ON tile backer board I have problems with mesh tape poppin gback up on outside corners. I bend them before hand but they still want to pop up. I embed them in a heavy mix but no luck. Any secrets.
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I have never seen them taped, are you using thinset? Vapor barrier should take care of any concerns. Correct?
Not a tile guy though, just a drywaller.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I learned the hard way that taping the inside corners with thinset and mesh tape, as well as joints, avoids alot of cracks at the corners. So I do the outside corners as well...but it is a pain.
I try to install the tape while I'm installing the tile.
Depending on your tile and the sequence of things on your job, this may work for you.
Harry
I've never seen outside corners taped, and I silicone caulk the inside corners, mesh tape the flats.
I fiberglass all joints...flat..inside and outside. Here's some outside corners fiberglassed taped on outside corners.View Image
The BBQ island top... Built the top with pressure treated dbl 3/4"ply with Hardie over that and thinset with fiber tape then Redgard then tileView Image
The shower window and bench seats on both ends of the shower (3 1/2' x 8 1/2')perimeter is all taped on the outside corners as well.
View Image
View Image
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
That roll of tape looks wider than typical 2" tape. Maybe the O.P. needs some wider tape to get more bite with the thinset to hold it in place. Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Nah...it's a regular ol' roll. He must be doin' sumpin' wrong. Maybe he's got too much of a gap 'tween the boards. CBU is 1/2" so why should there be any problem?.
Maybe he's putting it down dry first then mudding over it which is fine but sometimes it's easier to put a thin layer of thinset down first.
I like making my mud a hair thinner too for the tape so I can keep it good and thin/flat on my tape.
And who ever said they just caulk their inside corners....well...I wouldn't feel real comfortable with that. I've heard people do that on drywall as well but c'mon...ya know?
It ain't THAT much extra work to do it the right way...after all that part is just a grain of sand in the dessert in the grand scheme of it all.....Cracked corners down the line suck!
I even added Kerdi over my the mud floor and up over the two bench seats I installed. I had to stop myself from putting Redgard on my walls....LOL.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Edited 1/24/2009 1:26 am ET by andybuildz
Thanks for the input on the tapeing of OS corners. I'm the guy that SILICONES the inside corners. They use it in fish tanks, so it works for me. I would puts it's strength and water-proof ability against thinset any day of the week. My IS corners are tight enough that the tiles over lap the silicone, they will HOLD water, it's not a short-cut just a different method. P.S. Love the design of that shower stall with the window, cool.
The problem i have in my mind about silicone is that it stretches. That it allows movement. While it will hold things together it will flex more then cement.
To me...thinset and fiberglass tape makes the cbu one unit of the same material with no flexibility hence minimizing cracks in corners where they appear most often and which is the worst place to allow water to start rolling in through.
I mean...I know it's amazing what can hold things together. When I take walls or even sections of houses apart it never ceases to amaze me how things just don't wanna let go.....although it ususally does when don't want it to so I just play it safe with some overkill.
Matching siliconized caulk works great in the inside corners of the actual tile work b/c there is where you want some flexibility.
I could be wrong...just a dumb carpenter here : )
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Point well made and taken............
I myself was a bit stubborn here when somone that hadn't been tiling all that long I don't think wanted to run tile under moldings rather up to it. I guess I thought that was sort of being lazy but I actually tried it on this job and I'm not sure I'd do it any other way anymore. It is a lot more work b/c you have to add extention jambs to doors and windows that are already in place but the outcome sure looks a whole lot better imo from this first time I ever tried it after all these years. Never too old to learn...Old dogs CAN learn new tricks.
The only exception I'd say is if the casings are a good deal thicker then the tile.
See my post above with the picture of the outside of that shower I built and dryfit the door molding.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I tape every joint, like I said. Then find a matching color of silicone as well. Keeps everything tight and inpenatrable.
I lay down my mud, bury the tape and smooth it out. I just figured some one might have a trick to make the outside corners easier, that all.
The more I think about it, looser mud might actually hold it better than a thicker mix.
Hell, I am just glad to hear someone does it like I do...that makes me....average. I have moved up a notch.
thank you
Another interesting thing I just noticed....it's one thing to guess what it'd do but another to be an actual witness to it.
The showers I used Kerdi in a year ago or longer have ZERO cracks in ANY corners of the grout and thats on new constructed showers...new studs and all....no caulked corners...fwtw to y'all.
This shower I did in the pic above I went through ten tubes of matching caulking in all my inside corners. sure takes a lot of caulking even with my joints pretty tight.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
when U use the grout caulk in the gun, do U blue tape.
I've finally convinced myself it's worth my time and expense to lay the tape first. I tape both sides of every inside corner ... shoot for 3/16th wide joint. Sometimes more, usually not less.
I've found that I can even straighten a crooked grout line with a straight run of tape and caulk.
I've been grouting as close to the corner as I can ... get a little grout in the corner to act as caulk backer. If the tiles were cut a bit off and there's a gap ... I grout that.
Then ... after all grout's hazed and wiped ... very last thing I do is caulk.
had some helpers on a big job ... they didn't detail the corner grout as much as I'd like. The GC was "very concerned" about one corner. Said "hope the customers don't notice that" ...
I didn't say anything. Waited till he wasn't around ... taped and caulked ...
I pulled him back in later ... said I think I fixed it OK.
He actually thought I scraped all the grout out and regrouted.
All I did was run straight caulk over crooked grout.
original grout wasn't terrible ... but enough for someone looking for problems to notice. I never told the guy I simply caulked over it all.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I always think about using tape first but haven't yet. Reason being I think that when i remove the tape it'll pull some of the caulk thats dried to it and also leave a bump the thckness of the tape that pertudes from the tile. I ususally caulk twice. Fill the corners up on day one...come back a day or two later when I know it's dead dry and recaulk filling it to the surface. The following day i scrape off any caulk with a paint scraper that looks messy on the tile.
I have a problem in my head thinking about using tape for caulked joints. It'd be nice if you could pull it off right after you caulk but that just pulls the caulk thats stuck to it and makes it look messy.
I'll let you know how this shower caulking looks on Monday when it's dead dry before I start grouting. I think I used more caulk on this shower then any other in all my years...and the tiles were pretty close together.
This has been way to much work for one guy...hindsites 20/20....after over 30 years i still haven't learned. I just know I'm gonna get pissed if I hire someone to help me tile so instead I get pizzed at myself for doing it "all" alone.
too bad you didn't live closer...I wouldn't mind working with you. we could talk about Obama all day...LOL....ok ok...listen to Howard in the morning anyway...lol. Laughs are always a good way to start your day : )
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
the trick is to not tape too far ahead of yourself.
for a typical/ small shower I'll tape all the joints then caulk.
but ... it doesn't hurt to tape/ caulk /pull then move on.
I like to pull the tape right after I run the caulk.
real trick is to pull the tape from the wet edge of the caulk ... angle the tape coming off the wall so it pulls from the caulk first and tile afterwards if that makes sense.
for the right side of a corner ... I'll pick at it to get it started ... usually the tip of my utility knife ... and pull out to my right ... kinda down then out ...
makes for the tape folding over on itself ... and first point of release is right at the caulk.
also ... have some plastic grocery store bags and some paper towels handy ... as tape smeared with wet caulk is messy to say the least.
I also tool the caulk with my finger tight to the tape. So there's not a glob of caulk at that outside edge.
the other option ... hire a helper that can caulk.
I've had a couple, and my painter can run a full tube of caulk and not once have to use his finger.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I tape to caulk too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did a shower two years ago w Kerdi.The Kerdi stopped at about 72".I grouted the corners (instead of caulk).Where there is Kerdi,,,,no cracks. OK, maybe a micro crack here and there.Up near the lid where there is no Kerdi, I'm seeing various cracks.Looks like we are having the same results.Harry
Interesting...it's one thing for people to speculate but another for real people like us that actually did it and are still around to witness the results down the line.
It's like reading reviews for a product that magazine or even movie reviewers give....personally I look for the people reviews.
I do have to say this too....the one shower I'm talking about in my own house? I didn't use cbu behind it. i used "sheetrock"!...which is an accepted application by Kerdi....and still not one crack.
All the other jobs I used Kerdi I used Hardibacker under it with with fiberglassed seams under the Kerdi.
You stat to wonder how much overkill really is but I will say this.....I DO think it's important to fiberglass tape and thinset all corners and seams....I could be wrong but it's a strong feeling I get from all the different jobs I've done....and let me add this in as well.....I'm not a tile installer per se in spite of the miles of tiles I've done....I'm a reno guy so I see/do it from the ground up unlike a tile guy that "just" might walk into a room and get to cbu'n N tiling...
The bathroom I did in my own house a cpl of years ago
During my framing and plumbing
View Image
During my Kerdi and tiling work
View Image
During my footbench and Kerdi and tile work
View Image
Right before it was cleaned of grout haze
View Image
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Nice shower you have there!!I got the idea of Kerdi + grout the corners over at John Bridges. Thought I would try it on a shower (my own).I've always felt the caulk is the weak link in the whole system.As far as using painters tape to caulk,,,, I will second everything Jeff said and add that you get better at handling the tape as you do it more often, and it comes out effing mint. I can get grout and caulk in 32 colors from my local lumberyard (not all stocked, a week to order). The crispy, neat caulk job really finishes things off nice.Thanks, Harry
My tile supplier carries the EXACT color for the grout he sells me. Not close...exact!
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
thicker bed of mud?
I tape as I tile, or right before I tile ...
I lay a fairly thick setting bed ... set the tape, wrap the corner ... then smooth it down with the flat of the trowel.
then ... trowel on the setting tset with the notches and tile away.
corners should be mesh taped, not for waterproffing but to help avoid cracks.
outside corners are usually more of a pain than inside ...
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa