If you’re in position to be buying in the current economy I did fairly well in a recent auction from this company http://www.irsauctions.com/. Mostly what I saw was equipment from cab shops and the like closing down. They’re descriptions were accurate but that coul dbe based on local people’s skills with the equipment.
start looking at page 5 or later for the current auctions
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HEY! A Bammer got sold for $76.
I gotta get online.
Mines been gathering dust aloooong time.
Yea but that one worked.....
Life is Good
Mines like new in the case. No wear used all of two jobs.
Make me an offer.
Not a chance, I didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday..... to bad I just gave away my Ryobi detail sander...
could have traded ya.
Life is Good
ya, but then I'd have two.
Maybe you could cross breed the bammer and detail sander... offspring might be something that is actually useful. Nah......
Life is Good
but was it a Gold Plated Bammer?
the 8" looong bed jointer I got went for $525 (slightly more than i wanted to pay but still content with the price). 3/4" spindle shaper for $401.
Was that at the redmond auction? I bought a 32" bandsaw via one of IRS auctions. One of my best machines and I think I got it for under 250.00. I was really tempted by the vertical mills listed at the redmond auction, but things are just too tight right now. No way I could justify that.
Yep that was at Redmond. They relocated to just off exit 51 which is about 20 minutes from me.
Sounds like some good buys.
Some of those items went pretty high tho'.
First time I ever saw a totally online auction of this nature before.
That is what it was or were there also in-person bidding at the site that went on and interacted with the online bidding reported via phone?
All on-line as far as I know. The auction company is located somewhere in the NE (Buffalo or York Pa, it says both on the invoice). The place that was holding the inventory is a very reputable compnay and been in business for years so I'm figuring they wouldn't hook up with scammers.
Since the equipment was local I was able to inspect it as much as I wanted. I like to touch it before I bid.
Prices going high doesn't say anything about the quality of the auction company just the desire of the bidders to get the item. I think some of them were foolish on the prices they took them to but that's their own perogative.
I was looking for a bandsaw and dust collector to go at a good price but they went past my limit quickly. Didn't even bother bidding on either of them.
here's my take: shaper, drill press, jointer.
What did you think was high priced?
Those Rockwells are nice pieces.
I had just noticed the 20 spring clamps that went for $120.
Then again if you needed them...
never did understand the attraction of auctions..
If you're willing to pay the most you win?
I used to have to "protect the brand" at all equipment auctions in my territory selling off Caterpillar equipment.
Not once in 7 years did I ever bring home a piece of equipment. In fact usually my top offer was below the starting bid..
Too often the buyers would pay such rediculas orices for equipment that if the do the delayed maintinace on repairs needed they could have bought a new one for what they paid for 3-4 year old stuff.
Maybe they just like being patted on the back and congradulated when they buy something..
You're right, you gotta do your homework before you even start bidding but too many people get caught up in the emotion.
I always wonder what people are thinking when they buy a used piece for just a few % less than what they can get it for new with warrnaty and delivered to the door.
When you were protecting the brand, how did they figure pricing for you to bid to?
Since they trusted me they simply told me that If I paid too much I would have to sell it..
What I would do is figure the wholesale price we'd pay for it on a trade in or something.. then subtract delayed maintinance and repairs.. Few bidders ever did that.. If I didn't know what a given repair would cost I'd call the service department. What nobody seemed to understand on stuff like tracked vehicles how terribly expensive it was to refurbush tracks.. They'd pay some rediculus price for a piece that needed $20,000 worth of track maintinance. Simply because the engine ran well and the transmission was good..
There are green equipment books out there that give the so called values of equipment but they were pretty far off.. Apparently the price they post is based on a depreciation formula and gives no value for market demand (or lack)
The best deal's were the local John Deere dealer. The dealership headquarters demanded that no piece of equipment new or used should ever have a birthday on their books.. Bidders could buy brand new equipment sometimes for 1/2 of it's actual cost. Or bid dimes on the dollar for trade ins..
Then the next quarters profit and loss statement would come in and the manager was fired.. Never had managment last more than a year no matter how good..
