I have a rural property on which I would like to build a shed. I would like to build the shed about 250-300 feet from an existing utility pole that has a transformer on it that feeds an electrical panel mounted on it (the panel fed a house and barn that have since been torn down). My question is: Is it possible to have an electrical line run underground to a new electrical panel in the shed 300 feet away from the existing utility pole or is that too great a distance?
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Replies
Sure. It all depends on how many amps you want and the size of the wire. What kind of electrical load will you have in the shed? Just a light bulb, or are you going to be arc welding?
Thanks for your comments. I intend to put a 100 amp panel in the shed (32 feet by 80 feet). Part of the shed will house a shop. i will need lighting and a couple of 220 circuits as well as several 110 volt circuits. I will check with the electric company, but at this point I'm just trying to figure out if I need to relocate the planned shed.
Just wanted to say: That is quite a shed!TFB (Bill)
Then they can run the primary (high voltage) to the building and mount a transformer there.Either underground or using poles and overhead.And there are all kinds of different conditions and charges that the PO has for this kind of stuff.In some case you will have to do it all either doing (have it done) or paying for it. In others the POCO might put in poles and transformers for "free" or minimal cost. But underground would you would have to pay them.Depend on their tarraffs and how much power they thing that you will use..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Check with your electric company that owns that power pole. For setting another meter, they may do it for very little in order to get a new account.... Now, there may also be a minimum charge each month for reading the meter to that shed, but considering the kind of power/amp rating you'll be getting, you'll have all the 220v you'll need.
Bill
At 300 feet you need #8 copper to reliably get 15a down there (dropping a bit over 6 volts).
If this is just lights and an occasional drill or something you probably don't need that much wire. A single circuit is pretty easy.
If you want to set a panel and a couple circuits life gets tougher.
What gfret said. There are websites that will help with line loss calculations. 300 feet is pushing it, but if you're willing to pay for the large conductors, it will work. I hope you're not going to need lots of sustained high-current loads.
Scott.
Sounds like what was there was a "farm service."
Call your power company, explain you plans and ask them what they will do.
I am on a rural electric and they will furnished the wire and pulled it thruogh my underground conduit for up to 200'. Over 200' I had to pay for the additional wire.
Many pocos are now starting to charge for the meter base, so make sure you ask. Some no longer provide them at all, and you must purchase one fro an electric supply house.
I chose to go underground because I did not want to worry about my service being torn down durring a storm. My neighbor went the over head route and it cost him less thamn my u/g service. The REC will go 1000' overhead with no charge. He squeeked in at 975', but has had his service knocked out twice in the last 6 years. Once was the SE drop from the pole to his weatherhead and hius electrician neighbor rebuilt his torn down mast for him free. The second was a span between poles. The poco restrung that line but did charge him. Don't know how much.
BTW 100 amp might be a little light for a shop. They always seem to outgrow thier service over a period of time.
Please update your profile. There might be someone close to you that knows about your local poco.
>>BTW 100 amp might be a little light for a shop.....<<
That would depend on how many people are working in the shop -- one man wood shop - 100A is more than enough - need more circuits - add a sub-panel in the shop building.
Load: Heat (non-electric), A/C, lighting, maybe a HW heater, compressor, then what - 1 tool plus dust collection maximum for one person.
Exception would be a big arc welder - no longer a pure wood shop and all bets are off. OP doesn't specify type of shop so it's possible.....
Jim Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
You say there is already a pole/transformer/panel.
If that is the case, there is probably already a meter base.
In your shoes, I'd figure out the wire size I needed, then run a new 200 amp panel in the shop, myself, from the main panel at the pole.
Then call the electric company, and ask them to restore service to the pole. Don't make a big deal of it. Just say you'd like the service restored to that address.
They may or may not want to inspect your work.
If you are concerned about them wanting to inspect... Make sure that the panel/transformer/meter base installation is up to code... Call and have the power restored... Then make your own run.
I welcomed the inspection, because I installed to much better than code. (After all, I have to live with it. I want to be safe...)
Mine is a pole, with 200 amp panel and meter base. Once they made their inspection of that, and hooked up the power, they were not interested in inspecting anything beyond that point. From there on in, it is all, the county code inspectors...
Not sure of the local rules where you are, but here all underground conduit must be concrete and all wiring must be copper--aluminum is only permitted on overheads.
Those two requirements raised the price of underground on my place so high that I opted for a standard aerial run. IIRC, the diff was in the neighbourhood of $1200 for a piddling 75 feet.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Concrete conduit?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
concrete encased conduit, overkill for a house, but required for any commercial service under parking lots, driveways, or roads like in malls or office campuses, have added re-rod to it as well, and have always dyed the 'crete Red.
.
