Ok…I’m a bit too late probably but figured why not ask..ya never know.
I’ve been using the old fashioned way of doing estimates…on yellow lined legal pads long hand. I know, I know….
It’s not horrible for smallish jobs. I’ve gotten good enough over the past 30+ years of doing it that way to “get by” but I have a BIG possible job coming up I need to estimate. The chances of me getting this job are extremely good. Thing is..it’s probably a half million dollar renovation or better. A complete house redo. Would easily take me into next spring/summer I think.
It’s a REAL lot of figuring and wondered if anyone knew of a program that has hardly any learning curve (I’m very puter challenged!!) and isn’t a fortune. Something that would at least help me along. I really haven’t the time to learn a program between the job I’m on and this possible one I need to get the estimate out for really soon. The plans should be ready for me by the end of the week I think and my archy that drew them for my perspective customers will be submitting them for permits shortly.
Thanks
Replies
I hate to be a pessimist but even something simple like Excel (which you might already have on your computer) will take at least a few hours to learn from scratch. Given your timeframe, you'll probably be better served getting out your yellow pad.
The beauty of using an excel spreadsheet with simple formulas is that it would allow you to tweak labor or material estimates for individual tasks and have the total automatically recalculate.
Regardless of which software you chose, having those yellow sheets of handscrawl are good backup, especially months from now when you are wondering how you figured it would take x hours to complete a certain task.
I don't think trying to learn a new piece of software is a good use of time, esp. if you are under the gun with this est.
Get out the pad and sharpen your pencil.
Thanks RH...that's kinda what I was thinking. It's not that I don't have a few hours to learn something, but I doubt a few hours would really do much anyway and.....I have to agree with you about feeling safe with my scribbled papers. I've just been trying to make them look a bit more organized...lol.
I do hate the repetitive stuff. Sure would be nice to type in 2x4 etc costs and linear feet in each area and voila'. Not this time around I reckon. I waited a bit too long...but at least what I have done/learned has gotten me this far....in getting a shot at a gig like this...and that's from starting back from scratch again.
Thanks for the honest reply bro.
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
On Screen Takeoff is very fast. It is produced by OnCenter software at oncenter.com
I Googled them and found their site but it won't come up...says try again later...which I will.
I let you know what I think if I can ever get into their site.
Thanks
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
I noticed that too. Their server may be down.
Try a website called superbuild.com. It gives a free estimating program that you use on their website. I have used it on a few projects and have found it to be accurate as long as you pay attention to the detail. It is also very easy to use.
Edited 9/14/2008 11:51 pm ET by ScottyMinn88
Thanks...OK...I'll lool into that as well.
Have a feeling my yellow legal pad may be what I end up using but it'd be nice to look into these other things as a back up or introduction...
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
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andy
I make my own excel worksheets. They have materials in one column and labor in another. Common materials and prices are list for that job, roofing , vinyl siding, bathrooms ect.
I will post one I did on my Blank Worksheet, this is what I use for one of a kind jobs. The materials and labor columns are in place with the formulas but I enter the materials.
If you want a tutorial one learning excel the go to
Estimating with Excel for Dummies
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=104183.1
I also use National Estimator at
Craftsman site License
http://craftsman-book.com/products/index.php?main_page=cbc_product_software_info&cPath=39&products_id=387
Rich
I was looking at the free site Scotty left me in a few posts up http://www.superbuild.com./default.aspx
and it seemed like it was also basically an Excel kind of deal?
Then there's one more site I still need to check from gb's post (OnCenter).
I think I'd be more interested in seeing what you left for me being I could make my own custom to my liking. Thing is...I'm not sure I'll have enough time to get it all together...plus feel safe with it yet. That's what RedfordHenry sorta picked up from my vibe as well. the saftey factor at this point.
Might be a good idea to do it on my trusty tried and true (and SLOW) legal yellow lined pad but also try the Excel thing along with it just to get me going with Excel...assuming I'll have the time to mess with it right now.
Gonna check your links out now....thanks mucho!!
andy
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"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Learn excel man-fast,quick and easy...it will save you many times over the hour or 2 it takes it get it up and running.Rich(cargin) has a blank worksheet that I still use and change around to suit each job. I used paper for a long time, thought excel was too hard to learn but once I got into it and with cargin's help, I was using it to my advantage.It lets you work with the figures, try different markups...gotta say..I'm lovin' it.I'd start with this tutorial my bro sent me http://www.usd.edu/trio/tut/excel/ and just get into it from there...how do you eat an elephant-1 bite at a time. Start with something simple but tedious-windows maybe-and get that one aspect working...go from there...one of the things I did was send some of my early efforts to cargin and he taught me how to use colour and the better use of formulas...it's like anything...a little knowledge goes a long way...and it will save you time. I often cut and paste from excel to a vendor quote. silver
Good Evening Phil
We got another guy who wants to talk estimating.
Good to see you back on the board.
Rich
Thanks Silver...Gonna add that link into my folder for learning Excel..appreciate that much. I do hear you loud and clear. It;s been a real long time comin'! I think sometimes you have to appreciate the labor of long hand and counting on fingers and toes and scribbles to really produce better results as you climb the ladder in the technology dept...hence Excel or even one of the costly programs sometime down the line....but one step at a time. I swung a hammer before i ever knew what a nail gun was...still swing my hammer plenty though : )
Geezzz..after 32 years of climbin' through windows and over ridge beams you'd think I'd be further ahead...sometimes we get stuck in old way don't we? I reckon there's been a few clogs in my wheels every here and there : ) ~
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I was going to say it's the difference between a nailgun and a hammer...I was thinking the other day when i was a young and green, I put hardwood flooring in with a skilsaw and cut nails!I think you'll dig excel...it's cool how you can take an estimate, copy it and whip up a worst case scenario(high ball)just by changing a few numbers. I do this a lot...new things seem hard and formidable and then I do it...piece de gateau- and what was all the fuss about?...I'm way behind on estimates and have to get back to the excel grindstone... but it does make things easier...more fun?OTOH, perhaps there is another huge job after this one. Imagine
how easy it would be to find an estimate/data/info if it's in excel...now that's easy...it helps to keep me organized. cheers,silver
Excel is like a calculator and is not that hard to learn the basics required do an estimate.... not like you have learn all the functions and formulas and alot easier to revise if you miss something or if you have to re- enter the number of pcs or costs........ try it.
andy.... i use GC/Works... which is the previous version of
BuildWorks..... by Synapse Software
i've use GC/Works since '98
you work with templates and it generates construction documents
http://www.synapsesoftware.com/editions.htmlMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike...I'll look it over when I get more time. Spent quite a while last night going over the Excel programs for now. Doubt I'll use any of it for this particular proposal but I will enter the numbers I come up with into it when I get the time as my first entry into learning Ecxel. I will eventually want a program like the one you linked me to. I'll check it out further tonight if I don't fall asleep first...whewwwwwww...long day...for a change.
Sending you a PM...check yer mail.
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andy
Just curious how the excel learning is going.
Holler if you need help.
Rich
Thanks fer checkin' in carg...actually I spent a good hour or two last night reading that tutorial Silver left (http://www.usd.edu/trio/tut/excel/ ) about Excel and got only 6 out of 9 questions right on the test...lol...but then again I really only breezed through the literature just to get me going plus I could hardly read the last few questions they were so blurred.
What the test DID tell me though was that I do need to write down the points to remember as the literature suggested. I do get it...just need to actually spend some time with it of which I don't have a lot of right now being I have to work all day then when I get home I'm too wiped out to concentrate.
Meeting with my potential customer tomorrow early evening so I spose' I'll see whats up with the proposal I may need to jump on....when I'm going to have time for that will be interesting...just going to need to MAKE TIME!!
Rough cpl of months but at least it's been productive so I ain't complaining.
It's also good too that I asked about the estimating program...been too long sitting in the back of my head. At least now I'm headed in the right direction..in part thanks to you and some of the others here.
Excel is most definatly a MUST!! I do see that.
Thanks and I'll give you a shout when I have some questions.
Maybe I should pick up Excel For Dummies? http://www.amazon.com/Excel-2007-Dummies-Computer-Tech/dp/0470037377 2007 Edition??
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andy
I my post
Estimating with Excel for Dummies
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=104183.1 I walk you thru setting up a simple worksheet.
I am puter challenged too. I wrote the thread from that perspective. I assummed the reader didn't know anything.
I showed how to set up columns, make them larger, how to insert rows and columns, how to establish fomulas, how to use color and font. Then at the end I set forth some ideas on how you could take your worksheet to the next level and figure stuff for you (metal edge and winterguard).
Rich
Rich...yeh i know. i was going through your well thought out and written post but I just thought it might be a good idea to first read up about Excel in general first just to learn about the wires and gears behind it or don't yyou think that's necessary?
Off to work...catch ya later
andy
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andy
I don't know.
I learned how to use it same way I do ceiling fans and garage door openers.
Read the directions only when I get stuck. LOL
When you click help on excel there are some excellent tutorials online. It is usually one skill at a time.
Rich
Edited 9/18/2008 1:47 pm ET by cargin
I hear ya Rich...thing is...I need bathroom reading material anyway...lol
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OK Rich...Started messing with it tonight to figure a master bathroom I'm giving a guy a price for...haven't gotten that far but so far so good. Very cool! Gee...what took me so long??
I'll keep ya posted...more on it tomorrow ~
Thanks...I'm definitely diggin' it : )
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andy
Great. I do all my thinking on excel anymore.
My hand writing is bad, so this way even in my worksheets I look like a pro.
I also figure all my bills on an excel worksheet. # of hours, sometimes with the SF of given project, and materials. With materials sometimes it's just the invoice totals and other times I break it down, countertop, cabinets, sheetrock, paint.
But this way i have a digital record I can refer back to later.
I'm willing to help anytime. I have shared my worksheets often on this board and will do so again if asked.
Rich
Yeh...makes you feel like....where have I been all these years....head in the sand?....and I've only gotten up to your first few posts. I do have a nice little list of materials in my spread sheet for an upcoming bathroom next week so it was a "perfect" project to take advantage of this opportunity and the generous amt of time you spent posting all of that.
Actually I was at the bookstore yesterday reading through Excel for Dummies 07 with the ribbon stuff in it b/4 I realized that, that wouldn't be applicable to the Excel that's in my puter which is much older.........then I read"put this book down if you have anything prior to 07 as it will just confuse you.....and pick up 03??"
I "might" take that out of the library at some point to just breeze through it when I'm on the throne...lol....but your tutorial is all I really need at this point.
Where's all those scraps of paper go........
I'll let ya know how it goes...thanks
andy
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Andy-
Given the fact that you probably don't want to spend tons of time learning a program, plus spend time figuring out whether the costs that come with the canned program are correct for your business model (they never are out of the box....), the recommendations for Excel are spot-on. It'll take you all of about an hour to figure out how to do simple calculations, and while it may seem to take slightly longer than the old yellow pad on the first go 'round, it'll save tons of time when you have to make changes.
When I first started doing estimates in the early 90's, I was using the old pre-printed estimate tab sheets. I'd do all of the math on multiple sheets, tally them all up with the calculator, and invariably someone would change something. You ended up having to erase and re-add everything from scratch. Once I went to Excel (well, Quattro Pro at the time), I never went back. I've since been forced to use Timberline at work, and while it's a great program, I can still do estimates faster in Excel. Of course, I don't need all of the detail that a properly created Timberline database can create, but I also don't have to spend hours and hours to put that database together."Brilliance!! That's all I can say- Sheer, unadulterated brilliance!!" Wile E. Coyote- Super Genius
Hey..good to (sorta)see you Bob!
Jerrald called me this morning and we were gabbing about a bunch of stuff and he suggested his new and improved 360 program that he's been working on, so maybe later today we'll figure it out. We spoke about using "go to my computer.com" so he could work on it with me.
I still will do the Excel b/c I already started with it last night and I can't imagine anything this fast and easy...not to mention free.
I also have master bathroom proposal to draw up for a customer of mine where there's not tons and tons of figuring to do so I'm using that as my first Excel experience...perfect really!!!
Jerrald did mention a cpl of shortcomings to Excel which I'm sure there are with any program and one being protecting each row of numbers. I need to be sure I don't accidently delete something or hit an uncalled for number. That's where my scraps of paper always had me feeling safe. I could see all my figures right in front of me. I know I could also use an abacus instead of a calculator too but....lol...need to step up a bit from my legal pad at this point.
In the long haul though I think some sort of program like the one Jer is trying to refine would be best because it'd be nice to have a library of set prices for labor and material that I could draw from on different aspects of large jobs like the one I "think" I may be getting (plans should be done this coming week I think). I just don't have much $$$ to lay out at this point with this damn house still unsold...ugh.
Paying the bills around here is a monu-mental job in of itself but I am surviving so.................so far {{praying}}. Restarting up my business at this point in time hasn't been easy (after all the years doing this house exclusively)but I've put all I've learned over the years into play and things seem to be working slowly but surely.
Great time to do the things I never did address like estimating programs.
Thanks for the input Bob...not to many people as well versed in this as I know you are!!
Talk soon
andy
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http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Hey man,
I was enjoying this thread so I thought i would give it a bump.I've been in the office for the last 2 days, shaking it rough,dragging my sorry #### to the keyboard clenching a pile of soggy yellow pads :>0 But I got into office groove and have punched out 2 proposals/excel estimates at 99% and 1 at 90%, roughly speaking. Just
have to sleep on the final prices and that's one I learned from Mike Gertsel in Running a Successful Construction Business. Also, and a good one-I had DW look them over today-is have a second pair of eyes look over your estimates and proposals. but his best, don't do estimates in the evening when you're tired. Someone said you can't
work hard enough to make up for a bad estimate and I take that advice to heart. I don't have an office job for a reason. I understand now Jim Allen's point of losing efficiency when you're a one man show.Anyway, I thought I would attach the excel estimate I was working on today. I'm just a newbie myself but the last time I threw an excel worksheet at cargin, he threw it back to me with accent colours and working formulas...a very easy way to learn... and that is the template I used for this estimate.I'm still working on my markups but I have settled on 25% on material and 40% to 65% markup on labour which on most fixed price contracts breaks down like this:
10% overrun/risk
10% profit
30% overhead
40%-50% markup minimum up to 67%(I pretty sure my 2 markup gurus,Mike Smith and Jim Allen add 67% to job costs...I could have gotten that one wrong.Point is I've learned more at BT than anywhere else and I'm trying my damdest to apply what I learned.My 2cents worth for tonight-back to the excel trenches...gonna grab a gin and tonic...to excel!cheers,
silver
Edited 9/24/2008 10:16 pm ET by silver77
Here's the attachment...I edited the customers names out.silver
Very cool to see Silver!
Love the colors btw..lol.
I haven't gotten quite that far yet although I do have a nice spread sheet laid on on my first attempt with my individual cost per item X the # of items. Just never got up to the part where you add all those totals up. Was in too big of a rush so I added them up on scrap paper...I know I know...I just couldn't help myself...lol. I didn't wanna read the tutorial anymore at that point. I'm sure it was no big deal to do...just another step. I'll probably work on my Excel sheet again tomorrow being I'm almost done with cleaning out the shop and van and have the rest of the week to clean house before i start back at my customers job again on Monday (they've been away all week in Paris). My proposals done but I will continue with it just to learn it.
One issue did come up though as i was figuring everything. I know most everyone figures things out by hours they "think" a job will take but for me I've never really done it that way. Too many variables I've always found. Say you figure an hour to put in a pre hung door with the knob and casings....well on the second floor it takes longer dragging all my tools up there into the opposite side of the house for instance...PLUS...I already had a bunch of the tool I needed from doing other projects on the first floor. ...so the way I've always figured it ...especially in reno work vs new is........I lump together a few small projects all within the same area and figure out in my head how long I think those few project should take me.
Thats what happened when I was doing my spread sheet. I started lumping several small projects together giving them each a code like 1-a 1-b 1-c and then all my 1's would get an allotted amt of time. Thats where I stopped short of finishing my Excel lesson. I started thinking about color coding projects but that'd be too hard to deal with so labeling a few with a given number/letter in the same project category seemed to work out so far.