If somehow they managed to meet the goals set up the branch would be inspected and demands made to upgrade.. Management would do the upgrades and next quarters profit would be off! In 3.5 years I never had a manager more than a year.. (none of the salesmen would take a promotion either)
Auctions, ebay and used tool store fronts. My rule of thumb is never pay more than 50% cost of new because there's no warrenty. Very rarely do I end up buying, when I do I get a good deal. Even then it's a gamble.
exactly! Somehow people think that cheaper or lower price is somehow better. How can you claim you got a good deal when you were willing to pay more than anybody else?
" How can you claim you got a good deal when you were willing to pay more than anybody else? "But, you WIN. Everyone wants to be a WINNER.I always liked that auction term. "You Won" an item at an auction.No. You bought an item. You LOST; in fact you just lost more money than anyone else was willing to lose! My FIL loves auctions, he also loves any [other] form of gambling. Let's be realistic, that's what auctions are... gambling.I go to auctions every so often. I have cellular internet on my computer so I can check the going prices (New price/Ebay price/Craigslist price) before bidding. I don't often bid. I do Ebay. Again, gotta be educated to bid. I try to never pay more than 50% new on a used item.Anything to make the gamble more in my favor.DC
but if winning bid is 50% of current price for new, is that still a loss even though it's equipmenbt you can put to good use for manking $$$$?
Or is it better to wait for the retailers to boost the price for new 40% and then put it on sale for 25% off so yo ucan have a new piece?
It is posssible to get a great deal at an auction. You simply need to determine how much you are willing to pay for an item based on condition and don't get caaught up in the emotion. Stick to your price and walk if it goes higher.
Not according to Frenchy. If you're willing to pay more than ayone else you just got screwed so it's bettwer to go buy new at a standard price. You'll pay more but it's better since you're paying the same as everyone else. That is at least according to Frenchy.
We agree on the good deals Tom. That's why I started this thread. Stuff is on 'sale' in this economy if you're in position to move on it.
I should be picking up my equipoment tomorrow. I'll let you know about the motor as soon as I get my hands on it. Talked with Scotty Redmond (Redmond Machinery) today and he says he will be bringing in another load of auction equipment as soon as this one clears out.
everything is always on sale..
the differance is that right now people with money may have more leverage than people with out money..
AS for auctions.. You do realize that they add costs to the item don't you? Those auctioneers and ring men don't work for free or the joy of seeing you get a good deal..
Plus the auction has to pay to advertize and has other overhead items that add to the cost of that item..
If the owner of that equipment sold it for 10% less he'd be better off than taking it to an auction, except in the case of over eager buyers who fail to understnd that an item 1/2 worn out isn't worth 1/2 the price..
Yes that makes sense if you really think about it!
New stuff doesn't break down as often as older used stuff does.. Your time is worth money.. now you can either spend you time fixing or hauling stuff in to be fixed or you can spend your time working and making money..
I'll keep this short so I waste as little time on you as possible.
10% on top of the winning bid is what the auctioneers charge. If you read any of my OP you'd see that I already understand this. But you didn't.
>If the owner of that equipment sold it for 10% less he'd be better off than taking it to an auction,<
and time is money as you said already. If the owners is closing his business he's looking to close quickly and stop the business, not stretch it out so he can get 10% more on the cost. So, 10% to the auctioneer or time spent holding on to the facilities to store the equipment so he can sell it for a hopefully higher price.
Done
I understand why it's done that way for the owner. My point is that with careful shopping I've usually found better deals on used stuff than what auctions get.. all an auction does really is advertize stuff.
Alright, I was just sharing a fraction of my financial philosophy..When it comes to paying for anything, you are always losing.
If you can turn it around and make money with it then it is just an investment.
Some investments pay off better than others.
No matter what, it is initially a loss though.
I have lots of tools/equipment that has yet to make money for me.
But then I have some tools/equipment that has paid for itself several times over.
Again, it's always just a gamble.Lots of Shopsmith owners out there that can vouch for that.
I got one for free, so I am doing well in that department.I know you know what I'm getting at.DC
John,
I've been involved in retail almost all of my life.. In that period I've never seen a dealer rise prices to discount them.. There are too many sources of MSRP on big ticket items.. I won't say it doesn't happen with furniture and clothes etc. because I've never sold those.
Just for information.. typical markup between wholesale and retail is around 25%. ON occasion in large multi unit deals the dealership can sometimes get additional factory participation and discount items some of their profit.. (although they tend to only do it to really gain market share which lowers their per unit manufacturing costs)
I suppose it would be possible in the really down market we're having to get factory participation simply to move the product off the dealers lots but that's cutting their own throats.. sales are off and thus per-unit costs go up and the factory has to discount what they've already sold?
The best deal's were the local John Deere dealer. The dealership headquarters demanded that no piece of equipment new or used should ever have a birthday on their books.. Bidders could buy brand new equipment sometimes for 1/2 of it's actual cost. Or bid dimes on the dollar for trade ins..
Frenchy, Is that still true? If so, how often do they have auctions or sales of that kind?
I've been away from that dealership for over a decade so I don't know.. By the way that francisee was the only equipment dealership I ever heard of with that rule. To me and most in the industry it's foolishness beyond belief.
Last I heard the market was treating that stock like near penny stock..
Realize that what a dealership chain does has nothing to do with the factory.
Caterpillar doesn't operate that way. Dealerships are given a territory and have to stay inside of that completely. Ingersol Rand is no longer in the equipment manufacturing businees having sold it off to GM. (White Volvo division now controlls it) Case New Holland I'm not sure about anymore..
Went to one auction chasing a 12" industrial tablesaw. Passed my max in 15 seconds, sold for more than new and then buyer had the auction house percentage to pay on top of the bid price.Never bothered going to another.
I wish you really understood the inside of auctions.. I've been to auctions where the auctioner took phantom bids. (a phantom bid is one that doesn't exist but the auctioner acts like it did) or bids from staffers acting like buyers.. they are done to shut out the real buyer untill the price approaches what the seller demands..
I've been outside auctions where a few guys agree to bid each other stuff up to silly prices only to "record" a high market price for something.. (then using that price to sell at even higher numbers in a private sale)
One of the really secret things that happens at auctions is where items are sold to phantom buyers and quietly returned to the cosignee following the sale rather than list the item as a no sale.
Bottom line? How can you possibly feel good paying more than anybody else will for an item?
You must go to some funny auctions then.
You city slickers are like that tho'.
I attended most equipment auctions in Minnesota, Northern Iowa and Western Wisconsin.. what I didn't attend someone else from Caterpillar, John Deere, IR, and Case did.
Now I'll grant you that I didn't attend farm equipment auctions becase those weren't the products I sold.. But I'm sure there were buyers from each major manufacturer there as well.
It's called defending the brand and all the major manufactures do it in order to keep resale value of their new equipment up. Some Contractors aren't dumb.. they calculate everything into the purchase equation.. Among things they calculate are resale values.. The smart ones know that the equipment they buy is simply a tool to be used untill it becomes too expensive to own and then they sell it..
They would prefer someone else get stuck with the heavy maintinance bill.
By the way, that's often how we'd buy equipment to take off the market as well. If we oversold a product and the used market was flooded we'd buy them and sell them for parts. (far more profitable then selling whole)
Bottom line? There are no real bargins at auctions except the rare esoteric stuff without a real market. Even then you're up against pros who can read you like a card shark and pull the last dime you're wlling to pay.
no real bargains?
would you pay ~$200 - $300 for a good used Rockwell or Delta table saw with a t-square (Beisemeyer) fence?
:)
Edited 10/26/2009 11:49 am ET by TomW
and I asked for it too. I should follow my own advice.
Not a Delta! I had one of those and spent 2 years on the phone with the factory trying to get the blade to stay square with the fence. In the end I gave up and gave it away to my nephew. An experianced machinist who still tries to find a way to keep the unit from walking under torque.
But as to selling used table saws for $300? I see it done regularly. Especially lately. theres a lot of equipment out there from failed cabinet shops..
nfm
Edited 10/26/2009 1:29 pm ET by john7g
We sold 5 trucks at auction last March. They have in person bidding and internet bidding at the same time. No reserve.
Got one back. They said the bidder (who was a returning bidder) could not get financing. Sounded like he bought a couple million worth. This was during the last part of the credit meltdown. And stock market lows.
Ended up going back in at the next auction and selling for more. YAY!
But, that kinda bugged me.
I don't care to understand the auctions. The psychology involved doesn't favour the buyer and the chance of being the only one who recognizes the true value of an item are pretty slim. I do much better sniffing out good deals on my own.
Amen!