Electric Fire: Power Co. Responsibility?
On Saturday, the next door neighbor to my rental house called, saying smoke and sparks were coming off the wire leading into my house. He also called the fire department.
I arrived first and noticed the strong smell of burning wire. I went into the house and the lights were on, the tv running and the air conditioner running. Fire department arrived, turned off the main breaker outside and called the power company.
When the guy from the power company arrived, the first thing he said was that the splices before the mast weren’t from Duke Power. They were held together with wire nuts and had melted down.
He went to work rewiring the supply. In the meantime, the captain of the FD noticed the smell of burning wires in the panel (a 200-amp panel box that’s was there when I got the house 4 years ago). He also noticed soot on the inside of the panel.
After finishing the supply and putting in a plastic blank, the guy from Duke power opened the breaker box. It was all burnt up.
I had to find an electrician at 4PM on Saturday to install an entirely new panel. It cost $2100. I also had to put up the tenants in a hotel for two days. Hopefully, they’ll have power tomorrow (Monday). I can only hope that none of the electronic equipment in the house is damaged.
It would seem that since the source of this problem was faulty wiring before the meter, Duke power should reimburse me. The wire there belongs to them but it caused problems on the other side of the meter.
Duke Power might plead ignorance but they turned the power on after I bought the house and they check the meter every two months or so. It would seem that since they own that wire somebody might look up and see something wrong. I had noticed the splices but I assumed the power company knew what it was doing.
Any chance I’ll get recompense from Duke Power?
Replies
but I assumed
doubtful you will ever get reimbursed. good luck
Not a chance .... and your reasoning is faulty.
That they connected to the wires at the mast makes it their fault no more than it is your fault because you bought the place.
Such work is typically required to be performed by a licensed electrical contractor, and a permit be pulled. Utility rules also typically require that the wires from the meter to the weatherhead be without splices. If there is recourse against anyone, it MIGHT be against the hack who did the work.
When a service is "upgraded," the usual practice is for the contractor to replace the mast, instal the wires, and make all internal connections. The PoCo only connects to the tails left hanging from the weatherhead.
As for your tenants ....
The electrical codes typically require each tenant to have their own panel, rather than have every unit powered from a common panel that the tenants do not have access to. It sounds like your building may not comply with this requirement.
I can't speak as to your particular installation, but if I saw a place as you describe, I'd run like mad. There are reasons for the rules .... and many unfortunate situations arise when folks put more energy into breaking the rules than in bothering to educate themselves beforehand and comply. I've lost count of the 'handy hillbillies' who figured that the convenience of the moment and the lack of witnesses made it perfectly acceptable to do things that they knew were wrong.
It may not be as much fun to do things 'right' as it is to argue about it .... but a good line of rhetoric never kept the rain off your head.
They may cover it if you can tell them exactly what they did wrong.
I know your concern is to how to pay for this, I don't care, but would really like to know what caused it.
How can a spilice outside the building cause the panel to burn up?
A bad neuteral splice maybe? Wouldn't a proper grounding at the panel take care of that?
There is more to this than just blaming the PC.
It's unclear how faulty connections at the head could cause your panel to burn out. Even with an open neutral scenario the panel would be unaffected -- damage would occur to 120V appliances in the house.
More likely the other way around -- the panel developed an internal arc and that overloaded the service entrance wiring. In fact, the poor connections at the service entrance may have saved your house.
"More likely the other way around -- the panel developed an internal arc and that overloaded the service entrance wiring. In fact, the poor connections at the service entrance may have saved your house."
My thoughts exactly.
Yup, something went wrong in the panel and burned the splices up.
My first thoughts was that someone has replaced the panel and used too small of feeders. And reconnected it themself and that is the reason for the bas splices..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
My wife bought the house four years ago. It's was built in 1940 and at the time of purchase, it had a 200 amp service, which looked pretty new. The house is small--815 sq. feet--with two small bedrooms. Whoever gave me the lecture about getting a separate service for each of my tenants had the wrong idea. The tenants are two Duke students, who share the house.
The electric in the house has worked flawlessly for four years. Both the lineman who came out from the power company and the electrician who replaced the panel think that the problem came from the melted connector prior to the mast.
I'm not an electrician and I didn't do any electrical work on the house. In fact, I've never done any wiring on any of my jobs. The new panel was installed by a licensed electrician and will be inspected this morning.
No one knows who made the bad connection. In 1996, about 90 per cent of the power in this city (Durham, NC) was knocked out by Hurricane Fran. Since then, we've had several power outages, caused mainly by downed trees and branches during storms. We had one ice storm (in 2002, I think) that knocked the power out in my own neighborhood for several days.
It was winter and the temperature went down in the teens at night. It was cold and miserable and, like everyone else in Durham, I was very anxious to have the power restored.
At the rental house, I wonder if someone got impatient with the power company and restored their own power. I don't know.
What brand is the old panel?
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
It's a GE "PowerMark Gold". I saved both the cut-out splice and the burnt up panel, just in case.
