well…. a lot of you have gotten statements in the past from the social security admin
kind of entertaining looking back at what you used to make
then as you get into your 60’s you have to start thinking about WHEN to start collecting…
whadda ya know about this ??????
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Replies
Not me, I cry when I look.
Well I always thought good and I showed it to the wife, so she would think twice bout killing me because she wouldnt get squat to live on. I really am worth more alive for onceView Image
Well I always thought good and I showed it to the wife, so she would think twice bout killing me because she wouldnt get squat to live on. I really am worth more alive for once
Hate to ruin your illusion, but Ma is collecting Dad's social security even though they're divorced and he died about 4 years ago. When she hits a certain age, she is going to switch to her own SS.
jt8
They say to start collecting as soon as you are eligible.
Problem is Mike, you will still be making money, and anything over a certain amount they penalize you 2 for 1.
I'm collecting now, disabled.
i wuz hoping for the school solution....
guess i'll have to run about 3 or 4 "what-ifs"
here's the hypothetical friend.........
intends to work until 70 or so..
eligible for $1360 /month at age 63
$1695 / mo age 66
1) they add your benefits to your taxable income... which means you may be eligible for higher benefits in ensuing years
2) age 63 is a 20% reduction in benefits from age 66
3) if the estimated future income without benefits is $75K... and the annual limit is $36K...that's $39 K ... the reduction is $1 for every $3 over the limit...
$39 / 3 = $16K reduction..... and the annual benefit = ($1360 x 12 = $16,320 )
looks like a wash..... course if my fiend has a bad year & doesn't make $75K , then it's a gain.... looks like no lose to go ahead & file
but i bet i'm missing somethingMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The amount that they pay you is calculated based on your remaining life expectancy. So if you live to the age when they estimate that you will die, it doesnt matter when you start taking the money: you will get the same total amount over the number of years from when you start until that estimated death-date. Of course, many will live longer and many will live a shorter amount of time. If your family history shows that you have a lot of really old parents and grand-parents, it might pay to wait until you would get a higher yearly payment, because you might carry that benefit for many more years than they estimate. OTOH, if your ancestors were not long-lived, maybe you won't be either, and should start taking it as soon as possible.
I strongly believe that your life expectancy is strongly genetically-based, I have a bunch of ancient ancestors, and so I waited til I got the full benefit.
YMMV!!
Bob Chapman
<course if my fiend has a bad year >
Yeah, we've all got our demons, don't we?
Forrest
Have you tried their new calculator? It still does not take in every permutation.
http://www.ssa.gov/planners/calculators.htm
That figure they give if you wait til full retirement is based on continuing to work at the current rate. Do believe that most all agree to take it early unless you will be making pretty good money for those 4 or so years. Seems like the breakeven point is about age 76.
IIRC if you are "penalized" for making over the limit that goes back into your kitty and will be partially paid back. The reduced amount for taking early is gone forever. I think I am going to go for an appointment in next week or so. Turn 62 in Oct. Considering getting VA re-eval which might just change the VA disability and combat related provision. If so I may delay SS.
If you are under full retirement age for the entire year, we deduct $1 from your benefit payments for every $2 you earn above the annual limit.
For 2008, that limit is $13,560.
In the year you reach full retirement age, we deduct $1 in benefits for every $3 you earn above a different limit, but we only count earnings before the month you reach your full retirement age.
If you will reach full retirement age in 2008, the limit on your earnings for the months before full retirement age is $36,120. (If you were born in 1943, your full retirement age is 66 years.)
Starting with the month you reach full retirement age, you can get your benefits with no limit on your earnings.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 8/23/2008 11:13 pm ET by rasconc
That is the real key. If you or your wife are still making earned income you probably can't afford to tap your SS early. They will tax it all away and you hurt your future SS income rate.
Here's the link to that issue.
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/whileworking2.htmFor those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
still trying to use that on-line calculator...
can't access it since someone
mis-spelled my mother's name... so know I'm on hold waiting for SS
to help me correct my data...
i wonder if this is how it always is ?
nah.... i really don't wonderMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
LOL, how does somebody mis-spell Smith?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Smyth.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
It is mother's maiden name. I don"t remember him being from Ark or KY so Smith probably not it.
Trust me you can see Smith mispelled. I usually get a chuckle when they ask me to spell Robert Smith. I guess better safe than sorry.
I had always written it off the Smith not being all that popular a name in India.
For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Edited 8/25/2008 2:10 pm ET by rasconc
There was a comedy sketch where a lady's last name was Y. Just Y - no Wye or Why or Whooi.so she is asked how to spell her name.Y she says...Kind of reminiscent of "Who is on first"
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Worked with a Korean named Oh, dentist's last name is simply "O", lotta L&H material there also.
Mr. Oh's first name was "Young", more fodder.
Recall an old Bev. Hillbilly scene where Granny gets stopped by a NY Irish cop. She replies, "Oh, Clampett"; she sequences every name whe knows with "Oh", pretty soon the cop lets her go as another good irishman.
Oh.
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making my 3d batch of salsa for canning... all the native produce is in
any ways... i'm munching on tomatoes and last night's salsa & chipshad a quick ballantine ale after fighting a brush hog for about 3 hours in this humiditythen finished the bottle of Boone's Farms somebody left a couple years ago and finishing it off with a bottle of Moxie... which made me think of you and Carolehere's mud in yur eye !Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Need any Zucchinis?LOL
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I knew a chinese dentist named Dr. Hu. Yes, pronounced who.
Mike, call them on wed. in the middle of the month. I find that is the quickest.
Mike Smith
Must be a republican government worker <grin> democrats don't make those sorts of errors <grin>
or work <grin>For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
rasconc
<grin> now I understand it!
you think only republicans work? and since 50% of the population vote for the other guy the rest of us don't? <grin>
That about sums it up!>G<
I think the add on would only apply to those that were government workers (but isn't that a contradiction in terms?).
Only poking a little fun. I spoke with at least three gov workers today who were very helpful. (all that I spoke with by the way)For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
Generally, for each year you start receiving SS benefits before your regular retirement age (which depends upon your birth year), the benefits are reduced 7.5%. Plus the earning restrictions mentioned by the others.
So's if you are supposed to go out at age 66 and do so at 63, your benefits will be reduced by 22.5% - from the theoritcal payout based upon your earning history.
Now if you work longer than you're supposed to - your benefits are increased by 7.5% per year. So if you go until age 70, your bennies are 30% more. I'm believing there is a limit to this, that being the age 70.
In contrast to some others comments, I've seen some reports suggesting that delaying benefits - if your health history warrants - can offer value.
Note that should you retire early and take benefits later as scheduled, your benefits will be adversely affected when the calculations factoring in your earnings payments show 0 for the last several years. Assuming you're living off IRA's, 401(k)'s and/or savings in the meantime.
For instance, I retired at age 55. I won't take benefits until at least 67. Those benefits will be about half of what I would have gotten if I had stayed on until 67.
Kinda of a hijack Pete, but queries relative to early retirement.
Do ya ever get bored or think you are not contributing?
Or, like me, do you move so slow now that everything takes twice as long as at 50 and 5X as long as at 30 so that there is no time to be bored as it takes so long to get any project completed.
No money worries so was going to retire at 55 also (8 years ago), but corporate technical life got real interesting as all my old mentors had already retired so got to lead/participate in lots of new technical programs from undersea to space.
However, now at 63, so busy professionally that can't get any home projects hardy going (like building another house on back of one son's acreage) due to travel, OT, etc.
So, looking back (assuming you enjoyed your day job?), would you still have retired early? Obviously, if day job was a pit, then I'd already have retired also.
PS: If taxes take the high swing some postulate after the next election, probably will retire and 'not contribute'.
"Do ya ever get bored or think you are not contributing?"
All the time. It drives me to volunteering thru my Optimist Club. I believe all retirees need to be involved in a service club.
Another thing that happens is the loss of your "authority." You are now retired. Not an educated intelligent source of valuable experience, but a retiree that has become out of the loop. Your acquired respect takes a hit.
But our home projects do get caught up. Even sometimes too far. You end up doing favors for others.
Would I have retired early looking back? Yes. I got tired of having to kiss other's azzes to do favors for them. Something in the manner of how I delivered and performed my service became more of a competition rather than a coaching. And I don't like to compete.
But looking back further, I should have stayed in engineering while in colidge. Everything I do is some form or process of engineering something or another.
But you do bring in another good point. Some people hit their career zenith just before it's time to retire. Leaving too soon, deprives the business of significant talent and experience, as well as shortchanges the person from hitting what could be a most satisfiying end to a long service career. For instance, my wife, over the next 10 years until she's ready for SS, will probably far surpass all of the great things she's already achieved in her career. And those last 5 to 10 years could end up generating far more income than what was earned in the previous 40.
In my case, I felt my continuing the pursuit of a career came at a big cost to my wife's. Her career blossemed once her business discovered how quick she was and easy to motivate others. With two people fighting for the top earning spot in the family, a lot gets overlooked. I choose to focus on those things getting overlooked and let her achieve her maximum. It's working out well, thank you.
Retirement does force you to focus on what's really important - that being family.
Thanks for response, may just keep working for another few. One of my best mentors kept working till he was 77, no financial needs at all.
And those last 5 to 10 years could end up generating far more income than what was earned in the previous 40.
Ain't that the truth.
Was talking to some co-workers before a meeting convened last April and mentioned that just the IRS tax for 2007 was greater than total income for first 8 years worked!.
