just picked up an old table/desk (free from Craigslist). I’m going to use it in my garage as a work table for stained glass, so I’m not looking to refinish the entire table. the top is made of oak veneer plywood, looks like it may be very early plywood. 1 1/4″ thick, the core is soft wood and the outer layers are 3/16″ oak veneer. it’s not a full sheet of veneer, but 6″ wide strips. i want to strip the veneer from the top, paint it and then use lacquer or epoxy for a finish. anyhow i have 2 q’s, 1st, has anyone seen plywood like this? 2nd and more importantly, opinions on lacquer vs epoxy ( remember this isn’t a fine piece of furniture). where can i get the lacquer and or epoxy? i assume lowes, hd don’t carry it. i live near Chicago.
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Bag,
you should resize those pics so all can see. i opened them and they were blurry anyway, so I am not sure anyone will be able to see what you are describing.
You want to strip the veneer or the finsih from the veneer?
Google irfanview.
"When the spirits are low, when the day appears dark, when work becomes monotonous, when hope hardly seems worth having, just mount a bicycle and go out for a spin down the road, without thought on anything but the ride you are taking." — Sherlock Holmes, 1896
If you strip the veneer from one side only, the stack will lose its symmetry and could warp, ... possibly badly.
Lacquer is vulnerable to all sorts of solvents. I wouldn't use it for that reason, alone.
Epoxy is available at HD and Lowes. It can also be obtain at your local boat yard, surfboard shop and even some auto supply stores.
Does it have to be epoxy? Why not polyurethane or polyester?
Edited 10/1/2009 7:49 pm ET by Mike_Mills
most of the veneer on the up side is warped and lose. top looks pretty straight. do you think it will effect it that much if i took the rest of the veneer off? will the epoxy help stabilize it? i just like the look of the lacquer/epoxy. also there is a piece of trim around the edge of the top to hide the edge of the plywood, i need to make up the 3/16" for the missing veneer.
It's notreally ply wood then..it's a lumber core panel with oak face and maybe a lesser qual. balancing sheet on the bottom. Pretty common actually. Many I've seen or dismantled had CHESTNUT as a core, remember, way back when it was a secondary wood due to it's plentifulness.
I've had the face veneers get wet and curl off, ( Hide Glue) and wind up with a still nice top...but the grain matching or quality of figure is never considered, so it may be ugly.
Belt sand it to get the old whatever off, maybe try a scraper first if it gums up the belt. It probably is shellac, and a good drenching with alcohol soaked rags will dissolve most of it.
Then paint away if thats your desire.
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i want to strip the veneer, paint the substrate, then lacquer or epoxy. hopefully these pics are better.
Let's try this:Looks like an old library table. The legs taper inward which seems a little odd to me, they usually taper out at the bottom.
Edited 10/1/2009 7:25 pm by Stuart
Thanks.
To the OP.
That'll lift off witha wide putty knife , maybe employ a hot iron to melt the hide glue. Or Mucilage. DO NOT use the wife's GOOD Iron. Go to goodwill or salvation army and buy an old clunker.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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ha ha, my wife and iron don't belong in the same sentence. she would never know if i used her "good iron". LOL
Looks like a nice table. How about replacing the damaged veneer with another?
6bag, I have that same table, found it left in a rental. Inside the drawer has a tag "Desks Inc NY." I had it sitting in the wood pile, and one day I used refinisher to strip the old finish and the old thing just came alive! The veneer is a gorgeous quartersawn Oak, but is really thin, so it cannot be sanded. Too bad yours is beat up so badly.
well i think i know what to do. attach a new piece of 3/4" BC plywood to the top. that way i have my work table, and i also have the option to refinish it some day. i really do like the lines of the table, and would like to have it in my house some day.
Thats the best idea yet, it is a nice table.
What you could do is run the new plywood larger that the current table top & fasten cleats to the bottom of the new plywood & place it over the old top, it will keep your work top from slideing & not leave any holes in the old top for later repairs. No one should regard themselve as "God's gift to man." But rather a mere man whos gifts are from God.
If I knew how to post photos here, my table might inspire you!I was a little confused about the 3/16 inch veneer thickness in your first post. Did you mean something more like 3/64th?
Edited 10/2/2009 3:23 pm ET by Pixburd
no, veneer is 3/16" thick. if you scroll down in the reply box, there is an option to "attach files".
I did look at the other pix 006.gif and noticed the thick edge banding on your table. That is different from mine. Is the top veneer also 3/16 inch?
+1 to putting on the 3/4" ply top. It is, after all, a 'sacrificial' top, what with nails and scraping and flux and stuff on it when you're doing glass work. That was my trade for 25yrs.View Image
Laquer is easy to spray but has it's own issues.. I used to do a lot of laquer but lately I've fallen in love with shellac.
Here's why!
shellac is used on all fine furniture and other wood restorations. Nothing brings out the beauty of wood better.. The finest Violins use shellac!
Shellac is also really easy to do a great runless finish with if you follow my instructions..
