Engineered lumber for open riser stairs
I want to build a 42″ wide, 16-step flight of open-riser stairs. Is it ok to use engineered lumber for the stringers and treads?
I plan to dado treads into the stringers, biscuit on solid nosings, and finish the top of the treads with hardwood flooring. The bottoms and backs of the treads will be covered with 1/4″ veneered plywood.
I figure that way I’ll end up with treads that are about 2-1/2″ thick with a material cost well below what I’d have to pay for solid wood.
I’m not too concenered about the labor component of the cost. I’ll be doing the work myself, and part of my motivation for making my own stairs is the challenge of the job.
That, and living in a boomtown means that lead-times are huge and prices are inflated.
Is it ok to use PSL or LVL on open-riser stairs?
Replies
seen this many a time and it seems to work well...
also the stairs feel a lot mre soild...
but only on indoor use...
the engineered lumber dosen't take kindly to weather exposure...
LVL was product of choice...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
This is indoor use. I was just concerned because I assume that the beams are engineered to be vertically oriented, and I'm turning them 90 degrees, so they would be exposed to bending forces they're not designed for.I tested a scrap of LVL over a span as wide as the stairs will be. I measured a deflection of about 3/32" when two people stepped onto it.I figure with 5/8" of hardwood flooring on that, they'd be plenty stiff.I'm just wondering if this is commonly done. I'm an electrician, not a framer, so I appreciate the advice.
Edited 7/18/2007 4:46 pm ET by Calgary_Dave
yup.. common...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Ditto what IMERC said.
LVL's, and hand pick em if possible. They sometimes have slight cupps, and you don't want to machine them.
Do open risers still pass code? I know my BI doesn't allow them if they fail the 4" ball test.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
They aren't allowed here either. People seem to be getting around it by putting a metal rod across the opening or teeing down matching wood 2 or so inches from the tread. The advantage of the second approach is it strengthens the tread so you can use 1 by material without it deflecting.
Do be aware that your standard LVLs often have a wax-like coating to provide a hair of weather resistance during construction. This coating will interfere with gluing and finishing.
Will do. I suppose I can scuff them up with a belt sander.
We have used them b-4 solid as sears!
The only issue being the fasteners don't hold good driven into the plys, be sure to use a good glueNAIL IT !!!
Calgary Dave.
For a tiny fraction of what LVL's cost, go to a smaller sawmill and ask them to saw you timbers that length.
I can buy white oak timbers that are 12 inches wide by 12 feet long and six inches wide for $57.60 each. I don't know what size your are thinking of using I just gave that as an example..
here's another case.. I can buy ash or hickory timbers 9 inches by 7 inches by 9 feet long for $22.00
(just so you know that's a standard railroad size and the $22.00 is the top price railroads pay for untreated timbers to turn into railroad ties..)
Then you could order a nice three inch thick tread 4 feet wide by 12 inches deep and pay only $9.60 each in several woods. Elm, hackberry, soft maple etc..
Yes these are rough and green at the sawmill and you have to go there to buy them, most won't deliver..
Softwoods such as pine fir spruce etc. are about half price..
Build with them as they are, green wood will shrink in width a little depending on species but not at all in length and only slightly in width..
Cherry wood is about twice the price and black walnut has gone from a can't give it away so let's use it to make pallets to insane prices lately as the Chineese buyers discover it's wonderful properties.
White hard maple has dropped in price lately as well to slightly less than Cherry prices..
Thanks for that, frenchy. Big trees are not so abundant where I am. I guess I could go to B.C. for that, but even then most of the wood is s/p/f.The reason I was leaning toward engineered wood is because I want it to be as dimensionally stable as possible. I'm concerned that if the expansion rate is too different between the step and the hardwood on top, it will separate with time. I also want to limit how much tooling I need to do
Dave,
You'd be surprised at the size of timbers you can get from scrubby riverbank trees.. The real trick is to find a sawmill..
You want a smaller mom & pop type sawmill, maybe a farmer who saws wood part time or whatever..
The reason is my house would have cost me over $890,000 for all the wood I've got in it (that's just wood, not millwork like doors or windows etc)..
If I built a normal house, this size I still would owe the lumberyard about $80,000 for the wood to build this place.. (wood not millwork etc)..
I have less than $25,000.00 in the wood for this place.. black walnut, cherry, maple, white oak etc. etc. that's well over 50,000 bd.ft.
The differance is the price sawmills get for wood compared to what it sells for at the lumberyard.. There are maybe 8 or nine middleman from the sawmill to the lumberyard unless we are speaking about big box stores and they buy in such volume that they cut out the middle men but keep the profit for themselves.. why else do you think they can pay unsuccessfull CEO's the tens of mmillions they do to get rid of them? Heck that sort of money is chump change to the big box stores..
There are ways to deal with the differant rates of shrinkage (not expansion) as green wood dries. Ways that will keep the treads nice and tight. I'll gladly discuss them with you if you'd like.. As for tooling if you are simply making a stairs I think you'd need a hammer, a drill, and a chisel.. Oh, and a saw.
Edited 7/21/2007 4:17 pm ET by frenchy
That sounds interesting. I like the idea of thumbing my nose at the big boxes. I'm building these stairs for friends. I'll pass this on to them.