Then...I always run into issues with my mark up and my labor b/c it's really so arbitrary it seems to me. How much you pay yourself. I feel as though if I pay myself say $85 an hour as an example...or almost $700 a day...then mark that up say 20% and end up with about $840 a day plus what I make from my help... it's all kind of what I make it. So just a helper at $200 a day (who I pay 150) and my $840=over $1000 a day for the 2 of us. (I end up with $900 a day)
Then say we end up just priming and painting for 2 days. $2000 seems a little steep compared to what a painter charges....but $2000 a day for some technical work seems more than fair. I spose it all balances itself out in the end. Sometimes.
My point is though..it really is arbitrary. I tend to adjust my prices for the different projects at hand unless it's a lot of work on one project with mixed jobs within that. Then I keep it at one set price. Then I figure it's a wash.
I seem to make everything so complicated...lol.
So far it's worked for me though!
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"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Works for you! cool...I used to say to my woodworking studentsinclination
motivation
style
and we like easyWe're all inclined to do something a certain way-our way.That motivates us to follow through and that's our style...a student told me once he didn't have style...lol...we all have style.Post what you got so far in excel...silver style"we teach best what we most need to learn"
sent you a PM
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andy
Didn't you love this from Bob K
It'll take you all of about an hour to figure out how to do simple calculations,
Yeah right, you've never been computer challenged. LOL Hope Bob is LOL
Just never got up to the part where you add all those totals up. Was in too big of a rush so I added them up on scrap paper
Andy use sum it looks like a capital E in the top tool bar. See screen shot.
Highlight the cell were you want your totals to appear, (at the bottom of a column), excel will guess which cells you want totaled and it will put lines around them. If excel is right then just hit enter. If excel didn't get all the cells you want totaled then click on where you want the column to start and drag to the last cell. Then hit enter.
When viewing other peoples worksheets it is helpful to move the FHB banner up. Put the cursor under My Favorites on the yellow line. Click and drag up. Same thing with the left hand column. Double arrows appear over there to help you make the move.
Or you can highlight the whole page and paste on to a blank excel worksheet and then use it. You may have to adjust the column width.
Rich
Ya did it again to me Rich..lol. Caught your post and pulledback up my sheet and tried the sum feature. Sweet! Then I started messing around with some other stuff there and was stuck there for another 1/2 hour just playing around : )
Figured out by playing around how to auto fit each cell column. THAT was nice! Now my sheet isn't a mile wide..lol. If I wanna move say columns DEFG to the left b/c row C is empty how do I do that? I thought I was going to put something in column C but never did.
I love this!!! : )
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"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Hey Andy,Did you figure out how to use colour??If you have 2 rows of tools set up at the top of your sheet,(if you don't that's step 1)
go the bottom row-2nd from the right
click on the "ink pot" icon-there's yer colour
click a cell you want colored...now click the ink pot icon...select a colour...boom.
if you want to fill a bigger space, just click and drag to fill a larger area...maybe you knew this...silver
Funny you should ask... I was JUST messing around with that after rearanging some cells to make it more compact.
No idea why I'd really want color though other than to make things more pronounced or have the total costs in green to symbolize $$$
Question though about adding color...seems to take the lines out of the columns. Anyway to keep the lines in?
PS...I was thinking the same thing about Rich
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"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
The colour helps me to think clearer-really.if you can see it, you can build it. if you see it clearly-your numbers-it's easier to look your customer in the eye and say yes it costs that much and yes the tax is extra...does for me...I sold a job yesterday...didn't think she would sign;
she had just made muffins and while I ate a hot one out of the oven,she signed and and give me a cheque...lolsold another job after that...both at prices i wouldn't have considered asking even 2 years ago...but when you see and know your numbers, and think the estimate through and add your markups... that's the price or I'm staying home...I used to discount off "that price" but now I know a discount comes off my profit and at my age, I want to make as much profit as possible...and that kind sir is why i use colour<grin>cheers,silver
Andy
With any cell in column C highlighted, click Edit, then click delete. It will give you the option to delete whole column.
Excel will delete column C. Now the info in D will appear in column C and all formulas will be transfered.
You can also delete whole rows or just groups of cells. Be careful just deleting groups of cells because it will screw with your formulas.
