I have a 90+ year old house that has has the old knob & tube service updated. I was just up in the attic and noticed that none of the electrical boxes have covers. Is this a potential hazard? There is some old loose fill insulation up there that seems to have migrated in small amounts right into some of these boxes.
Am I paranoid or is this a real hazard?
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Replies
All junction boxes should have covers on them.
Dave
First note that the degree of risk for something like this is very subjective. Some folks will tell you it's no big deal, others will consider it a significant risk.
My opinion is that: in my house, if I had open boxes in the attic, I'd be most concerned if they were in areas which will have any sort of traffic - people (or squirrels!) walking or crawling by. I'd be so concerned I'd spend the $5-$10 or whatever to get covers and put them on.
If no one ever goes up there I'd add it to my list, but wouldn't expect it to get to the top very soon.
I'd also take a good hard look to see that the splices were properly wire nutted - if the person doing the wiring didn't take the time to put the covers on, was it laziness or some deeper lack of knowledge?
Personally, I'd be more concerned about the "updated K&T" and especially whether there was any remaining electrical hot K&T under the thermal insulation and whether splices to and modifications of the K&T were properly done.
My own view as a home inspector is that if you want to evaluate or play with your electrical system, you have to be willing to dig into your studies; otherwise, hire an electrician. Electrical screwups are among the most serious and dangerous problems I typically see.
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I don't think i was very clear. There is no K&T left, its all modern service now.
The person that installed the service was my Dad. He was an electrical engineer and is now retired. I assume he knows his stuff, but as he did not install residential electric for a living, which is not to say that he has not upgraded residential service before. I just want to make sure there are no hazards.
Any value in getting an electrician to just look the place over? I have no intentions on ever selling, but safety is my main concern. That said, I have the delicate politics of family to dance around. I want some reassurances, but don't want an electrician to "find" problems just so he can get some work out of the deal.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Did your dad pull a permit for the rewire, or did you?
If neither of you did and it was not inspected....... hire an electrician.
No slight to your dads work, but his code knowledge seems a little shaky if he did not install covers on j-boxes. Other issue he may not have known about could put you and your family at risk.
Dave
No permit was pulled. While I trust my Dad's knowledge, I am concerned that he rushed through thinking he would get back to the j-box covers. Eitherway your advice is much appreciated.
what ever the deficiencies, i certainly want them corrected. My concern is in getting an honest assessment so I can prioritize the work. The home is a real fixer upper. A solid structure, but lame plumbing, walls, insulation etc. We are slowly renovating just about everything and very accurately in terms of materials, so its slow going.
Now let me ask, when you say get it inspected - by whom? Do I call an electrician? Am I asking the building inspector to come out? Is this something for a home inspector?
Just ask your dad why he didn't put covers on, he prolly orgot and will do it if next time he's over. Got a few boxes in my own house I've never gotten around to putting covers on, but all those in open basement ceiling with crimps and ideal pullover rubber boots in NM boxes - I notice'em every once in a while and figure I gotta get a cover on those boxes (2), but somehow never got around to it in 30 years<G>.
BTW, those "childproof" thingys- ha! _ DIL found 3 YO grandson with screwdriver removing an outlet the other day 'cause "wanted to see what was in there!!" .
Another BTW, what age do you think is correct to let your kids, etc. get an electric shock for experience (current limited to less than 4 mA fer sure) rather than getting the experience by chance - same thing with fire?
I'd get it looked for the piece of mind. It's gonna be a long cold winter, I'd hate to be standing in my jammies out in the yard watching my only shelter from it burn.Who Dares Wins.
My experience is that engineers tend to be pretty compulsive about stuff like this, but only you can access whether you dad fits that mold.
The "right" answer is to have it inspected, of course.
Some electricians might be pretty cautious in such a situation - they'll be buying the system and installation if they inspect it ....
If it were I, I'd add "get it inspected" to the honey-dew list right about the same location as putting the covers on {G}
Your milage may vary, and I repeat for others reading this that electrical wiring can be and often is the cause of fires.
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I'm matching tool donors to a church mission to Haiti - we're shipping a bus converted to a medical facility in (now it looks like) April and can fill it with clothes, tools and all sorts of stuff needed in that poorest of all countries. A few hand tools or power tools can provide a livelihood for an otherwise destitute family. Please email me if you have tools to donate.
Thanks to Jeff and David and Jim and Rich and Steven and Mark and Jason and Shep and Jen and Mike and Joe for their offers!
The first donation just arrived! Thanks and God bless!
As an engineer (not an electrician), I wouldn't bet on any other engineer knowing the ins and outs of the codes and best practices. Most engineers haven't had any formal training or apprenticeship in home wiring, and often they know just enough to be dangerous (literally in this case).
I try really hard to make sure I know what I'm doing before I start a job, including using these forums, asking professionals, etc... And if I'm not sure, or I think I may be in over my head, I hire a professional.
Obviously not everyone does that. The guy who owned my house before me was also an engineer, and he did some really strange things over the years. Nothing suspicious on the main electrical. As far as I can tell, he didn't touch it.
On the other hand...
For the TV cable wiring he wired several rooms by putting a splitter in one room that had service, and then stretched the coax across the floor, drilled straight through the wall, fed cable through the hole, added another splitter, and then went on to the next room. Besides being pretty ugly, the signal strength in the last room was awful. Needless to say, I cleaned up all that mess, and reran the cable properly.
For some outside irrigation, I just replaced one sprinkler valve that had six elbows in the plumbing where only two were needed. I don't know what he was thinking there.
In the first house I owned, the prior homeowner wired up the attic lights using lamp cord (he wasn't an engineer - just a handyman). He and his wife were pretty proud of the work, though. I still remember (25 years later) her commenting on how handy he was and pointing out the wiring job.
My suggestion - unless you know enough to tell if it was done right... get it inspected.
Id get it looked at. If for anything peace of mind. It would be better for you to talk to a electrician then to be trying to explain to your insurance company what happened.
For the record they should all have covers. You might want to check the fill requirements meaning how many conductors you have for each box.
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