Equipment choices for a grading company
I’m looking for a bit of advice on equipment choices for a driveway grading business.
In my area of north Georgia, seems like there’s a serious shortage of outfits that specialize in gravel driveway maintenance . Many drives here are 500-2500 feet long, up the sides of some pretty serious hills, to log cabins. Most homeowners simply have a few dumptruck loads of gravel spread on top of the ruts, or hire some large grading outfit, more suited to excavation and clearing, to work the drives with relatively big dozers and backhoes. Seems there’s a niche market for someone who can cut a few ditches and place a few culverts without spoiling the natural beauty of a 12 foot wide drive through a hardwood covered hillside.
I’ve got some experience operating equipment for an excavation company doing general site prep and septic work for mountain homes – specifically a JD 310SE backhoe, 550 dozer and 455 loader, but it seems to me that smaller equipment might do a better job with less damage to the environment. I’m considering getting a couple pieces of equipment and going it on my own.
I’m thinking of buying a tracked skid steer loader with a couple different attachments and a mini excavator or possibly something like a JD110TLB with a thumb on the hoe and a good sized boxblade to handle the ditching and culvert work that makes or breaks good drainage in hills like these. I’d think a 4WD tractor with a decent blade would work well for simply sloping and crowning drives, but would come up short in cutting through the rock outcroppings and tree roots that typically flank the banks of most drives. I’d hate to buy two pieces of equipment if one would do, but I don’t want to rely solely on a skidsteer and have to rent an excavator twice a week to cut a bank or dig to place a culvert, either. I’ve also pulled too many trees with a big backhoe equipped with a thumb to ever want to rely on a hoe without one. I don’t think a skidsteer mounted hoe has the reach necessary to handle deal with trees on banks and I’ve never seen such a hoe with a thumb.
I’d appreciate any advice someone in the business could give me on sizes/brands of equipment they use for similar work.
Littledenny
Replies
What's a "thumb"?
The opposing digit on a bucket, enabling it to grasp things.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Thanks.
In my area of north Georgia, seems like there's a serious shortage of outfits that specialize in gravel driveway maintenance .
Hi LD,
My experience probably isn't more extensive than yours. But since you asked....
First you mentioned driveway maintenance, then you were talking about moving trees. These really are two different operations, requiring different equipment.
I use a Cat track loader for installations, followed by a grader that those in the neighborhood deemed to "have come over on the Mayflower". My only hoe is landsape-sized and I'm content with that. Recently I bought an industrial Cat rubbertire loader that I believe will replace the crawler, but that remains to be seen.
For maintenance, a blade on a farm tractor works, but not very well. Regarding a skidsteer, my last house client bought one against my recommendations. He found it too short wheel-based and nowhere near enough traction on snow short of chains, which really do a job on the finished driveway. Track would have helped. Looks like it's going to a new home soon, complete with all the correct attachments for what he was trying to do. I had recommended an industrial rubbertire loader, which around here are considerably cheaper than farm tractors. And a whole lot more difficult to tear up.
My ideal grader is a Huber grader/maintainer with a front dozer blade. But even used, they're more than I want to pay for. You seem to have no qualms about significant machinery investment. I only buy what will pay for itself, and quickly. Low overhead works best for me. Then if it sits idle for awhile, no sweat.
Large graders are cheap. I passed up a functioning one for $500. Too big for the driveways I work on and way too big for any trailer I want to own. So I keep managing with my little grader (originally horse drawn). Main drawback is that it requires an operator, meaning I have to have a tractor driver to pull me. Hydraulics could solve that, but I haven't done it yet. Crowning, ditching, leveling, stone redistribution are all very simple.
My learning was on my own ½ mile driveway, put in by a guy with a good reputation, that was unfortunately incompetent about going up a mountain. It's now rerouted. As a result, I've gained a reputation as the go-to guy for difficult driveways. A new driveway survey costs $600, plus installation.
The common driveway maintenance problem is improper siting of the driveway in the first place. Then comes the fun part of figuring what to keep and what to replace. And fitting in the customers' budget.