Rich
Edited 9/28/2008 2:56 pm ET by cargin
Hey Rich,You ever thought of teaching at night...I taught night classes for 16 years...woodworking and carpentry...and I gotta say-Yer a natural born teacher.Keep up the good work,mansilver
Phil
You ever thought of teaching at night...
You gotta be kidding me. Can't you feel how tired I am at night. LOL
You told Andy to be careful about estimating at night because you are tired. Now you you want me to go out and teach tomorrows leaders when I am bone tired and I have estimates and billing I should be doing. LOL LOL
I doubt it would pay $40/ hr either.
I have my teaching certificate, but I never taught in school. College doesn't teach you how to teach anyways. Most teachers learned on the job.
Are you going to JLC Live in Minneapolis?
Rich
Edited 9/28/2008 8:51 pm ET by cargin
"Are you going to JLC Live in Minneapolis?"When is it?? Anyway, one of your many talents is teaching...silver
Good Morning Phil
"Are you going to JLC Live in Minneapolis?"
I guess not. It's Oct 7-10.
http://www.jlclive.com/JLC2008/JLCMW08/public/enter.aspx?left=0&Nav=0
Back in "How to Speed Up Estimating" you mentioned you would be going when JLC got close.
I thought, yeah I should go to that and expand my business thinking.
Now every weekend in October is getting full of trips out of town. My heart wants to go and learn, but the schedule is limiting me.
I still might ( big might) try to slip up there for one day. Leave early and get home late.
Thanks for the pat on the back about having the talent to teach others. Seems I have always been doing that. Sometimes it was teaching others to fish and hunt or others to build.
Rich
Edited 9/30/2008 7:11 am ET by cargin
It's 7 hours for me and I have my hands full...but I'm thinking about
trying to get away<grin>I'm also trying to get together with my oldest daughter who lives in New York City! Torn both ways...cheers,silver
Phil
So let me get this straight.
You would rather go to NYC and see your daugther, rather than drive 7 hours to MN and meet with someone (who may or may not come) and who you don't know.
Some kind of online friend you are. LOL
It's a 5 hour drive for me. I have a brother in the Twin Cities area.
But I doubt I'll pull it off. It would be good to do some classroom time, and I might get my business mind expanded. What the heck, another year in the backwoods of the business world.
Rich
why don't the two of you come to my house in March / ?? for JLC-Live in Providence...
we usually get a pretty good turnout of BT charactersMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey there's a thought! How much fun would that be?In the meantime, we have BT to keep our minds fresh in the bush!cheers,silverBTW-by March-dunno 'bout you folks but we're starting to get just a little bit bushed----er non pol!---after 5 months of winter<grin>that's just before tough sledding season
Mike
Thanks for the invitation.
It would be cool to see Rhode Island and the East coast.
I lived in Brooklyn back in 93'. Made one trip up to Stamford CT but that's a close to NE as I have ever gotten.
Feb. or Mar. would be much better times for a JLC Live.
Ocotber??? That's when things are going crazy around here. Everyone wants it done before it gets cold.
The walleyes start to bite and pheasant season opens.
Anyway thanks for the invitation.
Rich
yes...having JLC-Live in March is like one of the early signs of Spring...we know we made it thru another winterMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike
Is it a long drive from your house to the conference site?
Just a small state joke. LOL
Rich
yes it is....at least 30 minutes....sometimes 40.....
but we manageMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the invitation!The last time I posted I was on office overload-also know as POS-Post Office Syndrome. I spent the last 2 weeks writing propsals, selling jobs,rewriting proposals...It was a gorgeous fall day today and I got a chance to get outside, get some fresh air and grind the #### out of my trailer that I'm renoing.Then cut a tankful of firewood. Almost fun when the air is crisp and the leaves are turning yellow and orange. Feels good to be working with my hands. Always loved working outside and working with my hands.cheers,si;ver
At least you got a good sense of humour!I've been selling jobs like crazy...unreal...starting to sound like a soap opera...I sold "Julia" a floor and rail job yesterday and she heard that having me do a hardwood floor is like using a Ferrari to pick up eggs and milk...ha...that from a loco archy that knows me.
I told her I was going to figure out how to use that in my marketing campaign--lolAnd the bathroom reno I sold last week to Carol- 2 of the lady's ex boyfriends had a fistfight over the price I gave Carol for the reno...that's what I get for taking Mike Smith's and blue's mark up advice!Reckon I'm getting close to the right markup-lol...a lawyer's wife once explained the flinch test to me...
that I'll be $10,000 for the washroom-no flinch
the floor is an extra 2000-no flinch
and the new vanity will be an extra 2000-flinch ...bingo
but I can include that for an extra grand-lolBe hard to scoot away now but March...now there's an idea...and Rhode Island not far from Vermont which is where my daughter and I are hoping to get together...SNODDY!!!!!!!Ya can't marry this here dude!I was to big cities once and they ain't fer ya ...Iffin ya marry up wif me, I'll build ya a special pen for Hubert(her pet pig)Ya will Zeke? coos snoddySure will snoddy um don't ask what ispired that last bit...from grade 10 when I was Zeke in It's Cold In Thar Hills...a bit of comic relief and proving I'm a hick from the bush,dyed in the woolcheers,silver
Phil
Good to hear you are selling work at a good price.
My problem is that I have been too focused on working and I have not put much time into estimating.
Hard to look at work and work at the same time.
We have been doing a big roof
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=106884.23
and I need/want to stay on the job to keep the pace up and make it profitable.
When I get on big jobs I kind of get really focused and really committed, especially when weather is a factor.
Rich
Morning Rich,Man I hear ya!!!!!! Excel is what is saving my bacon...Part of Jim Allen's new business model is to hire a salesperson and have someone focused on selling all the time...As good as that sounds, it wouldn't work for me.What happened to me,post sabbatical, is that I needed some work bad and quoted willy nilly on a few projects. We got the jobs and couldn't work hard enough to make profit. That's hurts at my age...I'm too old to be stupid.I worked my way through those and that's when I got serious about excel...so I was able to use the program to list all tasks and margins and markups. Sold and worked my way through a couple of those...and started making a small profit on them.Funny thing...When I am confident of my numbers, I can sell the job at a higher price. Sometimes it means taking some projects out, or
tweaking things just right...In the past, I might knock off a hundred
or two but now I realize that is my profit and I want it in my pocket.Folks want what I have...my product,my service...and competition is in my mind.I tried adding this to my proposals:
• The best service in the industry.
• Professional installation with attention to detail.
• Work areas are always safe, tidy and as clean as possible.
• We take care of your home like our own home.
and I think it helps with the "value added" equation in my customer's mind.I know what it's like to be totally caught up in trying to get a job done...and not having time to estimate...but I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and I know I make my money in the office now...with my excel estimate...and I have the luxury of being able to take a week
to do a batch of estimates and sell them at a profitable price...and then put my nose to the grindstone...track those jobs...make adjsutments...do another batch of estimates.Makes me realize I have changed my business model...I owe that to BT and folks like yourself, Mike Smith, Jim Allen, Huck, Bowz,Andy,Sonny... to name a few.my chainsaw calls...Cheers, si:;er
andy
The benefits of using excel are;
You can change a value (price of sheetrock, or the quantity and the program automatically changes the total. so even after you are done you can change quantities without readding the whole column.
You can program your template to automatically figure another product. For instance if you use 1/2 tube of glue for each piece of sufloor. Once you punch in 32 pieces of subfloor the 16 tubes of glue is already figured. Or say vanity sink, then program in shutoffs, supply lines, trap and drain tube. Or gutter apron and Ice and Water.
You can keep all your old worksheets organized for historical perspective. I would never be able to keep all the paper copies organized.
Rich
Cargin
YEh...I figured at least that much...why it'd be the route to go and what it can do for me....just needed the push...thanks for the lil' extra shove and help!!
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
I second the Crafstmen National Estimator software.
Nice program, easy to use, customizable if you choose, and accurate for your location.
asmith
Thanks for the reply.
I use Nat. Estimator alot as a back up. I figure stuff my way, then do a NE estimate.
I don't do it on every estimate, just when I feel the needfor a second opinion.
Did we mention that it's affordable. $69. Most anyone can afford that.
Rich
Andy,
Check the document library, on Bob's estimating forum at JLC. Look for "Big Bid Template 04". It's an excel template that's a great place to start.
