How does this sound:
I hired a structural enginner a year ago, highly recommended. He did a soil probe to make sure my soil would allow for concrete block piers and not need wood pilings driven. House is a block from the ocean. Did a nice job, sealed and signed and made recommendations, $800.00. At the time I just wanted to replace the failed cedar post pier, 125 yrs old, holding up the beam supporting the floor joists half way across their span,with concrete. Later decided to lift house, old piers removed and new ones built. Sent him rough drawing and he redid it with all the specs, $200.00 and sent it back in timely manor. That mason wanted 4 times what most guys were bidding so never used that plan. Most recently found mason highly recommended by lifting company. He gave a fair price, but said he would do it slightly different from how the other mason would. He sent me a contract with job description, I went over it with him and than spoke to engineer. He said to fax over the job description with my rough drawing.
One month later I get back a letter in triplicate with his seal, 3 copies of my drawing, and three copies of the masons estimate, $375.00 and he did not do an official drawing of any kind. When I called him, I stated there must be some mistake, his drawing was not included. He said he didn’t do one, that I may have to do a better drawing to satisfy the building inspector. He said he was very busy and that his seal was enough.
I am heading to the BI’s office tomorrow with what I’ve got. Frankly, I don’t care if BI doesn’t. Seems like he wants to be paid but not actually work for it. Again, I will gladly pay the 375 if BI accepts my drawing but you gotta admit, it’s funky.
Replies
it's the seal that makes it 'official'
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As usual, short and sweet! No jibe intended. But come on, IT IS FUNKY!
kevin
You're buying the engineers knowlegde and liability. If he drew a sketch on a napkin that the BI accepted and the mason could build from, that's good enough. You should be proud he thought your drawing was good enough to stamp.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
you didn't see the drawing! I never intended for it to be the"Official" drawing but won't care if it's accepted.
kevin
Yea, I agree it is funky. However, when the rubber hits the road in reality, you're paying for his stamp of approval and with that stamp goes his liability/backing that the construction "as drawn" will satisfy the requirements. The part where he says "that you may have to do a better drawing to satisfy the building inspector" is bunk. The building inspector looks at the stamp, assumes the engineer is correct and uses the stamped drawing as a guide. You can't change anything on the design once it's stamped without getting it re-engineered. That's why you get drawings (plans) stamped at Building dept. so that the inspector knows what plans are approved and which ones aren't. If you could change the plans to satisfy the inspector something's not right, either the inspector is dictating what and how something is built or the engineer does, but not both. In fact, the inspector shouldn't ever go against engineered drawings unless it's the building official himself/herself since they too are often licensed engineers. The inspector is only there to see that the construction meets the minimums of quality and not to change or question plans, particularly engineered plans. At most, the inspector might think something is not right and bring it up to his building official who would then, possibly, ask the engineer to justify his plans but that would be the BO not the BI.
Woodway has it right. You are paying him for the liability and the knowledge, not the artistry.
If the structure failed because it was not properly designed, the engineer can't come back to you and say it was your fault because you "designed" it wrong (Not that some lawyer might not try (G)).
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
I did my own drawings when I removed a wall, closet and moved the entry door to my place. The inspector wanted specs for the beam, clear drawings, dimensions and never said anything about having an engineer approve it. I over-engineered it, doubled 2x6-14' LVL with a 1/8" flitch plate, through bolted with 1/2" bolts, flat washers on both sides and nylock nuts, alternating the bolts on the top and bottom. It supports the ceiling and has no live loads on it. I went into the attic and jumped on it and the guy below said it didn't move more than 1/4", and I'm a horse.
If the engineer stamps it and it can be made from your drawing, go for it. I would see if he'll give you a copy of the calculations with the maximum loads shown.
If you want him to redraw it, you'll probably be hit with a larger bill.
Be careful of what you wish for.
blue
Our Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
Thanks for the replys!
As I said in my post, I don't care so long as the BI doesn"t. I just thought if something went wrong and the lawyers got a hold of it they might have some real meat here, after all it's my drawing with his approval.
Kevin
sounds like you have an engineer i'd want....
actually i have one alot like that... I draw what i want to do and how... and give it to the engineer... he pulls out his charts and secret engineer information and says... "sure but you are way oversize on this, this & this.... but I guess you have this, this and this sitting in your warehouse somewhere...and got it for free...."
he knows me :)
I really like that guy
p
"he pulls out his charts and secret engineer information "
lol
That's my style too Pony. A good Engineer should be able to put his stamp on my napkin drawings because most of the time I don't even get the drawings that clear!
blueOur Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want 50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.
That's exactly how I have worked for contractors. I run calcs, but the drawing and procedures are by them. I have made comments (add a note about xyz...), but it works out great. ...that's not a mistake, it's rustic
This brings to mind a situation I had with my attorney about 25 years ago. I had just started in business, and I wanted to include a phrase on my invoice that would allow me to collect interest on late payments. I sent the attorney a copy of the invoice with my 'rough draft' of the phrase. He returned my invoice unchanged, along with an invoice for an hour of his time (about $75.00 back then, IIRC). I never felt quite right about it, and I never used that attorney again, although I paid his bill and used the invoice text.
Bob