I am going to install insulation in a fully gutted 1900 craftsman house in the Pacific Northwest. I was wondering if anybody has used a product called Ecobatt, made by knauf insulation. It seems to me like a solid product. I just have not heard of anyone using it.
Would appreciate your thoughts and advice.
Making mitered head casings is a breeze with this simple system.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
As I learned in the last month, Knauf Ecobatts just started shipping here in the PNW. I don't think there's much out there.
Someone will come along shortly to tell you that it's still fiberglass and therefore sucks...
But,
I really liked the stuff. It's glass fiber all right, but 20% PCR glass bottles, has a totally organic binder holding it all together, and is not as dusty, or friable as standard FG batts.
Their brochure shows a guy installing unfaced batts without a respirator. I wore mine anyway, but the stuff is almost not itchy at all. Available in all configurations too, although kraft faced were hard to get at the time.
Pat
Checked out the site. No R-value information. This stuff is BRAND SPANKING NEW w/ limited availability ... not sure why only in the Northwest since they are an Indiana company. Knauf is a well known supplier of traditional fiberglass batts ... much like Certainteed, etc.
I e-mailed a supplier asking about R-value. I'm guessing based on the description that it will be roughly the same R-values as traditional fiberglass ... but it could be better ... who knows. The big benefit will be the 'no itch' factor by the sounds of it.
still filterglass = sucks
you want cheap go cellulose you want best then Closed cell
As far as I know the R-values are similar (R15 for 2x4 walls and R21 for 2x6). The main selling point for me, was the product is truly formaldehyde free. It is also made partly from recycled material and it costs about $.60 s/f. Which makes it eco friendly and affordable. It just scares me because it is a new product.
thanks
So get a sample ... it ain't rocket science ... not like buying a new high tech appliance. Feel it, touch it ... there probably isn't too much magic there. It's got no moving parts. It's like touching a fine piece of wood ... you like it it's probably not wrong. R-values are certainly right ...
I paid $1 a sqft for regular fiberglass in the Hood River area ... same installed (duh, I chose installed for the same price I would have paid for materials alone). Your price sounds fine. Get a hold of the salesman ... grill him ... if you don't cringe, go for it; if it sounds like something isn't right ... politely walk away.
You might want to talk to an insulation contractor and see what they would charge for blown-in cellulose or FG. It does a better job around pipes, electrical boxes, blocking, etc. There are plenty out there who would want the job right now. Where in the PNW are you?
I am in the Seattle area. The kicker in all of this, is that I have to work with the PUD. Therefore, I have to work with their select contractors or do it myself. The rebates are at 50% of materials. It makes it worth it to do it myself.
Thank you for your advice!
Curious about something else, what is the siding/sheathing detail on your house? Is there felt or housewrap under the siding? There are pitfalls to insulating an old house that has not been previously. Uninsulated buildings breathe well and minor water intrusion does not cause too much trouble. Add insulation and you can cause the walls to store water, which can become a problem.
There are pitfalls to insulating an old house that has not been previously.
... what? In a 1900's house, my guess is the exteior wall is probably breathing very well ... no issues. Any moisture that goes through the insulation will quickly dissapate is my guess. Not sure how adding insulation to this scenario would necessarily result in the wall storing more water/moisture.
Adding insulation significantly changes the drying potential of the wall. If water is getting in... and it often is, especially on walls with no felt and possibly no sheathing... it will take a lot longer to dissipate. I've been asked a couple of times to finish the interiors of old outbuildings, where the siding was simply nailed to the studs. It is easy to see where the water has been coming in, and unless you redo the exterior it will keep coming in at the same spots. I don't want jobs like that. Someone else recently did the last such job I looked at. They did nothing at all to the exterior. I give it 5 years before there's a funky smell in the nice man's new office.
You are assuming there is something seriously lacking in the existing construction. I'm assuming that there isn't. Old building ... hopefully 'done right' (although this isn't always the case).
Would you include 'lap siding nailed directly to studs with no felt or sheathing' as 'seriously lacking' when it comes to adding insulation to the walls?
There was shiplap siding used as a sheathing. Then a layer of craft paper. Then layered with another layer of decrotive ship lap siding. Though it sounds like alot, it was still leaky. I have no idea how many tubes of caulk and spray foam I have used to seal that house!
Seriously lacking in general. I'm not an expert, but I suspect that even by old standards, that would be considered unacceptable (primarily the lack of e.g. felt paper since the lack of sheathing isn't necessarily a problem ... nor is sheathing necessarily considered part of a 'weather suitable' construction). Open any book on construction, new or old, and my guess is that they will always have some equivalent of the felt paper base under siding.
Generally moisture is flowing inside to out. Moisture originating from outside should GENERALLY not be an issue, but it can be under various circumstances (which is why the felt paper, I think).
How much direct experience do you have remodeling older homes?
Not a lot ... I substantially renovated an 1895 2 story farm house style house for about 20 yrs. Some other minor stuff. I'm not a contractor. Built a couple of houses. I'm not expert by any stretch, though. Architect by training. Energy geek by trade. Arm chair contractor by hobby, I guess.
At the moment it has shiplap siding. I will be covering it with 30# felt and cedar shingling over this summer though.
thanks
That's exactly what I had at my place... 1x6 shiplap nailed to the studs... and what I did... 30# felt, new flashing and trim, new shingles. You're set.