Brudoggie
Andy,
Check the document library, on Bob's estimating forum at JLC. Look for "Big Bid Template 04". It's an excel template that's a great place to start.
Brud...Thanks...I'll check it out. Bob Kovaks yer talkin' about...si?
More stuff got my folder....I should be real set with all ya allz help.
Mucho thankso
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Andy,
I'm not sure you are being clear as to WHY you need to do this.
I'm guessing that you want a good presentation...............do your yellow pad. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Get all your categories and prices together and have someone put it in a table form document for you or however you would like it to look for your presentation.
You don't need estimating software or excell to create a good looking presentation.
[email protected]
Eric...not for any presentation. It's just to do my figgerin' to get a real big proposal out.
Tired of long hand and scribbles on lined yellow legal pads...not that that hasn't worked but it's like using a hammer to do roofing instead of a nail gun...but like i said in a previous post...the hammer does teach you alot..now it's time to move forward and try and be more efficient : )
Thanks dude
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Andy - I've tried a bunch of programs and nothing suits me better than Excel. But, you're gonna have to dedicate some time to learning it and setting it up.
Now's not the time for that. Do this one like you always have and between now and the next one, spend a little time getting to know the software.
I'll send you my Excel bid program if you want it to get a feel.
Good luck with the new project. You still got my phone #?
View Image
Grant...yeh, I agree about this job and Ecel but I also agree that what I should probably do is do it the way I'm used to...this time...but use my scribbled legal pad pages "when I get the time" to organize them into an Excel format... to learn.
This job I spose was meant to push me into that direction ......finally!
Just praying I get this gig...sure would be the right order of things for me the way things have been going. You should know...being I think you remember how I've been pushing the past year. So far I couldn't ask for better results so all my fingers and toes are crossed.
I'll give ya a shout if I need yer help...Thanks
avi yama dass : ) ~ aka andy...lol
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Andy, the thing you should understand is that if you can get that information onto a yellow legal pad, you'll be able to do the same thing with excel. The only difference will be that at the end, you won't have to punch any numbers into a calculator to get the bottom line. It will be done for you automatically.
Jim..Yeh...I got that. That really was why I started this thread. That's what I was digging for...just wasn't sure where to start my first hole (so to speak..lol.)
Didn't wanna really START with some expensive costly program. This should be perfect really. Just what the doc ordered : )
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
http://www.ramdass.org
"I am Andybuildz and I approve this post"
Over the years I've tried programs that did not quite suit my bussiness format very well. Either they were hard to master or not flexable. I've been using Handyman Assistant for 8 months now and I've been quite happy with it. It is easy to edit and add items to it's data base such as time, cost and hours for each item. It has simplified my estimates and given me a consistency I lacked before. I am happier in the field than behind a desk.
Hope this helps
Michael Rapini
msrhomeimprovements.com
Nice to run into you...I suggest you fill out your profile-...Always nice to get another opinion...When I first found BT, some 10 years ago, I posted early in a thread with what I thought was the best possible solution-that I knew of. By the end of that thread I was blown away with the "better" answers that came in-expanding my body of knowledge and opening my mind to possibilities that didn't exist in my mind before that.Been like that for me ever since.When to a party last night and I heard someone say this to me:"So you must excel at excel?"Beautiful fall day- and the wood pile is almost cut and ready for the splitter.Cheers,s:;""r
mikera
Could you post an estimate or some pages from Handyman asst. so we can see what it looks like.
I haven't taken the time to google it yet. Probably will later.
Rich
This is a great thread. Thanks for all the tips on exell. I am also learning how to use it for estimating, bugeting, billing etc. It takes a while to get the first work sheet all formated but it sure makes life esier when all you have to do is punch in the new job's numbers on the old job's work sheets. Thanks again for the help.
I thought it was a great thread too.See if you can find cargin's thread-Excel for dummies. Lots of good info there too. Let me know if you can't find it in the business folder and I'll send a link.cheers,silver
http://m1e.net/c?31662093-U5h1kS1IVPSH2%403712344-yr72/dVmoi3f%2eThe above link should take you to a link for an interactive internet site that will be demonstrating 5 estimating programs live on Sat. Oct.25. Michael Stone presents these from time to time...worth a quick look to see if you're interested..silver