I just finished boarding the walls of a shower with Durock (cement backer board) in preparation for tile. I don’t much like working with this stuff: it’s heavy, hard to cut and drill, produces grit that can damage softer surfaces (acrylic shower base) and it’s hard to screw. They may have improved the formula a bit because I used a few pieces I had left over from an earlier project, and that was even worse, having a harder and rougher surface.
I know cement board is the preferred tile substrate, but has anyone discovered a better alternative? Denshield looks interesting. Has anyone tried it?
Al Mollitor, Sharon MA
Replies
Al,
I have used densesheld and still use it.... I know i will get a lot of flack over it here but if installed to GP's specs they will honor a claim for damage. that said... if installed to their specs water can not penetrate, this stuff is nice because it comes in the same thickness as drywall so transitions are easier. it cuts like drywall and i have been using it for about 4 - 5 years without ill effects ( and many of the places i have used it i am in and out of for additional work and all seems fine).
hope that helps a bit
james
but if installed to GP's specs they will honor a claim for damage.
Have you ever tried to make a claim ?
I'll bet 50 bucks if you could somehow convince GP that you had installed the product correctly that the best they would do for you is give you a few new sheets of the same stuff.
When you ask about your labor, well, don't say I didn't warn you.
carpenter in transition
tim,
I may be wrong but i think i rember seeing an add in FHB stating that they woud replace the assambly, or something to that effect.
james
thanks for the heads up, I'll have to look for it.
carpenter in transition
I got a piece of hardi , that I place in a five gallon bucket of water, two years ago. and it still looks good.
I use denshield and rather like it. (putting flame suit on)
I will however, almost always use cbu near the water table.
So if I do a shower, I'll lay up cbu to the 3' mark and denshield above.
I think ds is a good product. i keep all joints and opening tight and well sealed.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Denshield is great stuff. If for no other reason than it is so user friendly, it takes little effort to install it cleanly and neatly and make a happier worker do a better job all around. If it works as well as they say, all the better, but I don't treat it like it is anymore waterproof than cement board.
Try Hardibacker. Its in all Lowe's and Home depots now. Cuts 10 times easier than Durock. 1 score with a utility and it cuts like green board
beast,
I have also seen the hardi products in 1/4 ,1/2 ,& 5/8" but the vision of my guys hauling a 4x8 of that stuff to the third floor rear bathroom almost brings tears to my eyes, also dose it really cut that easily?? i cut some 1/2" with a special carbide scoring tool a rep gave me and it did not break so clean... cleaner than permabase but not as nice as the densesheild.
maybe i should give it a whirl again ( on an easy to reach bathroom )
james
James, I,ve only seen it in 3'x5' sheets. Easy to handle and i'm tellin ya...................I will never buy durock again. There were some large jobs that i seriously thought i was getting carpal tunnel syndrome from that durock cutting. Hardi gets my vote
Beast,
another thing i rember about the hardi stuff, screws did not countersink well in it.. even the nibbed ones. do they make a screw for it or is it only angular roofing nails for the install?
james
I have not use Hardi.
I see (fear) issues with adhesion of thinset.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric,FYII tried to remove a tile from hardibacker and the thinset was bonded so well the hardibacker tore up with it. The bond was stronger than the backer
James, screws are sold next to it on most shelves and they sink perfectly flush because the material is more fiberous than durock. The screw issue was actually a bigger complaint of mine with the durock. Problem solved with hardi.
I just did a shower with concrete board. Cuts like butter with a diamond blade (about $30) in the sidewinder.
Also I start the screw hole by drilling with a 1/2" carbide tip drill just to countersink the head of the screw.
Hope this helps
Any area that's gonna get wet, I use Durock or Hardy. I've used Denshield, but only under tile floors in other-than-bath areas.
The first batch of it I bought (about 3 years ago), was about 40 sheets. It set on a trailer, all shrink-wrapped and tarped, for about a week. A storm front came through and a small corner of the stack got wet where the tarp had a small tear.
The five or six sheets with wet corners were indistinguishable from any ordinary drywall that might have gotten wet. The damp portions were crumbly and unuseable and we used those sheets for cutouts. I don't need that performance behind a custom shower.
Durock and Hardy have been good to me. Thinset bonds well to both. Neither are difficult to cut if you have the right tools. If you're not into diamond blades or shears and such, a worn out sawzall blade goes through Durock pretty slick with minimal dust.
As far as I'm concerned, they can take that itchy, fiberglass laden Denshield and sell it to North Korea.
Someone anticipated flames.....that was mine. (And I'm feeling mellow tonight).
I gave up Durock for many of the same reasons, and use Hardibacker and as the others have said available in 1/4" & 1/2". One good point it is waterproof, not water resistant like Durock, and although I still put 15lb tar paper behind I'm for as many waterproof layers as I can get in a shower.
The 1/4" cuts fairly clean with a carbide tipped cutting tool and a snap, much like sheetrock, the 1/2" is best with a saw.
http://www.jameshardie.com/backerboard
This is the link to their products, and seems pretty available in my area.
I have been using the 3x5 Hardi Backer, both 1/4 and 1/2. Size is easy to handle, cuts well with a score or with a fiber cement blade in my circ say. I use the Rock On screws that sink well into the board. Very happy with the product. I will NEVER hang another Wonderboard again!.
Brian.....Bayview Renovation
I forget the name of the company and I'm sure someone in here can spell it cause I cant but if you google DITRA you'll find a surprisingly good alternative
Be well
a...
The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
Thanks, Andy!
Ditra for walls? I'm aware of their membranes for floors, but I didn't know they had a product for walls. (I was thinking mainly about shower and tub walls in my original post.)
Al
Thanks to all who responded. I'll be talking to my tile installer in the next day or two (I hope!) and I'll get his take on HardiBacker. I've seen the Hardi product in the stores, but haven't tried it yet.
Al
Mojo
I'm not thrilled with Hardiback mainly because its just a small face surface that makes it waterproof....Might work forever,,,,,don't know cause I aint been round for ever even though it feels like it...lol.
O like Wonderboard with 15 or 30# felt behind it.....I'm probably just paronoid but a cement board is a cement board and you can use that stuff outside in the pouring rain....
HArder to cut but how much cuttin' is there really?
I only suggested going to Google Ditra cause you'll pull up a site that probly has stuff for walls and I'm very impressed by them!!!
Be well....have a relaxing Sunday
a...The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.