I hope you've considered the whole business aspect. Buying a piece of machinery or two doesn't make a business, even if you're an excellent operator. Good luck.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Appreciate your comments, guess I need to explain a bit. In this neck of the woods, it's pretty common to simply doze a driveway up the side of the hill. Given that the acreages are big, logical paths wind around boulders, and follow the contours. In other cases, lots are small, and drives follow the shortest path, ignoring all thoughts for drainage, springs, and other obstacles. Most people cheap out when cutting a new driveway, since utilities follow those paths and at 8-10 bucks a foot for underground cable few want a 1000 foot drive when the house site is 600 foot crowflight from the road. Usually the road is cut into the side of the hill, no wider that a dozer blade, so often there is no "drainage ditch" between the cut side of the hill and the 9 foot of gravel that constitutes the driveway. Often the downhill side is simply the spoils from the cut, and nothing else, usually dropping off rather steeply. My own drive is just that - 2650 feet long, 9 feet of gravel between the bank on one side and the drop off on the other, trees no more than 12 feet from one side to the other, and a gain of 300+ feet in elevation, yet I can get a 22 foot trailer behind a long pickup up and down that drive. (4WDs outsell 2WDs five to one around here.)
The part about taking out trees is just that. On an "established drive", tree roots were cut in the original grading and then the trees were left to either die or survive. Maintaining these drives usually involves widening the edges, meaning taking out the trees that have clung onto the banks, recreating a bit of drainage on the inside of the road, sloping the road a bit high on the outside, installing a few culverts in the low spots, and leveling out the rain washes. Properly done, it usually requires a bit of work to fill in the washes with new base and repacking a top surface of gravel.
So, that said, I need to find a mix of equipment that can handle a bit of everything.
Yes, I have a bunch of fellow operators who have the big machines to doze where necessary, and can drag in a track hoe to do the deep reaches. I'm on a first name basis with all the local rental guys, as I'm presently the manager of an excavation crew working for a home builder. I'd love to have a good grader, but most wouldn't be able to make the turns in the switchbacks, even if they articulate.
That's why my original question - I'm familiar with what the big machines can do, but not so smart on what some of the newer, littler machines can do. I'd think that a small backhoe and a good boxblade will handle most of the work, given that I can get other machines as necessary.
Guess I was more looking for recommendations about something like the JD110TLB vs. something like a Massey or Kubota, which to me looks more like a farm tractor with a backhoe available rather than a serious big backhoe substitute. Is a 110 worth the extra money in terms of ability and stoutness? Better to have a tracked skidsteer, or wheeled?
Anyway, thanks for the suggestions so far, all of you.
Littledenny
An afterthought - you bring a good point about the business aspect.
I've working in the dirt business here for a while, and think I've got a feel for what the competion is doing. I'm currently working three different projects for my present boss, doing the right things with the wrong equipment, because that's what he has to work with. Seems like the local market has either short end hacks smoothing off the bumps with a drag and leaving the underlying damage, or guys who drag in a D9.
Incidently, I've cut more than a few of these drives , but I'm only looking to maintain and improve drives in this new business, not cut new ones, so, don't think that big equipment is necessary. Still, I know that improvements to bad drives will involve digging some rock and pulling a few trees, so I want equipment that will stand the strain over a few years work. I'm willing to invest a few bucks for a machine that will last a few years, and the old Army motor pool mentality that I have means that I know how to maintain things, like greasing at the end of the day, when things are warm.
Plan to incorporate, get the permits, do things right. Point taken on good operators don't necessarily make good businessmen.
Anyway, thanks to all so far, glad to see guys willing to help each other out.
Littledenny
I'm willing to invest a few bucks for a machine that will last a few years, and the old Army motor pool mentality that I have means that I know how to maintain things
LD, that brings up an interesting point. I use an M35A2 with a dump under the original bed to haul machinery. Not fast, as you know, but will go where I point it. I've also learned how helpful that winch can be.
I know little about new machinery. Was talking to a guy with a shiny Cat track loader one day. Nice machine with AC cab, fast. He said he had $200k invested. He gets $75/hr compared to my $55/hr for my $7.5k 933 investment. Who's making more money?
Had occasion to be working the other end of a trailer from a (3x my 933 size) excavator one day. He was pulling, I was pushing. Naturally I couldn't see a thing but the azz of the trailer. Halfway up the hill the owner came running down shouting to stop. I'd pushed the excavator off the road. Still not sure how that could be. But there he was, trying to get out of the ditch, back in the road.
My take on self-employment is that almost everybody needs to try it. Few will be successful. The largest problem seems to be getting enough billable hrs done per week. Hope you're among the few. Watch your overhead.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
around here on heavy equpiment, everybody buys new and then trade in every two years to keep the maintance cost down low. I know it good to own outright but then you cannot depreacate and upkeep is almost as much as a new machine.
Edited 2/17/2004 1:36:25 PM ET by BROWNBAGG
upkeep is almost as much as a new machine.
If mine was, I'd be changing my plan, but it's nowhere close. Even the major companies here keep machines longer than that. Depreciation is also for enlarging the fleet, not just replacement.
What happens to those 2 yr olds if everybody buys new? They headed overseas? Or to Virginia? I'm real happy somebody buys new, otherwise there wouldn't be anything for me.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
VaTom:
I like you already, appears that you're a thinking type.
I'm wrestling with two opposing concepts: My father's lifelong advice to buy the best you can afford, and then take good care of it ( advice that has never failed me - I'm still happy with the 100 dollar tablesaw he advised me to buy some 30 years ago ) and the concept of buying something used. Believe me, I'm watching equipment trader for a deal, but seems the particular piece I'm looking at is relatively new and seems that present owners are quite proud of them. Think for this particular application, a big machine is too much for the job, and I don't want to pop for a truck and trailer to handle a 15K+ pound load when the little one fits nicely on the trailer I have. So, I'm left with looking at used small tractors with "will fit" attachments, or a piece that appears to be designed to function like a "real" backhoe. Still, your advise to watch the overhead is good.
As for the M35A2, wish my present boss would wise up to that - We're trying to make an old Ford 9000 road tractor perform the functions of an offroad dumptruck. This thing is stuck when the hounds mark the tires. Was just saying the other day than an old 6x6 engineer 5 ton dumptruck would work perfectly for the jobs we do.
Roger the idea that everyone wants to go it on their own once in their lives. Spent 26 years in the Army, and now want to be on my own for once. Was tired of sitting in a little room without windows, working two computers and doing things I can't talk about - now really happy to be out in the sunlight (read rain, these days) taking out 80 foot trees with a JD310SE - still, I see that eeven the so called operators around here could learn a few new tricks, think I can make a go of a niche market. Present boss has 300K worth of equipment sitting on a job that we can work at best 3-4 days a week this time of the year, while either renting or hiring others to do the little jobs we can't get to. I want to be one of those guys that picks up these in and out jobs. I'm doing the research to make sure there's a market.
Got a friend here that's turning away work because he wants/needs to work only 3-4 days a week. I'm wanting to buy equipment complementary to his, and know he'll throw me enough referrals to make the first couple payments. Figure inside a couple months, I'll either begin to establish my own reputation or get no more calls. But I figure I can make enough to do better than the present chump wages I'm getting.
Anyway, thanks again for the opinions.
Littledenny
I like you already, appears that you're a thinking type.
Thank you. I try. Not always successfully. And what works for me, may not for anybody else.
I'm wrestling with two opposing concepts: My father's lifelong advice to buy the best you can afford, and then take good care of it ( advice that has never failed me - I'm still happy with the 100 dollar tablesaw he advised me to buy some 30 years ago ) and the concept of buying something used.
I don't see these as opposed. I also buy the best I can afford, just prefer used. It means I can afford to buy substantially better. I run a Unisaw (bought used), likely a bit better than yours, and have acquired a (used) 12-14" Rockwell that makes the Unisaw look wimpy. The Unisaw will resell for 2-3 times what I spent on the 12-14". And it's no accident I own 2 Cats, total investment $14k. No problem if they sit idle for awhile.
Think for this particular application, a big machine is too much for the job, and I don't want to pop for a truck and trailer to handle a 15K+ pound load when the little one fits nicely on the trailer I have.
Good plan. This goes along with keeping overhead low. I recently bought a (used)trailer (cheap) with a 41,600 lb. load capacity. I'm not thinking of buying a tractor that heavy. Nor would I want that much behind my M35A2 ($40k new in 1969- a lot more than I paid), which isn't going to be upgraded.
Got a friend here that's turning away work because he wants/needs to work only 3-4 days a week. I'm wanting to buy equipment complementary to his, and know he'll throw me enough referrals to make the first couple payments. Figure inside a couple months, I'll either begin to establish my own reputation or get no more calls. But I figure I can make enough to do better than the present chump wages I'm getting.
Sounds good. As I suggested, most need to try. What's the worst possible scenario? You fail, maybe with some debt, and go back to wages. Life could be worse. Watch your overhead and give it a go. Good luck.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Edited 2/17/2004 8:55:31 PM ET by VaTom
re:
"Recently I bought an industrial Cat rubbertire loader that I believe will replace the crawler, but that remains to be seen."
The Army's FCS program (Future Combat Systems) has run numerous trade studies on survivability and 'get to where ya gotta be' studies on metal tracks, rubber tires, and rubber tracks. The winner was rubber tracks.
Me being just a DIY with only one old diesel 440 track loader and a 440 track 'poppin johnny' dozer, I can relate to the pro comments about maintenance. I figure I spend an hour maintenance for every hour I run those old machines. I got sick of trying to start it so sold my 1934 D2, everything on it was still running great but that pony engine magneto sure could fog up inside and need disassembly to get running if not started for a few day (or weeks).
Edit PS: reread the thread and nobody mentioned the laser guided/controlled hydraulics. First time I saw one of those on a JD 350 doing sidewalk grading in '77 I thought it was really slick - flatter than anybody I ever knew could do manually.
Edited 2/17/2004 9:57:12 PM ET by JUNKHOUND
Me being just a DIY with only one old diesel 440 track loader and a 440 track 'poppin johnny' dozer, I can relate to the pro comments about maintenance. I figure I spend an hour maintenance for every hour I run those old machines.
LMAO!!!! My first crawler was a gas 440 loader. Traded a truck to get it. I got to where I could replace the final drive bearings in 2½ hrs., by myself. Waaaaay too much practice. Was trying to reroute a major stretch of driveway, dealing with 80' trees that could only be worked from one side on a steep slope, when I realized I really didn't have an adequate machine. Almost felt guilty taking $5k from the guy who couldn't wait to get that 440 home. How many carb butterfly shafts have you replaced? And water pumps rebuilt? You have my sympathies, although with 2 you must be a glutton for punishment. <VBG>
I'd spent $7.5k on a Cat twice that size, which was balanced. Still a little small at twice the weight of the 440, but I could work it to stall without breaking anything. Major improvement. I have yet to become as familiar with it as I was with that 440, fortunately.
That's interesting about the rubber tracks. Not sure what to make of it. Of course the army has machines considerably larger and newer than mine (vintage 60's). Maybe in another 30 yrs they'll be available for my price (I know, very optimistic for an old fart), like my deuce-and-half. That's assuming a similar longevity. Major assumption. I'm mostly looking at maintenance costs. Steel track is considerable.
Laser guided sounds great. Not anything I've experienced. But I also rarely do anything on the level. For me, a house excavation within 2" is OK. The guy who did mine was off over 18". At the time I didn't know to complain. Not a small problem for me later. Gotta pay to learn, right?PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Had to replace injectors on the GM diesel once. The track loader I got off a mountaintop for $1200 as-is where is- both final drive cluthes were rusted solid shut but it started right up after sitting for ten years winched it sideways and droveit onto the trailer.
