I’ve “inherited” an unfinished dirt floor crawlspace that had been partly flooded for a couple of months before they called us. The problem was a plugged catch basin, so it was standing sink/tub waste water (as opposed to more, um, organic fluids).
We’ve fixed the plumbing and it’s dry now, but the sulphury, sewer gas smell remains — especially in the living area above the crawlspace. The plumber says it’ll go away “eventually.” The tenants aren’t prepared to be that patient (or willing to wear clothespins on their noses).
The building is a 100-year old, Chicago-area brick three flat and the crawlspace is enclosed by the foundation. There is some venting. But nothing formal.
I’ve heard lime and gravel suggested. Would borates help?
All suggestions for a rapid solution would be most appreciated.
Thanks.
Neal
Replies
Lime. Go to a masonary supply and buy bagged lime and spread it a couple of inches thick. The bulk of the odor will be gone in 3 days or so and the rest gone in a month tops.
I have used it on a crawl space that had a main sewer pipe from the toilet broken for months. Spread lime over the entire area about 4" deep while wet, odor gone in a week. Organized crime has used it for years to bury bodies in congested areas, you know they would use the best! :-) DanT
That sounds like the answer.I've missed a few episodes of "The Sopranos," so I have a couple of questions.Isn't lime caustic? What if I have to get down there to do more work? (We may have to do vent some of the drains.)The building has a huge footprint, about 25' x 100'. Achieving a 4" layer could be costly. Would a 4" layer over the half of the crawlspace that was wet be effective?Thanks again for help.Neal
FYI
Quick lime is Calcium oxide CaO. CaO will react with water to form calcium hydroxide and lots of heat (exothermic). Very reactive to moist tissue, eyes, mouth, lungs, sweaty skin.
Hydrated lime is made from "Quick" lime, by adding water.
The lime that is used for masonry work is "hydrated" or slaked lime, Calcium hydroxide Ca(OH)2, which is a strong base.
Calcium hydroxide is a strong base and will be corrosive to flesh. This compound Ca(OH)2 is what brings the "burn" to a concrete mix.
Both quick lime and hydrated lime can be hazardous.
Make you own decision here....but I would not like to be in a closed space while spreading out the dust of either....even with a respirator.
.................Iron Helix
How much height do you have in the crawl? Since you have more to do in there, maybe dig out the contaminated soil, lay some poly and pour a rat slab? That can give you a much cleaner and more pleasant working environment.
-- J.S.
About 3-1/2 to 4'.At approximately 25' x 100' this could become a real project.
Well, I was unaware of it being so caustic. Non the less I have used it just as I said many times, and would again, and it works well at getting rid of odors. But I understand your hesitation so...........I know of no other solutions, sorry. Also I said I used 3-4" in a totally wet, as in puddling situation, in yours I would just lay down layer a 1/2 inch or so. DanT
What about some dehumidifiers and heat to get it dried up quickly?
What about some dehumidifiers and heat to get it dried up quickly?
If he has a vented crawlspace, what about opening a vent on either side and installing a blower that could be left on for several days. Air the heck out of the space.
jt8
Yours is a good idea. I guess I had assumed he had tried that already.Never underestimate the beneficial effects of ventilation and natural dehydration to convert funk to soil. As one soil expert said: 'Most this planet had passed through a at least one intestine' It is how things work. Ventilation is also both cheaper and safer than chemical treatments, even ones like quick lime with long histories.
There is another LIME.......ag lime, which is calcium carbonate and is not caustic as the quick & slaked limes.
Ag lime is available at our local quarries for ~$4.00/ton!
When ag lime is applied to moist soils it will slowly react with the soils acidic or basic compounds. It is used to "sweeeten" soils and add calcium to the system.
The other item that is available is called "16-" (sixteen minus) and is a mixture of small stone 3/8" and everthing smaller than that stone size down to and including the dust. ~$7.00/ton
It packs well and would leave a "floor" in the crawl space. Both products will help to abate the odors. Both are very dusty and I would suggest a respirator and ventilation. Add in drying and ventilation and you can have some relief from this problem.
I don't envy you the job of dragging in TONS of crushed stone under a crawl space.
...............Iron Helix
I doubt you have to contend with any dust at all. If you have an agricultural fertilizer supplier near you, you'd likely get what you need for mighty cheap.....comparatively speaking. Then again, you don't have that large of an area to treat so using the "hose-ready" product shouldn't be too bad. http://www.togernet.com/altrum/aggrand_liquid_lime.htm And here's another notion to get the job done. http://www.trisyn.com/ret-cap/ret-rm-cap.htmKnowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
FWIW, as a home inspector I won't go into a crawl space with significant lime without full protective gear.
I don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Edited 12/1/2004 8:48 am ET by Bob Walker
Hmmm. I was concerned about that.What constitutes full protective gear?Is there a less caustic alternative to lime?As always, I appreciate everyone being so generous with their hard-won knowledge and wisdom.Thank you.Neal
Taped up tyvek suit with hood and full face mask w/ respiratiorI don't know about yours, but my church isn't a hotel for the holy, it's a hospital for sinners
Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Yep, that is full protective gear.This situation is likely to require another solution.Thanks.Neal
What about sealing the dirt floor with 6 mil vapor, glued around the parameter, colums, and seams? I did that on the house I mentioned a few weeks ago, and complety got rid of bad smell, though granted I wasn't up agianst the funk this guy is.
It's bound to be cheaper. seems like it would work, especially if the smell will disipate eventually anyway.
st
This may be too nutty/dangerous to try, but how about a layer of compost or peat moss? I know nothing of crawl spaces, this is a composter's thinking.I can cover a stinky anaerobic pile with a layer of shredded dead leaves, compost, or wood chippings. The large surface area adsorbs the smelly organic compounds and bacteria digest them. This does require some limited moisture and temperatures above freezing.
sounds great! later on, they could put grow-lights down there and raise vegetables.
Yeah, no one would ever think to look for "vegetables" there!
"sounds great! later on, they could put grow-lights down there and raise vegetables."
Just look out for them choppers with the infrared cameras.
just put some R-70 insualtion around the parameter, it'll be fine.
If you want to get rid of the odor, go to a rental place and ask for an ozone generator. They use them for fires, dead bodies, etc. Shouldn't be much for a 1 day rental. This way, you don't use any cuastic chemicals. You also need to make sure the space is and will stay dry. If it tends to be damp on a regular basis, you can hang a fan in there on a timer so it doesn't run all the time and cost you a fortune.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 12/2/2004 11:13 pm ET by highfigh
Ozone all the way. Those things really work. I know, I own one and it even eliminates my wife's cooking odors. And she reallly cooks.
Another suggestion is to re-flood the entire area with a mild chlorine solution. Nothing drastic, doesn't take much, just a half cup max per 5 gallon pail. But then you'll never grow mushrooms down there again. Which makes me think that mushrooms might also do the job. Just need to find the spores. Good luck.
Two excellent suggestions.Both sound eminently possible.Of course, if I go the mushroom route, I could probably sell it as a program on the DIY Network. How does "Wide World of Spores" sound?Thanks.
How about baking soda. Can be had in bulk.
No need to go with 4" of lime.
A thin layer will do it. An even and opaque white dusting is what you want.
Wear goggles, gloves and a mask. A Tyvec suit is good. Do NOT get this in your eyes. Keep a pressurized hose nearby in case it gets away from you. If it gets in your eyes, even if you think it might have and you feel OK flush, flush, flush those eyes.
Let it set. It will denature any funky organic matter. If it doesn't work in a day or two repeat the application. After your sure the smell is gone, a month or more, get your gear back on and use a rake to get the lime into the soil. Often light applications will essentially disappear on its own turning from stark white to amber brown. Normal ground moisture will degrade the lime into what is essentially limestone dust.
You're making it sound less daunting and more doable.It also sounds like wearing a full face mask and a snorkel would be a good idea too.I really appreciate having this forum as a place to go for assistance.Thank you all.Neal