Shellac can be patched or repaired invisably without any sanding.. So easily that you might want to do repairs in a tuxedo and use words like Abbra Cadbra Alakazaam.
Shellac is safe. Safe enough to eat.. you've been eating shellac all of your life. It's on most pills and candy..
If you spill shellac on your clothes just wash them.. It will come out!
Shellac is also tough! unlike most poly's, urethanes, laquer etc.. it resists scratches and if scrtached can be easily repaired without sanding, often without using any more shellac.. My 150 Pound dog hasn't managed to ruin my wood floors yet and he absolutely refuses to clip his claws (or let anyone else clip them)
Shellac is very tough. You can spill water on it and if it doesn't sit on it for more than several hours no damage will result.. If damage does occur invisable repairs are extremely easy with no sanding..
Interested in learning how to do an easy job without runs?
Violins= VARNISH. At least the Highest quality ones.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I'm sorry you are simply wrong!. Only cheap violins will use varnish.. Deadens the tone.. Violins lose brillance with varnish..
You are FOS. Stradivari made his own Varnish.
And I am a past member of A.S.I.A. (Association of Stringed Instrumant Artisans) as well as a certified repair center for Martin, Gibson, Kaaman, and Ibanez, Fender and Guild Guitars.
STFU about that which you know NOTHING. Shellac is TOO BRITTLE to use on a QUALITY Spruce SOUND BOARD.
ETA: Brilliance isn't of any use in this context either, you are clueless about the desirable tone.
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Edited 10/3/2009 6:08 pm ET by Sphere
Read up before you try to blow smoke up my butt.
One of the most widely known theories is that the secret lies in a special kind of varnish used. Scholars from Cambridge University used electron microscopy to identify many of the ingredients of the varnish itself and the materials used to smooth the surface before the varnish is applied (1). They concluded that most could have easily been bought from the pharmacist shop next to Stradivari's workshop and that there is no convincing evidence to support the idea of a secret formula. Joseph Nagyvary has a slightly different take on the varnish issue. He claims that the local lumberman and the local apothecary simply happened to supply Stradivari with the ideal wood and perfect varnish; the production of his magnificent and extraordinary instruments was just a lucky accident (3).
The secret to producing such amazing tonal quality, he claims lies in the varnish. Nagyvary proposes the idea that the insect-repelling mixture of "salt of gems" (which are finely crushed crystals) and borax that the Cremonese violin makers used as varnish is what fossilized the wood to a perfect pitch (3). He believed that the violin makers treated their wood with mineral solutions, which is not a far-fetched idea, as the alchemy books of the time had plenty of recipes for mineral-rich wood preservatives used by furniture makers to protect chairs and tables against damage from insects and general rot. Salt of gems was commonly used as well to add stiffness to the wood and make the finish glitter. Nagyvary's idea is that the accidental chemical reaction of phosphates and wood lifted Stradivarius's violins to a whole new level.
The finish of the most pristine of the surviving Stradivarius instruments has a brittle, almost glassy look. If Stradivari's varnish contained sugar or a polysaccharide, the molecules would have attached to one another and to the wood, stiffening it so it could vibrate more efficiently (4). Fruit-tree extracts were widely used in wood varnishes as well, and Nagyvary claims that the pectin creates polymers which continue to add to the superior brilliance of the Stradivarius tonal quality (3). Unfortunately, ultraviolet photography has revealed that many fine-sounding Italian violins have lost almost all their original varnish. These violins were recoated during the 19th century or later (1). Therefore, the composition of the varnish may have had little to do with the overall superior tonal quality of the Stradivarius violins.
FROM: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1860Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Is that a "quality violin" enough for ya?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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After reading your post, I think it is good to remain acronymically challenged. ;)
Thats the beauty of acronyms, you can use your imagination.
Disspelling BS in my trade is as important as doing a good job in my trade, so some one doesn't destroy something of value and bring it to me to salvage, because some know-it -all or nothing espoused it on a public forum.
"whoops, that was amillion dollar violin I just trashed, and that guy is not gonna be held liable for me stupidly following his advice...." Believe it or not, I've seen similar happen.
It took me years to get authorized to repair certain makes of stringed instruments, and I can't stand back and idly watch the carnage that can ensue when BS is taken as gospel.
And I REALLY hate it when Frency tells ME, I am WRONG. But do love, showing him just how wrong he actually is when he starts his preaching about the miracle of shellac.
Carry on, it has it's place...just pointed out where it doesn't. For a desk? Yeah..shellac till ya bleed if thats your happy place.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Holycrap, Frenchy! You mouthed off about stringed instruments to the wrong guy! Stick to the shellac tales.View Image
Sphere, And why would someone want to shellac a desk top? A cold glass of beer would mess it up in 10 minutes.
try it.. another myth.. you need to leave water in contact with shellac for hours to turn it white.. then it takes but a few minutes to do an invisable seemless repair. That's possible because new shellac melts into old shellac.
If you believe it's because of the alcohol you really don't understand much about beer..
100 proof alcohol is 50% water.. it takes 200 proof to be pure alcohol..
