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Dump trailer battery charging

seeyou | Posted in Tools for Home Building on August 28, 2007 02:24am

As any of you know that have dump trailers, occasionally you can get ready to dump and the battery is down. If I’m the only one doing the dumping, I’ve got a pretty good feel for how often I need to hook the charger up, but if others make a couple of dump runs or if the trailer sits for a while, I loose count.

I’m considering hooking up 2 runs of romex from my truck battery (+ & -)and hooking each to one side of a duplex outlet (color coded with cover, of course) mounted under the bumper. Then, my plan is to hook a lead from each side of the trailer battery to plug into the outlet as I drive to the dump. I’d use alligator clips to hook to the truck battery, and only connect them when the trailer is plugged in to the back.

Anybody see any flaws with this idea or have any improvements before I start wiring?

View Image

http://grantlogan.net/

 

“he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd” – sancho

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Replies

  1. Piffin | Aug 28, 2007 02:31pm | #1

    I don't know what the details are, but when I bought mine, they wired the truck and trailer so that when I am driving, it is charging the battery.

    This is fine in summer, except that I keep the truck running sometimes at the dump because for instance my current jobsite is only 2.2 miles away so not much charging time while driving.

    But come winter when the cold saps the battery and makes the fluid stiffer, I do use the trickle charger the night before making a run.

     

     

    Welcome to the
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  2. JLazaro317 | Aug 28, 2007 02:54pm | #2

    I'm not sure what plug you have on your truck, but there should be one prong on the truck that is either hot all the time or hot when the key is on. It should coincide with a run to the dump trailer battery. I had your problems when I got mine and realized one of the plugs was wired wrong or had a loose wire. No problems now. Just make sure battery is fully charged at home base after you discover your problem and make your first run.

    John

    J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

    Indianapolis, In.

     

    1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 03:55pm | #5

      I'm using an adapter from flat 4 prong (truck side) to 6 prong (trailer side). I don't see any sign of any connection to the battery from the trailer wiring. 

       

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

      1. JLazaro317 | Aug 28, 2007 04:10pm | #9

        With a 4 prong, there is no hot wire only rt turn, lt turn, brake lights, and ground. If your truck has the RV style plug or the 7-pin like mine then you have the hot wire. I would recommend buying a trailer plug for your truck that is hardwired into the harness instead of using the 4 prong adapter. Does this mean you also don't have your trailer brakes wired into the truck? I've had 70 square in my trailer from a 2 layer tear off and it pulled and dumped just fine.John

        J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

        Indianapolis, In.

         

        1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 04:30pm | #11

          Does this mean you also don't have your trailer brakes wired into the truck?

          No - it's not an off the shelf adapter. A local trailer repair place made it up for me. It's wired so the brakes work.

          Until recently, I had two other trailers that had 4 prong flat on them, so instead of changing the plug on the truck and adapting two trailers, the trailer guy rewired the dump trailer lead.

          I keep thinking, I'm gonna get a new truck soon, and put changing that plug out off. I'm pretty sure there's no provision to charge the battery built in to the trailer, though. I'll take another look when I'm around it.

          View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

           

          "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

          1. JLazaro317 | Aug 28, 2007 04:51pm | #14

            A little bit o' riggin'......I mean customization.

            Now I know how Kentucky jokes get started   ;)

            ......you guys probably make Indiana jokes, don't you?

            My truck plug is currently held on by a ziptie. I need to get around to making that bracket.John

            J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

            Indianapolis, In.

             

    2. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 04:22pm | #10

      Hey, I've got an Indianapolis story for you.

      I bought a forklift in Indy on Ebay a month or so ago. Went to pick it up with the trailer being discussed. On the way back (I was just getting rolling -almost to Shelbyville), I saw smoke rolling off the trailer. I pulled over and I had shredded a tire. Forgot to bring a spare. I call 411 for Shelbyville and went thru the list of tire dealers - nobody had a service truck.

      Called 411 for Indy and went thru about 10 listings before I finally got a guy that said he normally could help me, but he was a one man/one truck show and he was having his truck serviced. Be 2-3 hours. He gave me a number to call.