The 4409 dozer witht he gas is at my cabin near Mt. St., Helens. I snagged the cap off the exhaust once and did not replace it right away, as I have a shed to park it in. Anyway, only get to the cabin 1-2 times a year, and a 90 MPH windstorm blew a section of the shed roof off - the edge was right over the exhaust, froze the engine so had to pull it to get it working again.
Rolled it about 60 degrees once 25 years ago when the kids dug a 'tank trap" in the back yard, tranny oil ran into the final drive so had to pull that and clean the oil off the clutch.
I get good at putting one of the loose tracks back on - the hydraulic piston froze and the cast broke with grease gun pressure, have never 'gotten around' to replacing it.
The attachment is a well drilling rig I built to bolt to the back of the loader, would have been more cost effective to hire the well drilled, but it was quite a learning experience. The little girl is grand-daughter a few years back, she sure loved it when we tested the well for 29 GPM for 8 hours. The drill ing arm is on a '76 datsun and '72 Impala cobbled together.
Oh yeah, to Bill H or other former advocates or sparkies, if you see this, the electrical cables strung all out qnd in the water around the pix of my grand-daughter are unplugged. I may think myself 'immune' to elec shock <G>, but I sure never assumed GD would be.
Re:
" I had recommended an industrial rubbertire loader, which around here are considerably cheaper than farm tractors. And a whole lot more difficult to tear up."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
could you give a couple of examples of makes and models of the above?
thanks,
ldc
could you give a couple of examples of makes and models of the above?
I considered a Case W8, a Case W24 that was way too big, a Scoopmobile (gotta love that name) that I learned was tippy even on flat ground, and my Cat 944. All these were below $7k. In addition I inspected a couple of gas engined smaller Hough loaders for a friend that were $1.5k. Didn't run into a JD, but they're out there. All are 4x4. I intentionally stayed away from the articulated ones, primarily to get the better stability of the straight chassis. Hough made a lot of loaders that aren't 4x4, and they're close to worthless.
No idea why, but these older loaders have almost no interest shown in them. I almost bought a 4x4 Case farm tractor, maybe 75hp, with loader for $13k at auction. It was a very good price. Ended up instead with a Cat 944 for $6.5k. It's 4 times the tractor and has the 4-in-1 bucket I wanted. I was discussing this recently with a guy who grew up excavating. He had no idea these things were so cheap. Never looked into them.
My little farm tractor has suffered multiple abuses of my over-using the loader on it. To the point of ripping the whole front end off twice. I've re-engineered it to solve what I consider gross under-building, common on farm tractors. Also dealt with a monster JD with the same problem.
If you need a PTO or 3 point hitch, the industrial loaders won't do. That's why I kept my little guy (worth more than the 944 cost). If you want to do serious loader work, well, that's what they were designed for. Farm tractors got a loader stuck on without beefing up the fronts. Something else very peculiar I found in my loader search was never, ever, functioning brakes. Guys broke them, usually by tangling brush around the lines, and didn't bother with the repair. Just used them as is. Apparently the transmissions held up fine anyway. I'll be installing a brush belly guard. Oh, and unlike farm tractors, these loaders brake all 4 wheels.
The guy who sold me the 944 assured me brakes weren't necessary, until he delivered it and was shocked at where I wanted to run it, on my mountain. Then suggested maybe I should repair the brakes. Called the following morning to see if I'd survived the trip up the mountain. He also had a beautiful articulated Cat with a 12' wide bucket with rock seive that he offered to me for $13k. Much too big, including too tall, for my needs.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
" I intentionally stayed away from the articulated ones, primarily to get the better stability of the straight chassis. "
I would echo that sentiment.
I've had the pleasure of plowing out a few ditched with articulated loaders while trying to plow snow. Get 'em a little bit off level and they're about worthless.
Pushing anything with them is also difficult if you aren't lined up straight. Especially on a slick surface.Time is Nature's way of keeping everything from happening all at once.
I've had the pleasure of plowing out a few ditched with articulated loaders while trying to plow snow. Get 'em a little bit off level and they're about worthless.
Good to hear a voice of experience. I'm not. Had the great fortune of meeting an Australian on a tractor list who has extensively varied experience and an incredible memory after operating industrial machinery for the last 30 yrs. He guided me through my selection process after asking the right questions about what I wanted to do and where I wanted to run it. Included were suggestions for modifications to suit me better. Like a ripper for the rear, if I can figure how to mount it.
He had experience, for instance, that the Scoopmobiles would sometimes overturn on flat ground, and knew the mechanical reason why. My preference was for another Cat and when I mentioned one he hadn't suggested, the 944, he was embarrassed he'd forgotten them and told me to get on over and check it out as the geometry and size was well matched to my needs. Clearly I'll be doing a lot more backing up to maneuver than if I had an articulated machine, but if it stays shiny side up, that's OK. Getting used to rear wheel steer will take some time. So for awhile I won't take it very close to anything I don't want to move.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Interesting that you mention scoopmobiles:
I spent a summer operating one while working myself thru school, nearly thirty years ago. Wide eyed kid, playing with the big boys, loading trucks out of a sand pit, no more instruction than "here's the key". No one ever told me not to sideslope one, and never seemed tippy to me. Anyway, had a full bucket, loading from a downslope up to the truck when one of the lift cylinder caps blew off, front window spattered with cherry juice, and my pants loaded within a nanosecond. Always liked that machine, because it was more forgiving than the old Michigan it replaced. Other fun time was learning to run a Wabco scraper. Boss told me to treat it like an old woman. (What did I know about old women- I was 17, and just happy chasing cheerleaders.) Anyway, this was the old stuff, toggle switch steering, no ROPS, no brakes, etc. The cover over the generator broke loose one day while I was bouncing down the haul road, shorted out everything. I was again contemplating my early demise when presence of mind told me to drop the pan. Amazing how well that works as a brake when all else fails.
Now, after 26 years of service of the Army's Transportation Corps, and watching over teenagers moving everything except gold and nuclear weapons, guess I'm a bit smarter about operator training and safety appliances. Be interesting to hear about other's experiences in learning to operate. Old guy once told me that it takes 10 minutes to learn to run something, maybe a lifetime to operate it. How true he was.
Meant to take the camera today to take a couple pictures of my current project. For those of you who operate in hills, you'd understand. For the flatlanders, there's a steep learning curve for working slopes and dropoffs. (No offense meant here - I was a Montana boy working Iowa flatlands in my early years of operating, but now working the hills of North Georgia. Keep telling the locals that these are really only hills, not even close to real mountains, but guess a roll off a 20 foot bank can be as bad a a roll off 200 ft.
Littledenny
Interesting that you mention scoopmobiles:
I spent a summer operating one while working myself thru school, nearly thirty years ago. Wide eyed kid, playing with the big boys, loading trucks out of a sand pit, no more instruction than "here's the key". No one ever told me not to sideslope one, and never seemed tippy to me.
Hi LD,
I dug out the main information Deas sent about Scoopmobiles. He wasn't saying they were deadly on flat ground, just more tippy than others. I'm not sure if he knew how they'd tipped on flat ground but for my use, well, have a read:
"The Scoopmobile is different -- I don't know if you noticed or not. It has a swivel arrangement in the front section, ahead of the center pivot, through which the front drive shaft runs. This swivel allows the front and rear sections to be on different planes while still keeping more or less equal weight on all four wheels, the same as the pivoted rear axle set-up. Unfortunately, it also allows one section to start to tip without the other --- until it reaches the stops --- when it may very well take the other section with it. #### up is not a good look. The system is fine on reasonably level ground, but just plain bloody dangerous on slopes.
Because the swivel is in mid-frame allowing around HALF the machine to oscillate, there is also not the same weight available rigidly fixed to the front axle to hold it down on the ground. It's a recipe for disaster on slopes."
The biggest problem I've encountered trying to hire an "operator" wasn't eye/hand coordination. Pretty much anybody can load stone. It was getting the plan into their heads. One guy was very proudly bragging to his buddies that I'd bought a Cat for him to run. What I wanted was a driveway that was navigable in 2wd. After explaining, and showing, cut on the high side and fill on the low side, I took off to do some drainage maintenance with my hoe. I could hear him doing something but after a few hours he came walking down to find me. Looking disgusted, he told me I didn't owe him anything for the morning as he hadn't done a damn thing. He was right.
So I showed him again. And he tried it while I watched. Never caught on. I didn't know any other way to explain so we gave up. I ended up cutting the whole driveway. I'm pretty sure he'll never be an operator in the sense you, and I, mean.
You're right about that learning curve. My first crawler, the JD 440, was dropped off at the bottom of my driveway. Delivery guy said "There you go." and was ready to leave until I stopped him. No steering wheel and I had little idea how to make it go. He gave me a few pointers, particularly what not to do. I've had a few pulse elevating experiences, but no serious problems. Found that the truck winch would haul the azz of the Cat sideways, twice. When you run one track on fill on a steep slope and the fill slips, it'll get your attention. Especially if you're leaning over so far the Cat can't crawl out.
I generally give a disclaimer about this mountain being what passes for such in Virginia. I grew up in the west. But a 120% slope is steep anywhere. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I've run the 110, a few compact excavators, and most of the common skid steers. They all have their place.
You mentioned the JD110 TLB, I'd have to say that for what you have described there is not a better machine in terms of quality for the price, and for versatility and power in a compact TLB. It is remarkable for its size, and would probably do everything you need.
If you were working in close quarters, I'd lean toward the compact excavator and skid steer, but for driveways I think you're going to make more money with the 110.
The only drawback to the 110 is noise. It is LOUD for a small machine, so consider an enclosed cab with air conditioning.
If you can find a used compact motor grader you would probably like that, too. You can find used Fiat-Allis all over for under $12,000, given the niche you have described, I'd bet it would more than pay for itself.
If you work in mushy conditions, take a hard look at the ASV or the CAT 287. They each have their plus and minus. They run the same U/C, made by ASV. I have stepped out of an ASV that seemed like it was doing fine and sunk up to my knees.
My footprint is about 5.5 psi (size 13 feet, 180 pounds), and I could not walk where an ASV will track with no trouble.
DRC
Almost everyone around here who does that has something like a Kobelco excavator with a thumb and a couple of different buckets, towed behind a ten yard dump. There are lots of outfits doing exactly what you're describing and they all have the same size machine.
A friend of mine went into business and got a smaller machine, a Kubota backhoe/loader. The big rubber tires do less damage and it's a lot easier to manuever when space is tight. When he needs more muscle he knows ten guys he call call on a cell phone to come in with the big beast for an hour or two, break a ledge, rip out a tree, move a boulder, etc. He sticks with owning the one small versatile machine that will do most things and makes sure he knows guys with the other stuff.
The thing I'd consider is how much you really want to spend and how much you want those payments to be. If you're new in your own business, you need to concentrate on selling your work and keeping your overhead down. I'd go with one modestly priced machine that will do as much as possible, and team up with subs for everything you can't do. Trust me, there are a dozen guys with big machines and big payments on them that want to pick up work. You cultivate those relationships and if someday you find that you need an excavator everyday, you buy one. For now keep your costs down.
That's my rant. Let's see what others say.
An afterthought; whatever you buy, put a hydraulic thumb on it. The fixed thumb is better than nothing, the hydraulic thumb doubles the machine's usefulness.
As for track machines, take a look at the Takeuchi and the Gehl. The Gehl U/C is made by Takeuchi. Rubber tracks are a real pleasure. They don't tear things up as bad as steel, they are quieter, and the machine can go almost anywhere. There are lots of different rubber tracks, the cheap ones are garbage, the better ones hold up remarkably well to severe abuse. I have run rubber track machines (the outside of the track is rubber, the inside is steel) through cracked granite, they got a little cut up, but nothing terrible.
