is the usage of drywall shims (the 4′ long, 1.5″ wide cardboard strips) a regional/local thing? the reason i ask is that for the first time since moving to western north carolina a few years ago, i’m once again in need of these ever so handy items, but one would think i was inquiring about a part for a nuclear reactor in the local Blowes and Home Desperate this afternoon. they were a commonly available item in denver- is there a reason they’re not, or shouldn’t be, used around here?
i may need one of you guys to score some for me. thanks.
mitch
Replies
I've seen them on various remodeling shows, and in FHB, but i can't find them around here, either.
I usually cut up a bunch of 30# felt strips for the same thing.
never heard of such a thing.
must not be in my region ...
Jeff
Kinda like asking for sinkers in a lumber yard in Maine.
They usually point you to a bait store.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Soooooooooo, that's what happened.
I was working in NH once and the homeowner was the one who would run for supplies.
I sent him for sinkers. He returned telling me the lumberyard didn't know what he was talking about.
I always wondered what the deal was on that.
Pheonixboard, made by Fortifiber. Carlson Systems deals with them, so does Menards. Menards is the only box store I've ever seen them in. You might have better luck looking at a drywall supplier. If they look at you crosseyed, then it has to be regional - though that would baffle me.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
RW
It must be a regional thing because i was in grabber ( the drywall and screw supplier ) and they gave me the dumb look.... however I am lucky to be able to buy tarpaper type rolled shim stock from my builders supply so i have just been using that.
BTW i am in san francisco
james
What is a drywall shim, how is it used and what for?
Even the ho' depot in washington has them.
mitch.. gotta be regional.... never heard of them..
the only time we shim drywall or blueboard is around the rim of a tub or shower..
sounds like something that gets used a lot where you are.. but not here
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Some of you guys live a sheltered life.
Mitch if you have a problem getting them, let me know!
Lots of the old time rockers used to do the 2 shim on each side of a butt joint, one bay back. This would make it Ez-er on the finisher.
We try to do a Shim & Shave before we rock. Takes about 60-90 mins for a 1500 sq.ft. unit. Saves major problems @ the finish line!
hah... tole ya it was regional..
no such animal hereMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Could also be you guys don't have as many Hack framers as we do! Here it used to be anyone with a Dog & a Pickup was a framer, now all you need is a Green Card!
I've never seen them here either, not that they'er not needed<G>...try an archive search, and/or ask a real drywall supplier... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Home Despot stocks them here -- northern California.
They are commonly found in regions where you hang it horizontally. Thus easing the transitions at the butt joints. They work by furring out the studs adjacent to the studs where the butt joint occurs to create a trough. You really don't need them. It's not worth the trouble to find them if they are not readily available.
Well in all these years, it's a first for me as well. I suppose it makes sense. A good taper can work wonders though.
We also use them on wrapped DW openings were the King stud & trimmer don't match. Around door & window headers. We alway straight edge all cabinet & tile areas for flat. Three is the most we will use before something else is done. (like sawzall & new lumber).
Sure wish the production framers knew what a power plane could do for them. They also have a hard time culling the 2xs when banging the walls together. This would cut down on the shims used by 75%.
They're commonly referred to as "butt strips" here in the Pacific Northwet. Lots of guys use the strips you pull to seperate the two sheets from one another - double or triple them up.
Came back to ask - are there areas of the country where it's common to hang drywall vertically?
Edited 11/5/2004 10:14 pm ET by jim blodgett
nope... only time i've seen it vertical is when an engineer was looking for some additional shear strength..
used the corner sheets on an interior partiton for a racking panel....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I know it is regional. I learned construction in Denver, and went back to PA to help out my mom in the late '80s. Nobody had them, not even the biggest drywall supply house in Philadelphia. They didn't even know what I was talking about when i described the product. Ended up making my own; what a pain that was.
Far as I could tell, they don't strap their ceilings there like in New England, either, so it seems they would want the paper shims. "Finisher will fix it."
Bill
i would be forever in your debt if you could send me a bundle or two of them. email me thru my profile and we'll make the arrangements. thanks a bunch!!
m
Try C K Supply 1788-c Brevard Rd 681-8812.
thanks- it's right up the road. i've driven by it a hundred times but never been in. my ups guy recommended them awhile back for concrete anchors but i found what i needed at louis wms in hendersonville.
and i can add jennings hardware & lumber to the list of folks who've never heard of 'em before.
m
to expand on what's been said so far- the picture G80104 posted is exactly what i'm talking about. they're the width of a stud and a little thicker than a 1/16", maybe 3/32" or so, and made out of grey or brown cardboard pretty much like the back of a notepad or legal pad. usually come about 20-25 pcs to a bundle, if i remember correctly.
the really slick thing about them is that they're made in layers so you can split them if you need something a little thinner, or you can peel off more at one end than the other and make very precise tapered shims. say you want a 4' long shim that tapers from full thickness to almost nothing- make a shallow knife cut through the paper about 6" from the end, peel away a layer all the way to the other end, make another cut across the peeled surface about 6" from the first, peel that away, etc, until you have a very finely 'stair-stepped' taper over the entire length.
i learned to use them remodeling an old house. they're indispensible for getting the new rock perfectly flush with an adjoining surface- especially old lath and plaster, which is typically thicker than 1/2", particularly at the corners. they also rock (pardon the pun) for making perfect surfaces for tile under backer board.
THANKS TO ALL FOR YOUR INPUT!
m
That type of cardboard is called 'paste board' FYI.Â
EDIT:..same stuff as matches are made from thats why you can 'split' a match and get two fom one..an ol jail trick (G)
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.Â
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Edited 11/6/2004 9:24 am ET by SPHERE
"nope... only time i've seen it vertical is when an engineer was looking for some additional shear strength.."
I haven't seen it much either, Mike, but a few messages back someone posted a message something like "...in areas where they hang wallboard horizontally..." and it made me wonder if there were areas where it was standard practice to do anything else.
You just never know when you'll trip over something you've taken for granted all these years. That's one of the things I love about these discussions.
I recall back when I was about 17 hanging double 5/8th's on steel studs for a commercial job. first layer went vertically, next horizontal. Go figgure.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Since I tape and finish virtually all rock I hang, I hang it vertically. I'm 6'1" tall, and I don't need stilts to tape a 95"-high tapered joint. I do not understand why anyone would hang gyprock horizontally and create all those unnecessary butt joints...unless they just plain hate tapers or have a financial interest in a gyprock compound plant....
(That said, a lot of the rock hung by others around here is done horizontally. But I still don't understand it.)
And no, I can't get shims locally either. My local supplier gave me the same look he does when I ask for 1x6 T&G spruce. ('Huh? Whassat?')Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
I do not understand why anyone would hang gyprock horizontally
I think I know why....do the math.
If you boarded a 12' x 12' room, walls only and no doors, you'd need 50% more the amount of taping by hanging it vertically and there would be no butt joints! Think about it....hanging it vertically, you would have three tapered seams to tape, per wall, for a total of 16' per wall x4 =72'. That same room would be only have a total of 48' total if you installed the board horizontally.
You are substantially increasong your mud and tape requirements....and time!
If you boarded a 16 x 16 room the ratio remains the same.
Additionally, horizontal applications are superior for hiding minor flaws in the frame.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
I can tape and mud to finish a tapered joint in two coats, using less than one fifth the amount of compound than I need to do a butt joint. Butt joints have to be mudded three or four coats and go at least 20-24" wide before they start to disappear under the paint. And that's only if the rock hangers got the rock flush to start with, not a guarantee by any stretch of the imagination judging by what I see around here.
So, using your example, I still finish first and use less mud. And the finished job is flatter. A butt joint is always going to be raised, even if you can't see it because the taper took his time and used enough mud to hide the fact from the naked eye. Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Dino, in the examples I gave, there wouldnt be any butt joints. In most of the houses that I see hung horizontally, butt joints are rare...and in the larger rooms that will require them, they are often so tall that you'd have the same amount of butts joints anyways! These are the great rooms....212" studs, etc.
Also, if you are hanging the board your self, you would have an opportunity to taper your own butt joints by using your planer to create a dip in the stud that you land on. There are a few more clever techniques that I've seen in the FHB mag...
Vertical installations require 50% more taping. I'm not telling you to change...I'm just explaining why all the other hangers do it that way.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Remember Blue is doing a 12'x12' room with no door (guess he crawls in and out a window:-}). Throw in any larger dimension and the butts come in. I hate to fill up a dump with excess drywall dropoffs. I hate butt joints even more. I do mostly small stuff and try to figure which will be best for the clint, materials or labor. Almost always time and materials billing.
Rascon.....don't they ship 16' board to you?
I'm not saying it's wrong, but in my 30some years I've never seen one residential house hung vertically. They obvioulsy don't want to do 50% more taping either.
Before I would do 50% more taping, I'd split a 2x6 and install it about 3/8 in from the plate where I decided to land a butt joint. This "recessed" joint would easily be taped just like a tapered joint.
BlueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
I have not checked. I do not do enough to keep up. My lumber yard of choice only keeps 8 and 12. When we did our house I ordered it from a large drywall house ( the one I told Mitch about but in another city, Hickory). I farmed out the hang and finish, one of my better decisions. Should have withheld a few bucks as his touchup/sand guy left a lot to be desired and the main guy never got back to me. Knowing what I know now I would have skim coated a good bit of it. I got what I paid for though.
I usually only do a room or so and so far most have had many windows and/or doors for the size. I have watched some super tape guys and they make those horizontal seams look so easy and butts go well. I do not plan to do a lot of it if I can help it. It is quite different doing a whole house or large addition versus a small bathroom, etc. I sure as heck would not argue either way.
That explains things RASCONC.
ON smaller jobs, it really doesn't amount to a hill of beans if the taping is 50% more. On a whole house....it matters. On a little addition...it don't matter.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
The last little room I did was closing in a porch and converting it to heated space. It was on a slab over a bumpout basement workshop. I ended up with one full length vertical joint and zero butt joints. Managed to get all but that one to fall in a door or window.
Did another one a while back that was two rooms in an unfinished lower level, not basement. Brother in law and I did one and had subs do the other (it had ceiling rock), the room we did was covering up some really cheezy print paneling. We took much too long to finish.
Bob
Edited 11/9/2004 12:16 am ET by RASCONC
Hey Dinosaur, man, don't run off, okay? I want to learn some stuff from you.
You say you only use two coats on tapered seams? Tell me more. I get by with two coats (plus touch up) on inside corners, but I still need 3 plus touch up on tapered seams and butts. Would you mind explaining your process? Type of mud? Knife size? Type of tape? Anything else pertinent...
thanks
Jim, I use a 16" trowel for butt joints, but a simple 7" knife for tapered. On new work I use old-fashioned perforated paper tape, run one bead of standard pre-mixed NOT light gyprock compound in the depression, run the knife down the tape to stick it in place, and then run another bead of mud over that pushing hard to make it just a bit concave on the first go as possible.
Let dry 24 hours. No hot lights, no forced air. Just run the room heaters at about 80 F overnight and leave a window or two open a bit.
The next day, I scrape with a dry knife to knock off any lumps or zits, dip my knife in clean water, shake it, then run a very thin bead of mud down the joint. This fills in all the little moon craters and brings it up flush. Again, let dry 24 hours. That usually does it; a very light sanding might be necessary but most often not. If the joint is larger than my knife I just go to a larger one or use a trowel. So the edges are feathered in the making and don't have to be sanded much if at all.
Of course, this is all predicated on the rock being well hung. If the two sheets aren't flush to the same plane, then we're in a different ball game.
(...'rock being well hung.' Can't believe I actually said that, LOL....)
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Thanks for the insight Dino.
Lets see if I have this right. You use an ounce of dishsoap per box....you use setting (all purpose) compound...not light.. to bed it, and then cover using the same stuff? Then the next day you switch to lite. Do you add soap to the lite?
blue
Warning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
And you get a paint ready surface that way? You use the same mud for the second coat? All-purpose (non-lite) joint compound?
And you get a paint ready surface that way?
Sometimes I don't--Usually that happens when I screw up and have to pull the knife down more than twice on the second coat. If I'm a good boy and don't let my arm jiggle or vary the angle or speed of the pull, it mostly comes out good enough to paint with no more than an up and down or two of the sanding pad. Another thing I learned the hard way after too many years of doing it wrong was to take the time to wash off the knife and hawk completely every once in a while to eliminate those annoying little bits of semi-dried crud than can ruin the first pass with the knife. The more I have to work the compound on the wall, the lousier the final finish looks when it dries.
As to my choice of mud, yeah, I prefer regular non-lite compound; I guess my arm is just used to it. I find the 'lite' stuff has too many little bubbles in it plus I tend to squish it too much which doesn't help things any, LOL....
I've never worked with setting type compounds or added soap or any of those 'advanced' techniques Blue mentioned. Just an old Dinosaur after all. (But I did stop mixing Spackle out of the orange and blue box about the time HHH was VP, LOL....)
Here's a job where I hung and taped the rock on the new partition walls we built, and also had to finish some walls that had been hung and one-coated by the original builder four years earlier. The wall on the left has two coats on it and was sanded for a total of about 2 minutes. It's ready to prime and you can hardly see the joints. The original outside wall (right of that corner) had already gotten two more coats by me and needed another two (for a total of five) before I could sand and when I did, it took a lot longer than 2 minutes.... (Yes you're seeing light compound on that joint but the yard sent me the wrong stuff that day and I was too short of time to run over there to change it.)
View ImageDinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Well I'd sure as heck like to tape with you for a day or two, Dinosaur. I can't even get close to paint ready in two coats, and I sure as heck get smoother results with all-purpose lite than all-purpose. I think the all-purpose drys faster and harder, I like it for taping, but then I switch to lite for second and third coats.
Have you ever contacted an editor about your methods? It seems to me your system is unique in the way you hang, and tape. If the results are as good as you say, and I don't have any reason to doubt you, this is exactly the type of article idea they are always looking for. Basic skills that do-it-yourselfers will find useful, but many, many pros can get something out of too. Seriously, if you haven't talked to any of them about this, and you have an interest in getting published, I would think they'd jump at this.
Jim, you flatter me--but the sorry truth is, I hate drywall work with a passion that Prospero's censor circuits won't let me express adequately. Its only saving grace is that it's a fast and relatively easy way to cover interior walls and (groan!) ceilings with a paintable surface. And in spite of how beautiful stained and varnished woodwork is, covering all six sides of a room in nothing but wood just doesn't work very well on an æsthetic level in most cases. So gyprock has its uses.
My 'methods' such as they are consist almost entirely of understanding that (a) the knife or trowel has got to be WIDER than the joint you are pulling so it feathers the edges of the mud to the gyprock; (b) you've got to keep the knife and compound clean; (c) a small amount of water on the knife while pulling the finish coat will lubricate things so the surface is smoother; and (d) forced drying or laying in too much mud at once causes cracks, bumps, hollows, and all sorts of nasty sh!t you'll have to fix in a second (or third) rough coat of mud. If I'm so smart, LOL, why did it take me so long to figure those four things out? Duhhhh, cause I avoid it like the plague whenever possible....
One of these days I'm gonna learn how to do PLASTERING--now there's something that would be worthy of bragging about. In the meantime, I tip my hat to any skilled plasterer. And if there are any good plasterers on this forum I'd forward your suggestion to write an article for FHB to one of them. That'd make a really useful technical article that almost all of us could learn from.
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
(I think) It was either Ben Franklin or Thomas Edison who said "It takes a lazy person to invent a better way". True enough, huh? It takes someone who doesn't enjoy the work to say "there HAS to be a better way".
I wasn't trying to flatter you. What I said is true. The magazine is especially interested in showing EVERYONE not only "a way" to do common building tasks, they strive to show innovative ways. So while you might not realize it, I believe at least 98% of us still use at least three coats of mud for smoothwall applications (textured walls are a different story, but even they get two coats before they get textured).