One of the other folks (who is in higher management levels and whose pay is tied directly to stock price) said just his tax bill was greater than his entire income the first 20 years he had worked!
Re: got tired of having to kiss other's azzes to do favors for them -
Yea, ya should have stayed in engineering to be able to stay happily working <G>. Once every body knows you can retire anytime you want, ya get a certain new lattitude if you have any area of expertise. Had a new high level manager come into the group a few years back, his boss told him "Whatever you do, don't piss Art off so much that he retires" <G>
still gotta run the numbers... but one thing that intrigued me is
one of the SS notes says they add the benefits to my income...so let's go back to the hypothetical friend....
making $75k plus say $16k ..... now the income level becomes $91so the ensuing benefits are based on $91..hmmmm...
curiouser & curiouserMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"still gotta run the numbers... but one thing that intrigued me is
one of the SS notes says they add the benefits to my income...so let's go back to the hypothetical friend....
making $75k plus say $16k ..... now the income level becomes $91so the ensuing benefits are based on $91.."No benifits are based on the amounts that SS (or self-employement income) is paid on.Basically that means "earned income".The profit that is shown on a sch C or the amounts of a W-2.But for employees that are a number of benifits that affect earned income. That is why there are different entries for taxable income and SS income..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You are planning on going to your local SS office and having a sit-down, right, Mike? You should, and block out a nice long afternoon or morning for doing it. Take a calculator and pen and pad.
Everywhere I have been, it is always take a number and wait, even if you need a meeting in the back with someone, and not just a counter-type question.
Having been there myself, I can attest to the fact that the folks at any SS office have their antennae up for any self-employed person who seeks to start bennies at age 62 through 65. They have seen books cooked every which way, and will be on the lookout.
The scams are numerous, beside the obvious ones of working under the table. 63-year-old guy starts collecting, keeps working, pays himself something minimal, pays his 59-year-old live-in girlfriend like she's a bond trader. Another guy pays some of his employees larger than they should get, takes cash back, falsifies their payroll records.
You think of a way, but SS has seen it all.
View Image
"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Last week I had a sit-down with my accountant to discuss all the what-ifs on this and she said I needed to spend a day at the SS office just like you told Mike.
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Look at the ss.gov web site first. Some of your answers can be found there, then go into the ss office. You will save a lot of time.
Good idea. I have been wondering about early retirement for the wife and even considering disability 'cause of the fibro for me, but that is such a hard claim to prove - oh, you hurt? So what!
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Disability is basically early SS. So I am guessing that if you are 62 then it is the same as going on early SS.You might be on Medicare then if you qualify for disability rather than waiting for 65.unlike SSI which is welfare for people that could never earn much..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I am on SSD, it took 18mths for me to recieve. Application is easy, you can do it online. They will send you to s doc. for their evaluation.
Decision came 4.5 mths after application ,Denied. Then I had 30 days to appeal. I hired a layer and 3 mths later I had another surgery. Then 9 mths later they reversed their opinion.
Disability is determined by a state agency. In NY, from time of appeal to a hearing, right now is 23 mths.
The key is to have docs back up your claim and have a bad day when you go to their doc!
from all I've heard, the first stop needs to be at a lawyers, before the doc to get approval.
Probably not worth the trouble yet. I can still earn more than I would recieve.
But if it keep s getting worse..
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no, go to the doc then ss, then the lawyer. Of course they are limited in what they can charge by ss. Of course, this means you get very little if any face time.
I hired a lawyer on the phone and talked to her 2x's for a total of 15 min. She got $5300.
Listen,
I am going off canoing, can you guys just gather all the pertinent info and e-mail it to me?
Hate to give up the fun while I am still young enough to enjoy doing it. ;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Are you old enough?
Couple of years until I could take early so not yet, but I figure I only have a few years of canoing left in me.
;-)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
i wuz hoping for the school solution....
The way I look at it... You should start collecting at age 62 if you are willing to only work till you earn 13k each year. The amount of money you you get between 62 and 66 will take a long time to make up if you wait till age 66 and take the higher amount.
For myself, I will never retire so I will start collecting at 66.
FYI...in 1966 I earned $200. From then till now (age 59), I have paid in $180k in social security, mostly as a self employeed person. I should get back what I paid in about 7 or 8 years of drawing benefits. (not including interest I could have earned.)
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
The general rule has been to take it as soon as you can soon as you can that when you figure time value of month the higher payments don't make up for sum that you did not get until them.
They they have changed to date of full payment and other things so many times that I don't know if that still applies or not.
Some googling for CPA, tax, and fancial playing sites should find some updated sources.
But then there are the other complications.
One is that you have to give up $1 for every $2 that you make over roughly $12,000. The 1 for 3 and after you turn 65 you can make as much as you want with have to give up any of it.
So if you aren't planing on going to some kind of semi retired status then I would forget about collecting earlier.
The other thing is, at any age, if you "make" over a certain amount combined with your SS then anything over that amount cause the 80% of the SS to be taxed.
I am not sure of the thresold, but it is not much. $25,000 single, $35,000 joint stick in my mind, but that is just a guess.
And that figure is also includes at least some non-taxable income such as from tax free bonds.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
what's the plans your 63 yr old friend has as far as the existing company?
close up shop , sell the name , semi-retire as a semi-silent partner for ever?
bet each would play into the retirement deal , each in it's own way.
this could be one of the most important threads in the biz section ever!
first ... spend a lifetime trying to make it ... without going broke.
then ... try to get out get out and retire ... without going broke!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Amen brother
gotta go... 1st tee at 6:30.....i'll tell my friend everything i've learned so farhow're the stillers lookin ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Here's what I did. Went out of business ASAP....sold my lake front home......bought acreage in the country....designed and built by myself a 1600sq' cabin......a guest house......a workshop........payed off vehicles etc. all out of pocket and now live entirely on SS.Now I'm a poor hick with a whole lot of free time on my hands.....and LOVING every moment of it.......
Take it easy on him with your wolfmans, and squirrel nuts. All those quarters add up after a while.It's not too late, it's never too late.
"close up shop , sell the name , semi-retire as a semi-silent partner for ever?bet each would play into the retirement deal , each in it's own way."That brings up another point that I might not have been clear on.The reduction in SS becasue of earnings before full retirement age is ONLY for EARNED income.Investment income from stocks, rental property, and dividens from your bsuiness don't count.But that all does count when figuring if SS income is taxable..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Take it ASAP............Don't ever look back, it is what it is.
Many, many variables. Not the least is the rules ARE NOT gauranteed, only set at the whim of congress.
As others have said, get at least some of it back as soon as you can, the trick is to maximize whay can be got out asap.
As of now, One of the biggest is what is/was your wifes income, and what age in relationship to you.
WSJ had a good writeup onthis subject earlier this year, dont know if you can google and find it or not.
In most cases as a general rule, if wife is younger, always start SS for both at same time and go into the office AT THE SAME TIME when starting.
If spouse is older and did not have max SS income for the last 40 years and you did, then if is best for spouse to start spousal benefits at full retirement and you wait until you finish working. WSJ stated that most SS office folks did not know enough to be able to recommend that strategy.
Very interesting to look at the compounded numbers from your statement on a spreadsheet using just the nominal CD rate for the last 40 years.
Max 'contribution' for anyone over the last 40 years is about $210K, if you live to actuarial age and start benefits at 66 or 67, total SS payout would be in the $500-$600K range. A spreadsheet for that $210K at CD rates is many millions.
Can you say 'Ponzi scheme' or 'welfare tax'? That is the crux - which means at some time in the not to distant future SS will be likely be means test based to keep it solvent - if you got anything you have saved yourself, no or very reduced SS (gotta keep the free spenders voting you know). Heck, Argentina even said if you got X peso in the bank, send us half!
Mike Smith
The Amish have a saying,, celibrate work. another words the ability to work is a real blessing..
I love the work I do (and miss not doing it) therefore I want to delay retirement as long as possible.
My wife however has done the same job for nearly 40 years and she eagerly awaits the point in her life when she can retire from that same drudgery.
Thus to us it's not really about money but rather a personal choice..
I think I started paying into it when I was 14. Last time I looked at it, I only have to work until age 68 or so and that $700/month is ALLL MINE!
jt8
John
I started to pay social security tax at age 5 and by the time I was 7 I made more money than my dad. (his company was on strike and I had the neighborhood kids working for me. I go sell the job and get a kid to do the work we'd split 50/50.
Any way I should be able to clear a little over 2300 a month when I retire, you must not be claiming a lot of income. Isn't $700 the minimum?
What I know is....
If you know the exact date you will die, you can easily calculate the answer to when to start collecting benefits.
Otherwise...
http://www.smartmoney.com/deal-of-the-day/index.cfm?story=20080826-social-security
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interesting.... but it didn"t address collecting AND working at age 62 - 63 - 64 , etcMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I just thought the general info would be interesting to put out there.Last month's Kiplinger's had an articla on SS p[lanning ans some side takes on it.For instance, there is a form 521 that most of their reps don't even know about. Example in the article was a 70 YO guy who had been drawing since 62 or whatever. He was able to repay in all he had drawn out and then restart his payments for the age 70 date and be getting more per month. I'm not recommending it, just that they had a lot of insteresting sideroads that are available that most of the pros don't even know about. One is when a retired person is the primary care person raising a grandchild - there is a payment for that dependent added also. Apparently a lot of folks miss that one.
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