You can sometimes find used Takeuchis cheap. With a six-way blade you can get a lot done.
DRC
Check out Kubota articulated loader with backhoe. I owned one and it was the most diversfied machine I ever had.
Frontend loader bucket, pallet forks,3 point hitch various attachments. Backhoe moves side to side very convenient, for digging next to basement walls or ditch work.
Doesn't have the breakout power of rubber tire backhoes, but it doesn't get stuck like skidsteer. Will get into very tight spots which is a real plus.
If i remember it will dig 9' deep and will handle 2' bucket
i would buy another one in heart beat if i needed a machine that was multi tasked, and rent or lease backhoes or dozers when needed
"I'd think a 4WD tractor with a decent blade would work well for simply sloping and crowning drives...
I can do a lot with a tractor and blade - Probably because that's all we ever had when I was a kid. If you get a blade, I'd strongly suggest buying a heavy one. Stay away from the $250 lightweight blades - They're virtually worthless.
Plan on spending $1,000+ for a heavy on with an adjustment for tilt. The heavier the blade, the better. If your tractor can just barely pick it up it's about right.
The blades shown on the first page of this PDF file are a good example.
http://www.bushhog.com/pdf-files/35-70blades.pdf
The one on the upper right is a cheap candy-a$$ed blade for weekenders. The one to the lower left is much heavier and has a lot of adjustments.
If you get a tractor up around 100 HP, they make blades with hydraulic tilt and angle controls. They can work great for ditching and such. But the bad part is that they cost $3 or 4 grand.
Several guys have mentioned small road graders. I would agree that they could be extremely useful if you can find one. Around here they're virtually unheard of.
"I was more looking for recommendations about something like the JD110TLB vs. something like a Massey or Kubota
Don't you know you shouldn't use "JD" and "Massey" in the same scentence ??? It's disrespectful to the MF brand. (-:
God knows I love MF tractors. But if you're not partial to a particular brand, I'd go with the brand that has the best dealer support. Doesn't matter how good your machine is if you can't get parts when you need 'em.
You've mentioned drainage a time or 2, so I assume you know how important it is. I think drainage is more important to a road than anything else. Can't emphasize that enough.
Hope I didn't go on too long. Let us know what you decide to do and how it works out.
One more thing - Around here pictures are required anytime someone has a new kid/grandkid. I'd say the same out to be required for anyone who buys a new piece of equipment. (-:
Where there is an open mind, there will always be a frontier [Charles Kettering]
LittleDenny,
The old timer that built my driveway had an interesting setup. He has a case crawler loader, with a hoe, for roughing in and ditching. Then an international 5 yard dump to haul the gravel. The dump was on old municipal plow truck, equiped with an underbody scraper. It did a good job with spreading, grading and crowning the road. Aroung here, NE Wisconsin, UP Michigan, these trucks are easy to find used. They are pretty well maintained, and not too expensive. The only flaw was that the truck was easy to hang up if driving in rough terrain.
Brudoggie
I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you were right about the niche. If it looks good, give it a try. I know a few people who have a skid steer and a compact excavator, they are staying busy and doing well. I think part of success in a niche is knowing your market, the local area, and knowing enough contractors to stay busy.
Most places in this country, if you do good work at a fair price you will do just fine. The first few years might be tough until word gets around, but that's normal. I was talking with a fellow contractor not long ago (all he does is dirtwork), he said the first five years nearly bankrupted him. But he also had just returned from two weeks in Hawaii with his wife, so I guess it turned out OK.
As for equipment, I already posted most of my thoughts, the one thing I would add is parts availability and service. I like CAT and Volvo, not only because they make fine machines, but also because you can get anything you need in 24 hours. Getting to know the local dealer before you buy is a good idea. If a machine goes down for parts, whatever you saved can evaporate prety quickly.
All in all, it sounds to me like you have a good idea.
DRC