Replies

1. 
   calvin | Apr 05, 2011 08:35pm | #1

   You mention closer and crash chain...........

   What are you using?

   If not a full service commercial closer, then you should look at those.

   There's back check which will harden the power when open beyond a certain limit.

   And the closing adjustments (more than one) can be fine tuned to almost any situation.

2. 
   DanH | Apr 05, 2011 09:04pm | #2

   A couple of years ago I looked for something similar to a "fall arrestor" for this sort of problem but couldn't find anything.  What is needed is a device that allows free motion up to a particular speed and then begins resisting, like a self-retracting fall arrestor for people working on rooftops.  A similar mechanism is used in seatbelt retractors.

   Was not able to find anything, though.

   Standard "closers" don't really do much good in this sort of situation, since they're generally designed to NOT resist opening, and really only serve to stop the door (suddenly) at the end of travel, rather than slowing it down gradually.

   I don't know why nothing seems to be made for this problem -- the technology doesn't seem to be that challenging.

1. 
   calvin | Apr 05, 2011 09:21pm | #3

   Dan

   Real closers meant for commercial applications whether steel, alum full glass or wood do have the function to stop the door b/4 it bangs into whatever is in the way.  It's called a back check.  It can be set to a certain point in the travel of the door when opening.  It will stop the door there.  Prior to that there is a resistance operation that stiffens the opening power.

   In addition, there's closing power (that first speedy closing which when sized right will close the door in a wind).

   And, in addition again-latching power.  That takes over after the closing power has cushioned it's operation, enough for the final close and latch.

   Readily available.  No need to reinvent the wheel.

1. 
   DanH | Apr 05, 2011 09:29pm | #4

   Interesting, because I watched them try a whole host of closers on the door to our building at my former employers.  Steel door, but it got bent over double repeatedly.  They finally installed a "backstop" with several contact points made from welded steel tubing to keep it under control.

   Note that you don't want to stop the door from opening beyond a certain point so much as you want it to slow if opening too rapidly.  By the time the door's gotten to, say, 90 degrees to the building it's already moving too fast, if the wind has caught it.

1. 
   calvin | Apr 05, 2011 10:39pm | #5

   Dan

   I'm not going to sit here and argue with you.

   Certainly there are situations where a door design cannot be fixed by a closer.

   And, there are certainly poor installations, bogus equipment and other extenuating circumstances.

   However, there are closers that do slow the opening speed and with the proper arm installations can still open when needed while keeping it from swinging beyond the degree desired and in a safe manner.  Certain conditions limit what can be used (ADA opening force), but these can be dealt with using the auto openers.

   I can't say this often but this time I can.  I have installed hundreds of closers in many different configurations of door travel.  Many were in really horrible conditions of use.  With the proper equipment you can make it work.  There's no mileage that may vary.  It can be done.

1. 
   DanH | Apr 05, 2011 11:30pm | #6

   Well, I haven't seen a closer that appears to work the "right" way to really properly handle this situation.  They may exist, but not to my knowledge.

   (And even if the commercial unit is available, one shouldn't have to install a super-duper commercial closer on a residential screen door -- it's strange (and a bit silly) that a proper closer isn't available in a light-duty version.)

2. 
   calvin | Apr 06, 2011 06:29am | #7

   Dan

   Is there anything that suggests this is a screen door other than the "hydraulic closer and crash chain"?

   I see 4' wide solid wood half glass.

3. 
   Clewless1 | Apr 07, 2011 08:30am | #11

   Well ... you might consider an architectural solution rather than focus on the door and hardware. The wind is more than catching the door ... it is infiltrating unconditioned air into the building.

   How about a wind brake ... er I meant break? Conceptually a short wall coming out from the building to screen/block the wind. This assumes you have room between the door and the sidewalk. Need to take a bit of care designing it but it would help.

1. 
   cwcjr09 | Apr 06, 2011 07:25pm | #8

   The wind block is an interesting idea. Site may be a little too tight for that concept but i am going to do a take off and drawings to scale to play around with it.

   As for the hardware: What i had installed was a commercial grade closer for a door of that weight (and more). I guess I will try adjusting the settings/backcheck again

2. 
   cwcjr09 | Apr 06, 2011 08:43pm | #9

   The wind block is an interesting idea. Site may be a little too tight for that concept but i am going to do a take off and drawings to scale to play around with it.

   As for the hardware: What i had installed was a commercial grade closer for a door of that weight (and more). I guess I will try adjusting the settings/backcheck again

1. 
   calvin | Apr 06, 2011 08:45pm | #10

   cw

   What brand and model did you get?

2. 
   Clewless1 | Apr 07, 2011 08:34am | #12

   If you don't have the doors width to erect a wind break, the owner may have other issues ... the liability of the wind catching the door and slamming it into a pedestrian, jogger, etc. that happens to be walking by. Current building codes don't allow doors to swing into a crossing path like that. A more expensive fix ... recess the door (or less expensive depending on the total cost of litigation for an injury). I'm not encouraging anything specific since you are the only one between us that really has the knowledge of the existing conditions. Just food for thought.