.. . . . . . . .
>>>Not sure of the local rules where you are, but here all underground conduit must be concrete and all wiring must be copper--aluminum is only permitted on overheads.Concrete???? Really? Must be a PQ thing.We paid for the 14KV primary to be brought 400 ft. onto our property underground. DB2 plastic conduit buried in sand 2' down with danger tape was called for. We did the excavation, conduit, backfilling and meter base work ourselves. Still, it amounted to a $6,000 bill......yikes.Scott.
Must be a PQ thing.
Now, now, ma petite tête carrée; let's keep politics outta this. ;-)
Hydro Québec will run aluminum a max of 250 feet between poles; and they do that for no extra charge, supplying the alu wire too. But that also means if you're over 250 feet from the mainline you gotta pay for additional poles to be put in, and the additional wire.
If you want underground service, you have to install a pole on your property within 250 feet of the mainline; Hydro will run a drop to that and install their meter base on the pole. They'll only connect you after your own M-E signs off on the buried lines.
My sparky explained to me one time that because the drops aren't fused underground runs have gotta be copper run through concrete conduit. Aluminum is okay overhead because it can dissipate heat in the open air---or something like that.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
They run aluminum underground here all the time. The only issue I could think of would be the potential corrosion.
If you are really going to want anything near 100a 300 feet away you are talking about a real fat wire (something like 1/0 copper for a 7 volt drop).There is a calculator in this package if you are interested
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/info.zip
It is an old DOS basic program but runs fine on XP. Start it with info.bat.
There is a whole lot of other stuff in there, some useful, some not. It was written for IBM installation planning reps.
In my case (this was in '95), we wanted to run 75' for a 200A service. My sparky estimated $1500 just for the copper and conduit with me doing the labour and him inspecting and signing off on the installation.
Plus, we would have had to pay Hydro to install the pole, which IIRC would have been about $250. In the old days they used to allow private contractors to do that but tightened up on that in the early 90s.
One of my oldest friends is a linesman for H-Q. He told me that Hydro Québec's standards are among the toughest in North America; with the weather we experience here they pretty much have to be. You should see the some of the stuff they designed to replace the towers that were destroyed in the 1998 ice storm. The tallest tower they've built is near Tracy, Quebec, for a crossing of the St-Lawrence River to Berthierville: 174.6 metres high.
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Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
>>>Now, now, ma petite tête carrée; let's keep politics outta this. ;-)Hooooweeee. You even got the accents right; must be handy with the Alt Key. :)>>>If you want underground service, you have to install a pole on your property within 250 feet of the mainline; Hydro will run a drop to that and install their meter base on the pole.What if you want the meter base deep inside a property? (because if the meter is way out at the road there would be too much line loss). This was the case with us; the house is about 500 ft from the road so we had to bring the 14KV line to the house.>>>M-E signs off M-E? Is that an engineer?Scott.
Hooooweeee. You even got the accents right; must be handy with the Alt Key. :)
Nothing so complicated. Try setting the Canadian multilingual keyboard as your default keyboard layout (Windows key > Settings > Control Panel > Regional and Language Options); it's standard installed software on every PC sold in Canada. (You still part of Canada out there? I ain't checked recently.... ;-) )
You can set as many keyboard layouts as you like to be available and cycle through them at will by hitting L.CTL+SHIFT.
What if you want the meter base deep inside a property?
The meter base can be anywhere on your property but if I understand the explanation I got properly, Hydro will run an aerial drop to the meter base; your underground run starts from there. So if you don't want a buncha urgly wires cluttering up yer view of the Aurora Borealis, you want that meter base as close the the mainline as possible.
'M-E' is a maïtre éléctricien (or 'master electrician' in TROC-speak...).
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 5/6/2009 2:37 pm ET by Dinosaur
>>>You can set as many keyboard layouts as you like to be available and cycle through them at will by hitting L.CTL+SHIFT.Cool, thanks. Learned something.Scott.
Pas de problème. Bienvenue....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Just a suggestion. Install a new panel in your shed. Run the service line underground and leave enough to go up the pole. Have the old panel disconnected and your new service line connected in its place. This would clean things up a lot.
You have all provided very good information. The reason I'm thinking underground service is because I don't want the weather taking out service and because I don't want a vehicle or equipment hitting an overhead line. Thanks again for your comments.
I hope it works out - when I built my shop, my chosen location was only about 25 feet from the transformer and the house was over 100 feet away. I wanted at least 150 amp service, so I spent a few bucks and tapped directly from the transformer. The power company dug the trench, I had to have a licensed electrician and a permit, of course, for my part.
What they didn't tell me is that the kwh rate is a good bit higher for non-residential use. My seperately metered shop is running about $25 a month for very little use.
Greg