      I called the number and an elderly black (I assume) man answered the phone. After all those calls, I had my speil down pretty well and went right into it. When I got done talking the man said, "I'm sorry, sir, but I've been retired from the tire service business for 15 years. I don't even fix my own tires. But here, call this number ###_#### and they'll take care of you".

      I called the number and got a place called Petros. 45 mins later, I was rolling down the road again and they only charged me $75 for the road service. Highly recommend them.

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

      1. JLazaro317 | Aug 28, 2007 04:45pm | #12

        I still do my own tire repair when I can. In fact had to go get a 11R22.5 tire last week and mount it up. Petro's is very big around here as far as roadside tire repair. They do Semis, cars, etc. I did get caught in southern Indiana a couple of years ago on an atv expedition with 2 blown tires on the trailer on a sunday evening in BFE with no spare. We drove an hour without the trailer to find 2 tires and then drive back an hour to put them one. One royal PITA.

        Did you buy that lift from Kensar? I traded my lift to them a couple of years ago when I bought one from them. I usually don't trade anything but the price they gave me I thought was what I would ask if I sold outright.  A week later they sold my lift on ebay for $2k more. That taught me a lesson.John

        J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.

        Indianapolis, In.

         

        1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 05:10pm | #15

          Did you buy that lift from Kensar?

          No, I bought it from the original owner (Smock material handling) who'd replaced it with two newer, larger machines.

          View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

           

          "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

  3. JTC1 | Aug 28, 2007 03:25pm | #3

    You are proposing to use the Romex, alligator clips and duplex as a charging circuit for the trailer battery.  That is probably OK and will work over time.

    The potential flaw which I see in the proposal is as follows. At some point in time, the charging during the run to the dump will not be enough to run the dump lift motor.  Then you will try to operate the dump motor with the charging circuit still connected - a "jump" situation.

    Depending on the amp "needs" of the dump motor, it may or may not work.  I would obtain the amp rating of the lift motor and install the needed wire size to provide a good "jump" - the "jump" wire size will be larger than the "charge" wire size.

    12v systems require surprisingly large wire sizes to maintain voltage over surprisingly short runs.

    As a general rule, 12vdc motors do not last very long when run with low voltage.

    I have no idea what the requirements of the motor are, but if you could provide the rating of the motor (hp, amps, watts - can work with any of these, should be on the motor plate) and the length of the wire run from the truck battery to the trailer motor; I can look up the required wire size for you.  10% voltage drop should be acceptable, 3% drop is better.

    Jim

    Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.

     

    1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 04:03pm | #7

      Then you will try to operate the dump motor with the charging circuit still connected - a "jump" situation.

      Unfortunately, I've had to do that a few times (I carry 2 sets of jumper cables so I can jump off the truck battery if I get caught w/o a proper charge).

      I have no idea what the requirements of the motor are, but if you could provide the rating of the motor (hp, amps, watts - can work with any of these, should be on the motor plate) and the length of the wire run from the truck battery to the trailer motor; I can look up the required wire size for you.  10% voltage drop should be acceptable, 3% drop is better.

      The trailer's on a job site now, but I'll get that info later today. Mucho Gracias. I've got enough 12/3 to do the job. My thought is to hook all three wires up to each side and run two wires vs. running + & - thru the same piece of romex.

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

      1. User avater
        Luka | Aug 29, 2007 12:24am | #22

        Grant,I see the 'hillbilly engineering police' got to you already...Tell them to 'talk to the hand'.As long as you are careful about what you are doing, there is nothing wrong with engineering your own solution using what you have readily available.I have been considering something very similar to what you describe.I would run 12-2 or 10-2 romex from the battery to the back of the truck to run a 2 ton winch.All 3 strands for positive, all 3 strands for negative.Run the positive through a garden hose. Tie both runs to as many solid tie-down points as you can, to minimize movement, shock, abrasion and vibration.~~~Run the positive, first to a battery cutoff switch. Then from there, all the way to the back of the vehicle. (Better in the front than at the back. Because once turned off, the current is off for the entire run.)You can get one at an auto parts shop for about 7 bucks, or the identical same switch at harbor freight for about 3 dollars. Has a red 'flag' key. You insert the key and turn, and the battery juice flows. Take the key out, and the switch is turned comepletely off.~~~The negative is less dangerous, as long as it is kept away from anything that might have current running through it. If it abrades and grounds out against the frame or body of the vehicle, hey, that's a BONUS !!!;o)~~~At the back... I have been looking for some old welding connectors. Not the kind that are round. The kind I want are rectangular. It plugs in both + and - at the same time. It can only be plugged in, in one direction.Failing that, I will find some other suitable heavy duty connectors.~~~If I can find my connectors, I'll probably set this up so I have connectors available front and rear, both.In fact, I considered using welding cable instead of romex, and replacing one set of clamps on a pair of jumper cables, with the proper connector... So I could give someone a jump start on the highway, without having to turn around to face them...

