Replies

1. 
   Mooney | Jan 12, 2004 06:09pm | #1

   All electrical is roughed in only . Juction boxes out of view or accessability need to be tied in . All recepts must have wiring only in the boxes , or any opening that drywall covers . Once the electrical rough in is done and signed off by inspector , the job belongs to the drywaller . Dont install nuttin that will be in his way . When hes done the taper owns the job and he likes to fill up boxes , so its a good idea not to have anything in boxes but wire. Dats the law . :)

   Tim Mooney

1. 
   BillHartmann | Jan 12, 2004 06:29pm | #4

   "Juction boxes out of view or accessability need to be tied in ."

   There are suppose to be any. All junction boxes need to accessible without damaging any finsihed surface; ie you should only need a screw driver to get to it and to put it back the way it was.

1. 
   Mooney | Jan 12, 2004 11:06pm | #8

   There is not supposed to be any , but ,.. during a remodel they are sometimes done in attic chaseway.

   Tim Mooney

2. 
   England | Jan 12, 2004 06:10pm | #2

   It's better to make up joints prior to the drywall installation. Most inspectors require it. With the rockers using routers to cut box openings, having the joints made and pushed neatly into the back of the box, there's less chance of them hitting any wires. It gives the electrician a second chance to verify his job.

   Just my opinion though.

   John

3. 
   BossHog | Jan 12, 2004 06:27pm | #3

   Seems to me it would me much more difficult to cut out the openings for the boxes if the switches and/or outlets were already in them.

   You'd definitely have to go back through the building and clean all the drywall mud off the switches and outlets after the drywall was finished.

   Better to light a candle than to light an explosive.

1. 
   NickNukeEm | Jan 12, 2004 07:42pm | #6

   I've done it before as part of flood damage repair, ripped off the old dw and hung the new.  Used a Rotozip, plunging on the side of the recep with no wires connected.  Wouldn't recommend it though, not without killing the circuit.  Taped over the recep when mudding.  Turned out all right, but most of the time I remove the switch and recep's, it's just easier that way. 

   I never met a tool I didn't like!

1. 
   EricPaulson | Jan 12, 2004 10:04pm | #7

   You'all forgot to insulate!!!!!!!!!!

   Eric

1. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 13, 2004 04:20am | #9

   no wonder they always complain they're cold ...

   JeffBuck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

1. 
   hubcap | Jan 13, 2004 05:39am | #10

   trim carpenters before them painters mudbutt- yer outa order

2. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 14, 2004 01:43am | #12

   my painter  ... and me ... prefer to have him come in right after drywall ...

   to prime.

   Then ... we can decide how bad the drywall was .. and who's gonna touch it up ... of if it's a great job and all mistakes will go away with the magic of a coupla top coats.

   LIke the current job ... drywallers finished up in the morning ... my painter was ready to spray the primer on .... drywaller says he's pissed because the painter doesn't back-roll ... "like he's supposed to" ...

   he never does ... so we can catch the flaws ...

   and boy .. did we catch them on this one ...

   painter calls that afternoon ..says ya better come look at this mess quick ...

   longer story not as long ...

   the second crew of finishes just finished recoating the whole place this afternoon!

   Now it looks like it should .... $800 additional dollars later ...

   and the painter will be back this week to spot prime the new stuff ...

   might sneak in one top coat ....

   Then the floor .... then trim and cabs ...

   then finish paint.

   Great thing about my guy ... he's got rock steady cutting in hands ...

   don't care if all the trim is painted before hand .. or installed raw.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

3. 
   lkboatwright | Jan 15, 2004 11:08pm | #13

   So who finds the boxes that the drywallers covered and who cuts them out?  And why do they fill our boxes with mud? And why are all of my wires white now? or tan ? or blue? or whatever?

   I cleaned up my mess. The plumber did that .  And why isn't there a dumpster on this jobsite?

4. 
   Mooney | Jan 16, 2004 02:10am | #14

   Because the boxes are lined up in the joint at 48 1/2 from the floor normally . The tools are aoutomatic and they fill all holes in the way.

   The good news is that we dont charge for that extra mud. Its FREE. :)

   Tim Mooney

   Edited 1/15/2004 6:12:49 PM ET by Tim Mooney

5. 
   Sphere | Jan 16, 2004 04:01am | #16

   Tim, How can I keep the mud from cracking in my switch boxes? Two or more LIGHT PACKINGS? ..or should I wad up a ball of mesh tape in there?  I hate unsightly cracks in my switch boxes.

6. 
   Mooney | Jan 17, 2004 05:04am | #21

   At least you appreciate a well packed recep box , as you are one of the few that can  laugh about it .  

   Tim Mooney

7. 
   johnnyd | Jan 16, 2004 10:57pm | #18

   Joking aside, my switch boxes ARE centered 48" above sub floor, so if I contract out the taping, what should I seal up the boxes with to make the mud easier to remove for switch install?  Duct tape?

   Only taping I ever did was veritical sheets on strapping, so I didn't run into this.

8. 
   JohnSprung | Jan 17, 2004 02:26am | #19

   All seriousness aside, why not temporarily wire a small explosive charge in every box?  Let 'em rock over the boxes and fill them with mud.  When you come back, detonate the charges and install the devices.  Of course this would preclude the use of plastic boxes....   ;-)

   -- J.S.

9. 
   Mooney | Jan 17, 2004 05:06am | #22

   Dont worry about it , as it comes out easy enough with a drywall saw and knife .

   Tim Mooney

10. 
    mikerooney | Jan 18, 2004 01:18am | #23

      First rule of carpentry: Fack the Painter.

      First rule of drywall : Fack the Electrician. 

11. 
    wd | Jan 18, 2004 01:54am | #24

    I usually get my boxes stuffed with left over ins. or the scraps from the washable blue filters both easy to find.  You still gotta bust 'em out but the wires don't get caked with mud.

    ~WD~

12. 
    4Lorn2 | Jan 18, 2004 05:31am | #25

    I knew one electrical contractor, I think his father was in the upholstery business, who had a couple of egg crates full of foam rubber blocks sizes to fit snugly into single gang boxes. After rough in he would have a helper stuff the foam in the receptacle boxes. Kept mud out for the most part and, he claimed, gummed up router bits used to cut in around the boxes.

    Never tried it myself but I have considered it after getting my cables cut of flush with the inside of a box a time or two. Capping everything off and making all the cables live also helps. At least it does until the drywallers figure out they short it out once per circuit and they are home free to chew on the wires. Can't say I have seen any drywall guys smart enough, or the smart ones avoid the problem entirely, to figure out that they could just turn off the power at the panel.

    Of course I usually include a pull loop, within the 8" maximum slack allowed for Romex past the staple, to handle the aftermath of a router attack on my wires. Where I haven't I have frequently regretted it.

13. 
    Mooney | Jan 18, 2004 12:36pm | #26

    Its a wonder there isnt a war all the time .  The guys who have been around a long time take of the sparkies . I figgure there would be war if they didnt .  Some sparkies need a lesson too letting wires dangle a foot or so out side the boxes.

    Tim Mooney

14. 
    4Lorn2 | Jan 18, 2004 01:52pm | #27

    Usually both sides give a little and learn to accommodate each other. There are drywallers who I have worked around many times that are an absolute joy to work with. They know me and my work. I respect their work. I bust my hump to accommodate their needs and look after their interests. They return the favor.

    On the other hand sometimes we, they, get new people. After a few attempts at tuning them in back charges start to pile up. Even with hardened drywall contractors a $400 back charge for a single issue focuses the mind beautifully. This would not be an exceptionally large charge if I'm forced to fish 75' of cable in blind through several planes because the run was cut off flush and there was no slack available. Shortly after seeing the bill there is usually a heart to heart between the mud boss and the finisher that allows things to go more smoothly.

    I really can't remember too many cases, maybe a dozen or so over many years, that it even had to go that far. IMHO most competent tradesmen try to get along and mesh smoothly with other trades. Cooperative people are easier for everyone to get along with and make for a less stressful job. The work is hard enough without having to butt heads with other trades every day. Worse case a contractor getting a reputation for being difficult to work with can stifle their business no matter how good their prices.

15. 
    Sphere | Jan 18, 2004 05:35pm | #28

    We never had these problems till the router got introduced to cutting sheetrock..shoulda stayed in the woodshop where it belongs.  I can't think of a worse job site sound than a rotozip..earbleedin screams from those things..I use mine as little as possible..they are great for some things, but I've seen a LOT of things get really screwed up by a firsttimer with one.

16. 
    4Lorn2 | Jan 19, 2004 01:38am | #29

    My first reaction to the a router cutting my wires was outrage. Great. Now they are using power tools to tear my stuff up. The lousy, lazy bastard had used a tool better suited to cabinetry to try to save his sweat and he used it to screwed up my work.

    Later I learned that because the drywall was only 1/2 or 5/8" thick they need not stick the bit out much beyond this. Maybe an inch to allow the tip to ride on the box. At only an inch and seeing as my wires are tucked well back there is little chance of hitting my wires.

    I even found out that if the drywaller doesn't horse it he won't tear up the device mounting holes in a plastic or Bakelite box. If the drywall mechanic takes reasonable care a router can be used without too much damage.

    Of course I still cringe a bit when I hear the wallers run a router. Less so when I know that the people are good, and reasonably careful.

17. 
    Sphere | Jan 19, 2004 01:51am | #30

    luckily, the only time I have ta do sheetrock any more is for myself..I 'll take the time an saw the holes first..more zen like. lol...and probly I did the wires too.

    I remember a rocker zipping out a bath ex. fan..not a pretty sight after he got done..and my ears rang for 2 days.

4. 
   JeffBuck | Jan 12, 2004 06:37pm | #5

   electric is roughed in ...

    rough electric is inspected ....

   wires are coiled and shoved tight to the back of the boxes ...

   drywalled come in and do their thing ....

   which sometimes is nicking a wire or two that wasn't shoved tight back ...

   usually the painter is next ....

   electricians come back later to trim ....

   and then the final electrical inspection is done.

   Jeff

   Buck Construction   Pittsburgh,PA

        Artistry in Carpentry                

5. 
   Gunner | Jan 13, 2004 05:57am | #11

   Finish your electric after the painters are done. Everyone will be happy.

   Who Dares Wins.

6. 
   archyII | Jan 16, 2004 03:26am | #15

   In chicago your not suppose to pull wire prior to the drywall install.

1. 
   jonblakemore | Jan 16, 2004 05:47pm | #17

   A crucial point is Chicago codes spec EMT, the rest of the country for the most part is using Romex.  

   Jon Blakemore

1. 
   archyII | Jan 17, 2004 03:32am | #20

   You are right.  I never thought of romex since I can't use it.

7. 
   DaveinPortland | Jan 19, 2004 03:57am | #31

   If you install switches and receptacles in the boxes, the drywall folks will have to make the openings taller than normal to clear the palster ears on the devices.  This easily can make the openings violate the NEC code for box cutouts in addition to making the application of mud more difficult.  The 2002 NEC 314.21 states gaps not to exceed 1/8" for drywall , plasterboard or plaster walls.   Anyway, why would you want to spend extra time and money replacing all the devices a finish and painting crew can muck up as they hurry through your behind schedule construction job?   They don't have to clean up so why would they care how dirty they get your electrical work!!!!

   Keep everything as easy as possible for each craft and you will save yourself a whole lot of frustration!!!!!!

8. 
   mikerooney | Jan 19, 2004 05:39pm | #32

     On small remodels, our electrician often installs plugs and switches. When he does do this, he wraps them with electrical tape. When we rock, we place them horizontally in the box, hang the board, then reinstall. No routers here, obviously. It's convenient to have power and lights. Also, we've started to use old work can lights for some applications - run the wire to the general vicinity, then rock, then install. Easier to get critical layout and easier to rock.