Now depending on the alcohol content of the beer you split you may have over an hour to wipe it up before any change occurs..
By the way why are you spilling beer Are you really that much of a sloppy drunk?
"By the way why are you spilling beer Are you really that much of a sloppy drunk? "
Boy , you get testy when proven wrong and lash out like a rattler. And you can't find a job, even selling shellac..I wonder why?
I am grateful that I wasn't one of your sales calls if I was considering a man lift or telehandler, your obnoxiousness would have had you limping back to your truck. Why do feel belittling people is the way to convince them? Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I sorta doubted Frenchy's statement about using shellac on instruments especially violins so I did a Google search and not in one site do I see the word shellac used.http://www.giannaviolins.com/Information/Varnish.html
http://www.artisanviolin.com/restorat.htmlInterestingly enough my best friend Ben bought a new cello a year or so ago that you probably wouldn't know too much about being it's a new technology their using now. Even Ben was sceptical until he went to the artisans studio, sat down and played it. He was blown away.
It's not wood...it's some sort of resin.
BTW...Ben was the first cellist for the Houston Symphony Orchestra and teaches music to kids in NYC at their school.Ben's main cello is worth over $200,000 and he claims the new one made of resin is superior in sound quality. He brought it to my house and played it for us and we were totally blown away!! Amazing. Looks like an all black cello and kinda looks like plastic...weird.View Image
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Well I knew about them and the older carbon fiber bodies on Ovation and Applause guitars. Kaaman, who also makes Takemine was in the helochopper rotor biz, they made the guitar bodies outta the same stuff.
There are also Lucite solid body "fiddles" and guitars, and the cello and upright bass bodies out of aveything imaginable. I made an ele. upright outta 2x10s lammed and carved. Once sprayed with black laq. you can't tell what the body is.
Funniest one I ever saw was a hollow lexan body with water and goldfish inside.
In some defense of the poor soul who swears shellac is king, it is used in touch up where a barrier is needed between disimilar or too similar finishes are used, but on a 'quality' instrument? Not gonna happen, it gets sticky from sweat and you can't slip slide around like you need to.
All the time I have invested in learning the right stuff , when I here "WRONG" it kinda irks me.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Funniest one I ever saw was a hollow lexan body with water and goldfish inside.<<One of the rare videos of Keith Moon doing a drum solo shows his Tom tom I think it is with goldfish swimming around in it.....pretty funny...but that dude had to be one of the worlds greatest drummers. Here ya go...sick..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hngmb0pTcMY&feature=relatedView Image
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Here ya go this is who my friend BEn Clinesmith bought it from. It's carbon fiber http://www.luisandclark.com/[PDF]
That Carbon Fiber Cello
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
ACMP cellist Wayne Benjamin (Chicago, IL), who has owned his carbon fiber cello for about a year and a half .... Back (L-R): Paul Ognissanti, Ben Clinesmith ...
http://www.luisandclark.com/press/Carbon%20Fiber%20Instruments.pdf - Similar -View Image
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_gI3chGtwwView Image
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Yeah, I was typing about carbon fiber when ya posted.
Sorry dude, can't do you tube till I get my LT fixed. Not enough chutzpah in this toy I'm on.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I guess I should have made that part more clear.. I was trying to be funny I thought it was blatantly obvious But since you seem to take so much joy in attacking me for your sake I will put the little <grin>
I wish you would go back and read the hatered that you spew when others differ with your opinions..
You must be a very bitter and shallow person indeed to attack with such venom. You have surpased my ability to tolerate you.. I suggest that you put me on ignore because I intend to do that to you..
You been up this tree before frenchy, you spout off half cocked and when called on it you bail. It osn't my opinion, it is historical fact that I showed you.
You can ignore me all ya want, I'll not let your bad advice go un contested, lest someone actually follow it and create a mess.
You have been treed by many others, about many other things, yet you continue to offer up your mis guided attempts. I'm sorry you can't see the forrest from your tree..I'm far from the only dog down here nipping at you.
Me shallow and full of hatred? That just reaffirms how well you lack in percieving people, just ask anyone who knows me, really knows me..you'd be amazed.
Keep posting, I'll keep correcting...Pretty brazen of you to attempt to question me about the subject tho'. I make a decent living with wood, and copper and wood finishing..and have for many years. I didn't just do it once ya know.
Enjoy your ignore-dom.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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I thought the OP was making a shop table, and yes, shellac ain't the best for that either.
Mine have poly or cat lac, so spilled shellac and laq. clean off easy.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Sphere,I have always appreciated your posts ... in fact, several years ago I made a picture of your "old Kentucky home" my desktop screen for inspiration ... but I never saw this side of you ... going off on Frenchy over shellac ... obviously your experience provides great posts here ... often has helped me ... but the anger part scares me ... please consider this -- just a concerned "friend"
I'm all ears ...
as for the finish, ease of application and recoat as well as moisture resistance may all be a consideration, how about a polyurethane? not 2-part, can get water based, impervious to most chemicals and moisture.
Just some thoughts