The power is back on and everything in the house seems to be fine.
I think the thing to do is contact your adjuster if insured and talk to him. If the house had burnt down you would be talking to them.
You don't have to file a claim just have them look at the situation.
It does not happen all the time but when they wrote the policy they should of inspected the house, have the adjuster bring out the file folder, are there photos in it of a view showing the overhead and meter as it was at purchase do you have any photos?After that the insurance will hash it out, or take it to small claims your self.We had a fire that caused 4 million in damages and one death, in a nut shell a clamp on a high voltage line melted, hot Al droped, caused the grass to catch fire, winds kicked up this was August 09 in the afternoon, fire ran up a hill side, end result several house destroyed.Home owners and insurance blame power company, power company says act of God the winds kicked up, in the mean time the power company sues the city for not mowing the grass (they had to file a tort claim by such a date). The clamp supplier and manufacture will probably be sued too.Here it is in print, probably be in court for years.http://www.idahostatesman.com/1404/story/695435.htmlOne last thought did the prior electrician leave a calling card or sticker on the old box? Sue him or the prior home owner if no record of permit can be found. If you want money from some one except the insurance this will have to go to court.Wallyo
I just received a check from Duke Energy, which paid the full cost of the replaced panel. I want to thank you all for the great advice.
Although most of you were completely wrong, it was reassuring that you spoke with such certainty.
LOL
Congrats!
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
(Did they ever establish a cause?)
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
(Did they ever establish a cause?)
I don't know. I called and arranged an interview (over the phone) with someone who handles such claims. I explained what happened. A couple of weeks later, another person called with some questions mainly having to do with where to send the check and who to make it out to. The check arrived today--three months after the fire.
Wow - Duke Energy most be totally different than Progress Energy. They (PE) are a monolopy and they make that clear....
Wow - Duke Energy most be totally different than Progress Energy. They (PE) are a monolopy and they make that clear....
Duke Energy held all the cards and, had they rejected my claim, I would have been out of luck. I presently have warm, fuzzy feels towards Duke Energy.
man glad i didn't chime in.... main overhead wires to the house ... were bare... i'd seem em spark in high winds... I'd called & reported it... no action.... then one day they just burnt up... leave'n me with just one side hot... ie... 120v on one side but no 240v... so my 240v a/c unit burnt up... all their fault... they came and fixed the wire that night was about 4am when they finished... but they wouldn't pay for any damage on my side of the meter...p
man glad i didn't chime in.... main overhead wires to the house ... were bare... i'd seem em spark in high winds... I'd called & reported it... no action.... then one day they just burnt up... leave'n me with just one side hot... ie... 120v on one side but no 240v... so my 240v a/c unit burnt up... all their fault... they came and fixed the wire that night was about 4am when they finished... but they wouldn't pay for any damage on my side of the meter...
I gotta give Duke Energy their due. They did right by me. You got hosed!
A little detail that you guys should know:
Look at the wires passing overhead to your house. Are they gray in color? Are they more than 10 years old? If so, keep reading ...
Find a place where you can LOOK - but not touch - the wires. Maybe with a pair of binoculars from the ground. Is the insulation cracked, reminding you of an alligator's hide? Can you see bare wire in the cracks? (It's OK if just the outer clear plactic cover is cracked).
Back in the 80's and 90's, many power companies bought their wires from a firm that made a bad product. While this firm is long gone, the wires remain. The problem? The insulation was not sunlight resistant. Power Companies all across the country are systematically replacing this bad wire, and are making emergency replacements if the wires are bad enough.
Chances are, in the event described by the OP, the power company also lost a transformer - big money there!
So, if you can see the bare wires through the cracks, call the power company and let them know.
"Although most of you were completely wrong, it was reassuring that you spoke with such certainty. "
That line is both funny and sad at the same time. So many on the net speak so eloquently and convincingly with absolutly no clue about what they are saying. Come to think of it, so does our President.
So many on the net speak so eloquently and convincingly with absolutly no clue about what they are saying. Come to think of it, so does our President.
LOL!!
never let the truth get in the way of a good story... wait scratch that... ummm errrr uhhhh what i ment to say was...whatever... :) you nailed it
P:)
I don't know that GE panels have had problems. There are some other brands that have been known to catch fire, though.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
In my area (central Ohio) you own to the splices and the splices themselves. Years ago the power company made the final connection at the mast but now you can do it or pay them 3-600 for the job.
So anything that happens splice and into the house is your baby.
A few winters ago I had a flip house that when I asked for the power to be transfered the power company turned it off. We didn't start work on it for a couple months. The house froze and the boiler lines broke up. 8k + in damage. The power company said it was their fault but the have no mechanism to pay for something like that. My insurance adjuster grumbled about that but paid anyway. Not sure I understand that but was glad to get it paid for. DanT
I doubt if you'll get reimbursed. The same question comes up when a power surge burns up or damages TV's, computers, etc.
Runnerguy
Depends on the cause of the surge. While not common, they do pay for it in some cases..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe