Got a customer wanting a price on a new tile floor in her bath, and is asking about warming it up.
What type/brand heating mats or systems have worked well for you?
How about an overview of the process?
Thanks.
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‘what if there isn’t a tomorrow? there wasn’t one today’ – Phil Connors
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Replies
Heck,
I have used Warmly Yours and Easyheat. While both are good products, Warmly Yours is my preference. Other brands I have hearsd of are Nutone and Sunheat IIRC. (Check all their websites). Warmly Yours has a low voltage wire loop attached to a fiberglass mesh 3'wide that you purchase in prescribed lengths. The mesh goes down and thinset is applied over, and left to dry (like a screed coat almost). A second layer of thinset is applied over and the tiles are adhered. The system adds about an 1/8" to 1/4' additional thickness.
Easyheat required the wires being fastend by plastic anchors and spaced apart accordingly (I was not fond of this system). I used an SLC (self levelling concrete) to encase the wires adjacent to 1/4" hardiboard (where there was cabinets) and then proceeded to tile over that.
In either system the size of the area to be heated is critical since the mats and/or length of wires have to be engineered for the correct resistance. You can't cut and shorten it. A test should be made to make sure you have continuity prior to thinsetting. Most systems have cheap battery operated alarms they include that willl sound if a wire is broken.
All and all it is IMO a fairly easy and economical way to achieve a comfortable and warm floor. I have some pictures of a recent install if you want to see.
Toni,If you guys don't mind me jumping in on this thread, I'd love to see your install photos.I'm considering something like this for a small bath (9'x6'). Thanks for all of the info you posted. That really answered the questions I was thinking of asking.SteveTua res agitur, paries cum proximus ardet ~ Horace
I'll post them over the weekend, not at my home computer presently.
Thanks, Tony.
The bath floor in question is a T shape, with one of the T-arms being only 2.5' wide. Would this preclude using the Warmly?
What are the electrical requirements?Waiting to see the photos._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
You can cut the mesh, just not the actual heating element wire. That way you can sort of flip it around corners, etc.They have an interactive floor plan that features different room types including a T-shape room:
http://myprojects.warmlyyours.com/room/floorplanI encourage you to check out their website, it is quite informative. Also when I first used it, I spoke to them on the phone and they were very helpful.I mentioned earlier it was low voltage, I meant to say low wattage. Mine is wired to 110V.edit: Once I needed an additional section and I received it the next morning.
Edited 1/5/2007 8:01 pm ET by TGNY
I just took a look at the website, looks good.Frankly, several other brands look good, too. Maybe there's not all that much difference in the ones that are mats.
However, service from the company (or the lack thereof) can make life easy or hard.
That's why I'm asking about personal experiences.
I assume there is a lead wire that must connect to electric somewhere. Is a dedicated circuit required, or is it possible to tap into power already present in the room?_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
The system is a loop, so it starts and ends at the power source, which is usually a thermostat. Ideally it would be a dedicated circuit, but I have successfully tapped off an existing circuit too. You can use something as simple as a dimmer switch to control the heat or use a programmable thermostat (also supplied by them).The thermostat has a temp. sensor lead that gets embedded in the thinset to sense the temp. from the floor directly. The advantage of the dedicated circuit allows one to switch off the power for the summer so they aren't inadvertently turned on when not needed.
I've used NuHeat mats and they're great. They will make custom and odd sizes. The wires are bonded inside a tight mesh that offers more protection that open mesh type mats, and they bond well to the thinset.
By the way, I don't think that any of the electric mats are low voltage. They are 110v or 220V (but someone should correct me if I'm wrong).
Billy
Billy,
The STEP Warmfloor is a 24V system.
Is there any way to install an electric radiant floor and have a normal hardwood floor on top of it? Is engineered hardwood the only possibility?
Ron
Great -- that would work really well in a shower.
I don't know about regular hardwood floors and electric heating mats. I would be worried about nails, assuming that it would work.
I know they have hydronic radiant systems that fit in the joist bays beneath hardwood floors but I've never used them. You probably should ask the electric mat manufacturers, or check their websites. They are good about technical assistance by phone or e-mail.
Billy
At one time I one of the main brands has systems for vinyl carpet and wood floors. Don't remember the brand or the sepecfics.But I saw it manufactures website..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks, Billy. How long from ordering does it take to receive the product?
_edited several times because I can't type, I can't spell, and I can't proofread______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
Edited 1/5/2007 7:34 pm by Heck
Edited 1/5/2007 7:35 pm by Heck
I think it was about 10 days for a custom mat -- one with an L shape and a couple of cutouts.
They take your drawing and send you a computer drawing so you can double-check and sign off on it before they make it.
Billy
Great. That's pretty fast._______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
Give some serious thought to your pricing. Most of these drasticly affect install time. Also consider the fact that if a tile is damaged during the install, you'll play he11 getting it out without wrecking the mat.
Mike
Good points. I can see already this will be a pricey feature for this small bathroom.
_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
I used NuHeat for a bathroom, Standard size and the thermostat. Not bad at all (sorry I cannot remember the price, but you can see it at the website).
Next time I would set it directly on the subfloor into a levelling mix instead of over the cement backer and in the tile grout....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
I just about to do three baths in my new house and wondered about eliminating the CB board. How thick can the self-leveling mix be applied? I want to get the same height as adjacent wood floors. Can you tile directly to the self-leveling mix?
Home Depot & Lowes carry the Suntouch Line of Heat Mats, We have install over 25 in the past few years!
http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=misc%2fsearchResults.jsp&BV_SessionID=@@@@1401753046.1168055159@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccefaddjkmlmjfhcgelceffdfgidglo.0&MID=9876
Better Link,
http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productList&N=0&Ntk=i_products&Ntt=suntouch
I looked at the Suntouch mats on the web last night, look OK to me. I haven't seen them at our local HD, but now I'll go see.
Is it possible to link up one mat to another?_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
The Suntouch is a special order item from most of the big box stores. You can link them together. It takes about 7-10 days for the Home Depot to get the item for us when we buy.
Little trick we do when installing on a wood floor, we build up the area outside of the mat area with 1/4" backer board & then skim coat the area where the mat is with thinset. Return the next day & start the tile work.
Once you do the 1st one then , you will be wanting the same system in your own Home!
I downloaded this article from JLC. They use self leveling compound
I've seen several brands on ebay sold factory direct... since you don't heat under the fixtures or usually within 6" of a wall... seems like it doesn't take a large mat to heat a bathroom floor... seems like about 50% of the sq footage of the room has heated floor area... and like was mentioned they show on their web site where you can cut the holding mesh so that you can made a standard mat custom fit... you just can't cut the loop of heating wire...
p
I would have never thought about looking for mats on Ebay,
Is there anything you can't find on Ebay?_______________________________________________________________
'what if there isn't a tomorrow? there wasn't one today' - Phil Connors
A SuperBowl trophy for the Cards.
Har har har.
That's it - kick us when we're down and coachless.
Although I guess you could say we've been coachless all along._______________________________________________________________
I wonder where my get up and go went
Might be a good challenge for Bill Cowher. Those facial smirks could motivate the team.
I know I jump every time they show his face on TV._______________________________________________________________
I wonder where my get up and go went
As a DIYer, I did a cable heating system instead of mats because of the lower installed cost (cable is cheaper than mats) and because of the recesses and angles in my layout (mats would have gotten complicated). System I used was from http://www.warmyourfloor.com , same company that makes Suntouch mats. Cable was single-ended, that is both hot and neutral conductors are in the cable so you don't have to make a return loop, simplifying the layout, and yet the cable was still not even 1/8" thick with a full stainless steel ground braid over it. There were less costly cable systems, but the one I chose offered a true 7-day programmable thermostat, and it looked classy versus the plain-jane (and IMO, ugly) thermostats others offered. Install was esay with pre-punched retaining straps. My tile man was nervous about tiling over the heating cables so I floated a self-lkeveling compound over the whole floor and to him it looked like a new concrete floor. System works great!
I'll take a look, thanks.
Too many choices!_______________________________________________________________
I wonder where my get up and go went
After all this I hope the client still goes for it.You're going to have so much information you'll be able to write an article for FHB.