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Discussion Forum

Dust colector ducting

floor sweeper | Posted in General Discussion on May 29, 2006 03:53am

After years of rolling my delta dust collector around to individual machines I would like to finally make it a stationary system and duct it through my shop.

My question is, can I use PVC pipe, and do I need to ground the installation to prevent dust from static detonation.

 

It would be connected to my robland combo, delta table saw, floor trap for sweep up, chop saw, and lath none of which are used every day.

 

 

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Replies

  1. User avater
    BillHartmann | May 29, 2006 04:23pm | #1

    Yes, you can use PVC.

    If you have a dust collector that you can roll around you don't have enough suspended dust that it can explode.

    Now large industrail system where they are contiously machining MDF can have a problem.

    1. floor sweeper | May 29, 2006 05:09pm | #2

      Thank You Sir

      Now I get to get off me bum and doit. 

  2. User avater
    gdcarpenter | May 29, 2006 10:23pm | #3

    Have dreamed and studied for someday having a built in dust collection system. A lot to it to do it right. Are you using it for chip collection or dust collection? The fine dust is the most hazardous but requires a 'better' system to collect it.

    In any event grounding a PVC system is strongly recommended to prevent static electricity possible igniting the dust. Be mindful that PVC gets brittle with exposure to sunlight, but it does have the lowest coefficient of friction.

    Sewer and drain pipe is the most recommended. Some dust extraction equipment suppliers sell larger radiused elbows designed for sewer and drain pipe to reduce friction. Sizing of the pipe diameters, run lengths, impeller size and cfm rating etc is important to overall effectiveness, but somewhat controversial as to which design criteria are best.

    Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

    1. floor sweeper | May 29, 2006 11:26pm | #4

      gdcarpenter

      My shop is here in my garage original 20'x20' with a 12'x16' bump out, my machinery consist of the robland combo (planer jointer shaper table saw and xy axis mortise table) a delta unisaw, general lathe, delta chop saw with sawhelper fence and    stand delta disc belt sander combo, powermatic drill press, delta band saw.

      I would duct the saws, and lathe (what amess maker) the ducting would be indoors

      the bigest branch is 4" to the combo, unisaw and floor trap, pretty sure my main branch measures 6"

      to much info, but its fun to brag alittle. How is the system grounded?

      Mike 

      1. User avater
        gdcarpenter | May 30, 2006 07:56am | #14

        Run bare ground wire from machine to dust collector, wrapped around and fastened to PVC. Best book I've found so far is:Completely revised and updated WOODSHOP DUST CONTROL - The Taunton Press
        A complete guide to stting up your own system, by Sandor NagyszalanczyorControlling Dust in the Workshop, by Rick Peters.
        Sterling Publishing Company., Inc. New YorkLet's not confuse the issue with facts!

    2. floor sweeper | May 29, 2006 11:30pm | #5

      Got carried away let me answer your first ? i do a little of both sometimes its all hardwood sometimes its all mdf,particle bd. but its on a very small scale only geared up when the job requires me to, most work is out in the feild. 

  3. arcticcat | May 30, 2006 01:17am | #6

    I hooked my system up a few years ago, all of it with PVC pipe.  Seems to work just fine.

    I ran a grounding wire through all the pipes as recommended.  After about two years of use, I realized that I never hooked the wires up.  :)  No explosions yet.

    Mike

    1. floor sweeper | May 30, 2006 02:02am | #7

      do you run a bare copper conductor through the hole system or just occasionally pop through every 3,4,5 ft.?

      MikeL

      I saw you are from Minn. My aunt and uncle lived in Akin on 300 acres finally got a chance to pay Her a visit ,He had passed, what a beautiful area. Fished everyday!

      Still am dying to see the boundary waters! 

      1. arcticcat | May 30, 2006 05:50am | #12

        I ran the wire through the whole system, just popping out at each machine.  That is what I forgot to hook up.  I glued some of my fittings, but left certain ones unglued in order to have access in case of a clog.  Has only happened once or twice, from little slivers of wood getting sucked down beneath the table saw blade and getting hung up on the wire.

        Actually, one of my favorite features of my system is a piece of flex hose hanging down from the ceiling over the table saw blade.  Catches most of the chips/fine dust that come out the top of the blade.  I have a hook on the ceiling when I need it out of the way.

        Mike.

  4. User avater
    McDesign | May 30, 2006 04:33am | #8

    Long reply - here's my experience.

    After some diddling around, I finally had Onieda Air Systems do the design (heavy gage metal) for the overhead dust collection sysyem in my small shop.  I bought their cyclone; used it to feed my Reliant 2-hp roll-around; used Onieda big bags.  I read all the pros and cons about PVC vs metal; I decided metal just looks cooler!