No, I think you're onto something special there, Dinosaur. I bet lots of other folks consider their techniques "nothing special" and they are exactly what the magazine (and all us readers) could benefit from.
All my doors are well-hung!!!
Oh yeah you got Incoming!!
but he's a friendly!!
Big white haired dude, older than dirt, gotta nice doggie!
My dogs gave him an AOK (after a handful of milkbones).
Goes by the name of "Morty"
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Morty with Milkbones Incoming. Roger That....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
bed, there's a flaw in your logic. On a 12x12 room, if you run 3 sheets vertically on each wall, there's two joints, for 16 ft; running 12 ft'ers horizontally, its 12 ft, so that's only 33% more taping, not 50%.
However, if you take into consideration the whole taping job, each wall has a perimeter of 40 ft, so it's more like 56 ft vs 52 ft per wall, so the percent difference is smaller.
No one has yet mentioned the additional convenience of working with 8 ft sheets if you hang vertically rather than 10 or 12 footers if you hang horizontally. This is an issue for people working alone or with their wives!
Ditto!
Good math check Cairo!
Okay..it's only 33%. But...multiply that times 1000 sheets and it doesn't take a CPA to figure out which way I'm going to do it. It's much faster to finish those horizontal runs that are at the perfect height too.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
G8, what would a framer do with a power planer? If you were framing, would you carry one?
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
blue-
When I as building in Vegas, it was common practive to have a "straightedge crew" go thru the house just prior to drywall. The wood came on site straight from the mills most times, and dried out quickly as the frames baked in the 120 degreee heat. The really pretzeled stuff was replaced, but the minor bows and crooks were planed on one side, and shimmed on the other to get the walls flat. The straightedge crews tools consisted of 6' levels, sledgehammers, power planers and staple hammers for installing the cardboard shims that Mitch is looking for.
Like most East Coasters, I've never seen them here, but can think of numerous occassions where they would have come in handy.
Bob
You said >> The wood came on site straight from the mills most times, and dried out quickly as the frames baked in the 120 degreee heat. <<
So, some areas do not use kiln dried lumber - is that correct? so, perhaps what part of the issue is that the non kiln dired stuff is less stable and more likely to be out of wack by the time the rockers get there... Hence more need for shims... Matt
Well, the wood was KD, but that only takes the moisture content to <19% IIRC. The 10% humidity and high temps quickly take it much lower than that. I'm sure that has some effect on the need for shimming and straightedging.
Bob
OK - gotcha... BTW is framing lumber there in your part of the country SPF or something else?Matt
Bob, that sounds brutal.
I put a straightedge on every wall in every roof before I call it done. I have to "adjust" maybe 20 studs out of a couple of thousand.
You guys must have crap for lumber.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Blue,
I used to frame, & we always had a hand power planer on the job site. Was very helpful for cleaning up when the width of two pieces of lumber would not match. In the past I can remember 2x6 say 12' would be a different width then a 2x6 14'. Also have run into wood from different mills vary in width. Be it an 1/8 to 1/4 inch different.
I guess we hold a higher standard then most. We take pride in what we do. I have to date this year have gone from raw dirt to over 175,000 sq.ft of framing to finish. Everyday I see the effects of sloppy framing. I guess when you go from working on 30,000 sq.ft. Homes to 1500 sq.ft. Townhomes you to would become jaded by some of the so-called framers out there!
I guessing you have never done a Shim & Shave in your framing operation?
I'll repeat G8...you guys must have extremely crappy lumber out there..whereever you are.
If I ever run into a bunk of 2x6 that is anything other than 5.5", I'll just send it back. It hasn't happened yet in 30 years.
And no...I've never done a shim and shave. I do straightedge all the walls in every room and adjust any stud that will cause a bump or dip. A saw cut and a couple of spikes fixes it every time.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Man, I cannot imagine framing without one. That little Makita of mine has gotten us outta more trouble in less time than it takes to say 'That's gotta come down a full fat eighth'....
Flushing doubled studs and plates for the rockers
Shaving down the high spots in the floor joists to the stringline
Ditto on the ceiling joists
Fairing in any kind of curved framing
...and so forth. I can't even think of all the uses it's got.
The thing's been through hellNback; blades are all nicked up from hitting framing nails and it vibrates like a mother, but it still takes 3/32 off each pass just about as fast as you can push it down the board....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Flushing doubled studs and plates for the rockers
Shaving down the high spots in the floor joists to the stringline
Ditto on the ceiling joists
Fairing in any kind of curved framing
Studs and Plates: All doubled studs and plates are nailed flush. If a rookie doesn't nail the studs or plates flush, I point it out and he pulls all the nails and then he renails it flush on his second try. If I find another one not nailed flush, we go through the same routine...but with a warning....the warning? "If you nail another one out of flush, I'll fix it myself while you're heading down the road".
I don't remember ever asking anyone twice. I explain the importance on the first explanation.
JOist" We've never shaved down any floor joist. We use the bad crowned ones for rims (we cut them at the crown) and blocking.
Ceiling joists: same as floor joist.
Curved framing: we use power saws.
I own a power plane, but I've only used it for trim.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Studs and Plates: All doubled studs and plates are nailed flush. Your mill must turn out more consistent lumber than the average. Consider yourself lucky to be working in an area where all the trees grow straight and don't have any branches.
JOist" We've never shaved down any floor joist. We use the bad crowned ones for rims (we cut them at the crown) and blocking. Ceiling joists: same as floor joist. I guess you're not around to lay the finish flooring or hang the gyprock on the ceiling, eh? Not your problem. Sweet deal....
Curved framing: we use power saws. Like a Sawzall? Funny, when I use mine for that, the blade-wander leaves the piece with a tilted surface. But that must be because mine's only a DeWalt....
I own a power plane, but I've only used it for trim. Trim work is adjusted to fit with a low-angle block plane, a coping saw, and a very sharp knife. Last I heard, anyway....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Studs and Plates: All doubled studs and plates are nailed flush. Your mill must turn out more consistent lumber than the average. Consider yourself lucky to be working in an area where all the trees grow straight and don't have any branches.
Most of our lumber comes from Canada. It's not all straight and true but we carefullysave and use only the straightest linial on the top plates, while cutting the worst up into smaller pieces. We also use sverly crowned linial for bottom plates knowing that we'll eventually toenail it perfectly straight on the lines (we never build on slabs, so that might be an advantage).
JOist" We've never shaved down any floor joist. We use the bad crowned ones for rims (we cut them at the crown) and blocking. Ceiling joists: same as floor joist. I guess you're not around to lay the finish flooring or hang the gyprock on the ceiling, eh? Not your problem. Sweet deal...
I don't see your point. Our rought floors are flat when we walk out. Occasionally, joist will severly crown up during the drying process. I get a service call about once a year for these situations. We usually cut the offending piece and sister a straight one in. We would get backcharged (alot!) if we were delivering less than satisfactory floor systems.
Curved framing: we use power saws. Like a Sawzall? Funny, when I use mine for that, the blade-wander leaves the piece with a tilted surface. But that must be because mine's only a DeWalt....
No...we don't use sawzalls. I use my Makita. I so multiple passes...usually biting only 1/2" or less per pass. Sawzalls are much too slow even if you got a stiff enough blade with the proper set.
I own a power plane, but I've only used it for trim. Trim work is adjusted to fit with a low-angle block plane, a coping saw, and a very sharp knife. Last I heard, anyway....
I use all those tools for trimming too. The power planer was originally designed to put the bevel on doors but it's quite adaptable for many uses. You've obvioulsy found a great use for your framing techniques.
This picture shows a door trimmer stud not nailed flush...yeat. It's off less than an 1/8th. We typically stand all the interior pars up with the trimmers unnailed, then doing our final walkthrough nail all these up perfectly flush. In fact, in the section of the house that I just walked through, I "felt" several door trimmers that weren't perfectly flush and were already nailed. That means that the framer (it's the smoker with the speed square) needs to be reminded that flush means flush...not close. He probably is in the habit of nailing the stuff up while it lays flat on the floor...which produces an inferior product. I'll deal with this before the job ends.
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Okay, fair enough. I probably shouldn't have got so snooty, but it was late in the evening my time zone when I got to that message and I didn't resist the urge to answer right away. Serves me right to make myself short on sleep...again, LOL....
Different strokes...but I still feel the 40 minutes or so spent shaving down the high spots on floor joists--as shown by a string line--make our life a lot easier later on. Gotta understand some of my jobs involve exposed joists, so they are custom cuts of BC fir (3x8; 3x10; 4x12) and can't be culled the way 2x SPF stock can....
Gotta go make supper. Later, dude....
Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Blue,
Give me about 45 mins in that frame in photo #100 2624, & Iam sure everybody from the drywaller, tile guy, cab installer , Counter top guy ,etc. will be buying you lunch & dougnuts for years to come.
Edited 11/8/2004 8:27 pm ET by G80104
Good idea G8! I'll take you up on that offer. I love donuts!
blueWarning! Be cautious when taking any advice from me. Although I have a lifetime of framing experience, some of it is viewed as boogerin and not consistent with views of those who prefer to overbuild everything...including their own egos
Additionally, don't take any political advice from me. I'm just a parrot for the Republican talking points. I get all my news from Rush Limbaugh and Fox and Friends (they are funny...try them out)!
Well, I'm a GC in Denver. Done my share of rocking. You must know of Dry Wall Supply, Inc. 5860 Pecos, Denver, CO 303-433-6869. I couldn't belief your post. Ran out to the truck to see if the last bundle didn't have a company name on the wrapper. Sorry, already broken open and wrapper gone. Found a little book I haven't run across in quite awhile about learning drywall. Has reference after reference to using shims to true up walls after pulling a dry line for guidance.
I can give you any number of HD numbers here if you want or go the Dry Wall Supply route. I can pick up shims while there and ship a bunch to you. You buy the shims and pay whatever UPS charges--overnite if you want. I'm always spending way too much time in HD answering customer questions because the guys with the aprons only know that every week they move all rock and lumber from the right side of store to the left to confuse customers. Hugh M. Woods where is your pro desk when I need ya! I just called HD. Try SKU 577530 and UPC 073291104863 at HD. Bundle of 100 cost $10.95 plus tax in Golden, CO. Made by Georgia Pacific. Tyr
PS Home Depot has a website. http://www.homedepot.com
Mitch,
As Jim Blodgett said, they are called "Butt strips". Try asking around using that name. They actually are very common. Used during frame check, especially in areas for cabs.
Dez
Dry Wall Supply, Inc. 5860 Pecos, Denver, CO sure do- about halfway between the old keebler plant and the dump. in a few short blocks you went from taking deep fragrant breaths to holding your breath and trying not to gag...
m
i've explained to various store personnel what they are, what they look like, and what they do- i don't think using a different name is gonna help, but thanks for the info- it just doesn't appear they're used around these here parts...
m
Mitch,
Sorry, I was thinking a 'web search'.
Peace
since HD definitely carries them in some stores (that's where i usually bought them in denver) in some areas, maybe i can just get them to special order me a wad of 'em.
thanks a lot! if that doesn't pan out, maybe i'll take you up on your generous offer. i'm not in a huge hurry for them (ok, the back door surround- it replaced a slighter wider window- has been without drywall and trim since early march). i'll let you know.
ain't it weird how something seemingly so common is practically unknown in much of the country?
m
In a pinch I grab some plastic corner bead (drywall acsessories) and split them and get 2 shims each, just place them so the leftover corner goes around the studs corner...I use these in shower construction to allow for the pan thickness.
Scribe once, cut once!
They got them out here in California
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
When I gutted cracking plaster/lathe walls in my old house, I'd rip 2" strips of 1/8" hardboard and finish nail them to the old studs to bring the drywall flush with the door/window frames.
which is great if you need exactly an extra 1/8"- but as i described above, you can split cardboard shims down to almost nothing or use as many as three or four thick. they're especially useful for dealing with lath & plaster because it's often thicker near the corners and the floor.
and thanks again to all who suggested sources- a local supplier has actually heard of them and is tracking some down for me.
m