Got home last night to a note saying that when CL turned on the light in sons BR it popped and now there is no power in a 3 rooms upstairs.
Near as I can tell these are all old “snakeskin” circuits most of the rest of the house has been rewired.
All the breakers are untripped and all the wires from the panel are hot.
My thinking is that some where there is a loose feed but i’m having trouble locating it.
Any one got any advice on where I should start my search?
Looks like this winters project might be to rewire the upstairs!!
thanks in advance
Mr T
I can’t afford to be affordable anymore
Replies
Sounds like you may be lucky.....since that one arc took out the whole upstairs it may be the entry point for all of the upstairs circuits.
Mighty fine place to start "digging"!
................Iron Helix
Being as the "pop" was heard I would assume it was in the bedroom. My first guess would be in the light box.
It would be easiest to open the switch and see how many wires enter, if there is a single 2 wire then the hot was feed off the light box. If there is multipule 2 wires in the switch box and you can't see the problem in there it's time to start opening everything up.
Really it should just take a bit of investigation, unless someone hid a splice in the walls.
bake
In either type of wiring the problem is almost certain at the switch box, at the light (or switched recepacle), or the cable between.
I swear I didn't do it..........really!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
And don't forget to turn off the power before you start digging! Somewhere - and that somewhere is what you are looking for, there are live wires that have stopped sending power to other wires, and you don't want to dig into them.
Others here have more experience than I on electrical trouble shooting, but in my limited experience ceiling light fixtures are prone to problems because they get too hot when people over lamp them.
God never gives us small ideas.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Well I been investigating for 3 days(nights).
I have not found a "blown" or loose connection any where.
But guess what I DID find??!!
Aluminum wire!!!
So now I'm in the middle of rewiring the old part of the upstairs!
Ran some 10-3 to a sub-panel in the batroom upstairs.
Man whoever wired this place before, hated himself!
must be 15-20 JB"s in the attic!!
seems like he was using leftover wire, so instead using a longer piece he just put in a JB !!!
There are just as many in the basement!
I just hope there are none burried anywhere!!
I'm gonna be blowing blown-in insulation/snot out of my nose for months!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
You referred to "snakeskin" circuits, which what I would guess is what we call "Rag wire" in my area - older wiring with cloth as the outermost insulation.
And you said you found alum wire, too.
FWIW, much (all?) of the old rag wire kind of looks like aluminum because the copper wired was tinned to prevent corrosion of the copper from the sulphurs(?) in the old rubber insulation.
First time I saw it I thought it was alum, but, so far as I know, the use of the cloth insulation was long gone by the time alum branch circuit wire came along.
I have only seen 1 house in my area with alum branch circuits, so I don't recall what the distinguishing markings are, but I'm certain it's pretty clear in the markings on the insulation.God never gives us small ideas.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Have fun.............I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
were you in my house!!!!???!!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
FWIW, the wire in the lower part of the .004 pic is what I have learned to call rag wire and that is usually (always?) tinned and looks sort of like aluminum wire.
God never gives us small ideas.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
You may be right about that.
But given the condition of the wires/cables and the fact that there are no grounds and 2-prong outlets, it is time to upgrade.
I am going to check out the old wiring tho, just out of curiosity.
another thing that got me worried is that all the old devices are Cu/Al labeled where as all the newer ones are Cu only.
I'll get back to you.
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
Virtually all devices from the 70s were labeled Cu/Al. Their presence simply indicates that the devices were replaced in that timeframe, likely because the old ones were all paint spattered, etc.
I stripped a piece of the cloth covered wire.
it is tinned the entire length.
I thought maybe the sparkies tinned just the ends.
under the tinn the copper is real light in color.
I suspect this is from being tinned before any oxidation could take place.
Found more circuits with no grounds or on the wrong size breakers.
Why would someone go to the trouble of grounding the devices to a box that isn't grounded??!!
Besides ignorance!!??
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore
My understanding is that the wire was tinned during the manufacturing process, before the rubber based insulation was applied.
God never gives us small ideas.
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 10/17/2004 1:17 pm ET by Bob Walker
the rubber technology of the day was far below what is available today and to prevent some reaction between the rubber and the copper they tinned the copper.
I think it was sulpher in the rubber would attack the copper.
Anyway, they don't use rubber any more, they use PVC or other synthetic material and avoid the problem.
N
we have always called it "loomex" refering to the woven cover..same stuff, I like rag-wire..has a good ring to it...lol
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Yes, the stuff in the lower left of picture #004 is loomex, the loomed wire ancestor of romex. It was gone by the mid-1950's. Aluminum wire only existed briefly in the late '60's to early '70's, I remember deciding against using it on my parents' house in 1971. The problems with it were already well enough known at that time. The combination of loomed insulation and aluminum wire never existed, so you can be sure that the loomed stuff is tinned copper.
-- J.S.
Have you checked the lightbulb? Often when a bulb burns out it will short internally, taking out a breaker or fuse. And often the breaker won't look like it's tripped, or the fuse won't appear blown.
Check the lightbulbs in the fixture first, then turn off and on each breaker that might be the one for the fixture.
If not that, then I'd first suspect a broken/shorted wire in the neighborhood of the switch, since that was moved mechanically when the thing went.
Well the sub panel is in and 3 light and one outlet circuits are new.
I have not got to the room where the blowout occured yet, but I did open up all the outlets and switches and I could not find a live wire that was connected.
The wire in question is the old fat cloth stuff with cloth on the individual conductors also.
The hot wire has white with black stripes.
the wire and the insulation are extremely brittle.
So I would just as soon replace it.
Plus I can eliminate 75% of the JBs, which can only be a good thing!!
Mr T
I can't afford to be affordable anymore