    I put the Onieda bags (they lie horizontally on the floor) and Reliant fan in the attic of my attached garage structure; I only empty the bags every 4-6 months - the cyclone dumps nearly EVERYTHING straight down into a 45 gallon bin in the corner of the garage.  With my planer at full chat, I can fill up the 45 gallons in 7 minutes and drop maybe a cup full on the floor.  Dust is nonexistant.

    I also got a little pocket remote, and I use all manual blast gates.

    I have the Delta air cleaner; have it mounted edge-wise 2/3 up and 1/3 along the clear wall to encourage circulation.

    The main trunk comes in along the ceiling of my 22' square shop, drops down immediately for lathe, floorsweep, and a non-specific leg; down along the center for my Unisaw and 6" jointer, and continues on over to the radial arm saw and bandsaw on the far wall.  Transverse branches go to a large overhead quick-connect for a Belsaw planer, and a left and right non-specific leg on each side wall.

    I find I don't use the floor sweep; I keep the shop so dust free I hate the dust settling that comes from sweeping!

    The one thing I want to add is a counterweighted arm that will come down over the table saw blade to pick up fine dust ejected, like an Excaliber arm, but not be in the way the rest of the time.

    I can't get over how well it all works, and it didn't cost the earth.  I had dusty shops for years, now I'm proud!

    Forrest

    1. floor sweeper | May 30, 2006 05:16am | #9

      I've got a delta dust collector ,sits on top of a fifty five gal drum with a large bag clipped on for fine dust.

      Can one set this on the top of an Onieda cyclone ?

       

        

      1. User avater
        McDesign | May 30, 2006 05:39am | #11

        Possibly - my dust collector fan goes clockwise, and the cyclone goes CCW - Onieda said best to separate them a few feet to keep good swirl in the cyclone; I shouldn't stack mine.

        Forrest

      2. User avater
        McDesign | May 31, 2006 02:59am | #16

        I took some pix tonight of my chip system.

        View Image

        Here, the ducts go overhead and thru the wall at the upper center.  Note the Delta dust collector placement - swirls the room nicely.

        View Image

        Here is the other side of the shop; the overhead blast gate picks up my planer when I roll it out.

        View Imagex

        The thru-wall dust is on the left, goes to the right to the cyclone - up to the fan and bags.

        View Image

        The fan and bags are in the attic.

        Forrest

        Edited 5/30/2006 8:00 pm by McDesign

    2. nikkiwood | May 30, 2006 05:24am | #10

      There's been a lot of discussion about potential fire problems with plastic pipe.Sorry I can't give you the link, but some reputable engineer did a big test acouple of years ago and found that there is no explosion danger with using plastic pipe in a home shop situation -- even if it is not grounded.If you send them a sketch of your shop, Oneida will design your DC system without charge or obligation (to buy their equipment).I have a Jet based system, but if I were doing it again, I would buy one of the smaller cyclones from Oneida.********************************************************
      "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

      John Wooden 1910-

      1. caseyr | May 30, 2006 06:40am | #13

        There is a rather extensive writeup of how to do a dust collection system at:
        http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Ducting.cfm#Static%20Electricity
        I haven't had time to read it, but the following is an excerpt, which is followed by some suggestions for better way to ground the system:"There is always someone who will bring up the concerns about duct static potentially causing an explosion when you use PVC pipe. PVC pipe is an excellent insulator that will build up a static charge, particularly in a dry cold climate. Although that charge can shock you, the experts say it is not ample to cause an explosion in hobbyist based systems. Dr. Rod Cole wrote an excellent article in Fine Woodworking that debunked the static myth with PVC pipe. He also posted that article on a woodworking forum and gave me permission to include a link to his article. If you are still concerned, go read his information. Dr. Rod Cole has some excellent additional information on grounding PVC on his site: Dr. Rod Cole on Grounding PVC (Click here)."Explosion or not, getting a good zap while next to a sharp blade or cutter can be plenty dangerous, so if you live in a dry climate and chose to use PVC, you might want to seriously consider grounding your ducting. Running a single grounded wire around the outside of your PVC that also attaches to the metal coil spring inside your flex hose helps if you ground that wire both at your machine and your blower. However in dry climates, static can be a real pain around tools and doing a better job of grounding your dust collection piping is worth doing. As I said before most grounding approaches do not work well at all and often lead to plugged pipes."

        Edited 5/29/2006 11:41 pm ET by CaseyR

        1. nikkiwood | May 30, 2006 04:13pm | #15

          thanks for providing the link to Bill Pentz, who is considered one of the reliable sources on DC among many of the cabinetmakers over at Knots.********************************************************
          "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

          John Wooden 1910-

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