        Yeh... That'll work.

        1. seeyou | Aug 29, 2007 01:48am | #24

          Hmmmm.

          I like that thinking. Pretty much what I had in mind anyway. That's why I come here and ask the pros........

          View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

           

          "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

          1. dude | Aug 31, 2007 09:01am | #25

            i put a voltmetre hooked to the trailer battery so as i am lifting the dump box i watch the guage to see how mutch the voltage drops which indicates to me how far down the the battery is

            also when the battery is at rest the voltage is indicative of the batterys current state of charge

            built the trailer 20 years ago and still going strong

        2. RFM 2 | Sep 10, 2007 08:36am | #28

          Romex¯ has solid conductors making it a very poor choice on a vehicle, make a harness using stranded conductors and route it in a manner that does not chaff the insulation . NM cable is not made for a vehicle harness nor for use as a extension cord.

  4. alwaysoverbudget | Aug 28, 2007 03:44pm | #4

    i keep thinking i'll check into one of those solar powerd trickle chargers to keep the batt  full. a couple weeks ago was tearing out concrete and hauling a load about 1 a hour,the solar charger wouldnt do much for you there. i had to charge about evry 5th load.

    last week got to the dump, no battery ,someone had removed it for me,you could of heard me talking in the next county as i unloaded it myself. larry

    hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.

    1. ANDYSZ2 | Aug 28, 2007 03:59pm | #6

      Yeah I hate it when the battery goes when I have a full load.

      Last time that happened the dozer guy had the maintanance guy come out and jump the trailer battery.

      Since the deisel has 2 batteries I am thinking about routing the longest thickest battery jumpers I can find from the engine bay thru the frame.Then put in a forklift battery coupling at the rear bumper and build a set of jumpers to plug into.

      ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

      REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

       

    2. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 04:06pm | #8

      check into one of those solar powerd trickle chargers to keep the batt  full

      That's an idea, but it still has to be set up and somebody's got to remember to set it up.

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

  5. User avater
    BillHartmann | Aug 28, 2007 04:49pm | #13

    I guess that on the back of the chimmey, where no one can see it, you use black pucky to water proof the roof/chimeny connection instead of step flashing and counter flashing.

    That is the equivalent of what you propose.

    First NM won't take the vibration. About the 3rd trip you won't have to worry about smoke from the tires on the trailer. It will be sparks from broken cable, follow by smoke, followed by a shopping trip to the dealer for a new truck.

    And use a connector designed for DC NOT A DUPLEX RECEPTACLE.

    Many auto parts places will have the right stuff. And lots at RV and Boat suppliers.

    http://www.iboats.com/Marine_Electrical/dm/category_id.5--view_id.5--dz.4534?kcid=marine%20electrical|862558699

    You can use a trolling motor connector, general purpose DC outlet or trailer connector.

    http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-hitches/trailer-electrical-connectors.htm

    And get a fuse or circuit breaker to protect the wires.

    http://hardware.hardwarestore.com/30-146-rv-electrical-.aspx

    Inline fuse on page 2.

    .
    .
    A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
    1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 05:15pm | #16

      And use a connector designed for DC NOT A DUPLEX RECEPTACLE.

      That's why I ask the pros when I don't know. Thanks for the info, I'll stop by the RV supply place and get them to hook me up.

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

      1. DanH | Aug 28, 2007 06:26pm | #18

        When we were kids we bought one of those (or got it for a cereal prize or some such). This would have been ca 1955. Had a fancy certificate indicating we owned one square inch of Texas.Have no idea where the certificate is now, or where the one square inch is, for that matter.
        So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin

        1. rasconc | Aug 28, 2007 08:35pm | #19

          Better hope the county tax guy does not find you.  Probably 10k in back taxes owed. (;-)

          1. junkhound | Aug 29, 2007 01:45am | #23

            Like Piffin said, you should have a circular 7 or 8 pin connector, it has a separate line for keeping the battery charged. All my trailers have the big connector for commonality.

  6. DanH | Aug 28, 2007 06:21pm | #17

    I wouldn't use romex and a duplex outlet. There are plenty of different automotive connectors available, and it's best to use stranded wire in any automotive application to avoid fatigue fractures.

    Also, it would be best to make permanent connections to the batteries (with plugs that can be used to disconnect when not neede, if you wish). An alligator clip can pop loose and short to something, creating more excitement than you'd appreciate.

    A fuse in the + line might also be appropriate, somewhere in the 20-40 amp range, I'd guess.

    So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
  7. Jemcon | Aug 28, 2007 09:59pm | #20

    Why not carry a jump box. You know, one of the ones to jump start a car. That's what we use at our camp ground. The battery is never charged on the trailer. works just fine. Dumps the trailer no problem.

     

     

     

    Headstrong, I'll take on anyone!

    1. seeyou | Aug 28, 2007 11:18pm | #21

      Why not carry a jump box.

      Hell, I've got 3 spare batteries all charged and ready to go. Problem is, I don't always go from where the spare batteries are to where the trailer is and I can only haul so much stuff. Not a bad idea, though.

      View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/

       

      "he ot the placed closed down whyyy thhhattt nnooo gooodddd" - sancho

  8. Kgmz | Sep 10, 2007 06:33am | #26

    You really need to wire this truck or your new truck right.

     

    And how are those brakes on the trailer activated with 4 wires from the truck?

    By the brake lights, I hope not.

    4 wires from the truck are normally wired like this:

    Green is right signal

    Yellow is left signal

    Brown is tail and marker lights

    White is ground

    Now either you don't have one of the lights hooked up or are using the white ground wire for the brakes and using the ball connection as the ground. Again I hope not and very dangerous if you have a intermittent ground connection when you need the brakes.

    You need to wire your truck with a 7 wire receptical and they make all kinds of adapters that will change it to 6 wire, 5 wire, and 4 wire flat connectors.

    A 7 wire receptical will give you all knds of options and has these connections:

    Green is right signal

    Yellow is left signal

    Brown is tail and marker lights

    White is ground

    Blue for brakes

    Black 12 volt source to charge batteries on trailer

    And the last wire which is usually purple and can be used for back up lights, another 12 volt source, or any use you need like for solenoid valves etc, to release gate or other things.

     

    You will also need to run a heavy wire from the truck battery to the trailer plug receptical, and a relay or isolator would be a good idea so that the truck batery does not get discharged when it is not running and the trailer is connected. And also do not use household wiring, get good automotive type stranded wire.



    Edited 9/9/2007 11:36 pm by Kgmz

  9. RobertLee | Sep 10, 2007 06:51am | #27

    I have a dump trailer and I found in the first winter the battery was very hard to keep charged and the hydraulics were so cold and stiff that it would drain the battery after one dump. I then connected the truck battery right back to the trailer and I had my garage install a plug in connector made for this application. Yes I run my truck at the dump when dumping but I never have to worry about a second battery for the trailer and is it charged or not. I have since changed the connection from a cheap plastic connection to a plug connection you would find on a 18 wheeler which is a two prong connection.

  10. seeyou | Sep 18, 2007 07:19pm | #29

    OK -the problem is solved.

    The guy that hooked up the cheater plug had the brake lights and brakes working off the same wire and had disconnected the wire to the battery which is why I couldn't find it.

    I got a seven way plug installed on my truck and the wiring corrected on the trailer. 20 mins and $26.50 later I was on my way to the transfer station. The battery was so low it wouldn't lift when I left the trailer place. Had a five min drive to the transfer station. When I tried to dump again at the TS, the battery was charged enough to almost lift the trailer to full height (I'd brought a spare battery to jump with just in case).

    Thanks to everybody. Should have asked this question 2 years ago.

    http://grantlogan.net/

     

    I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

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