When I see a customer about a job, I scrawl notes and make sketches with measurements in a spiral notebook. I usually make an estimate which includes a good job description.
It used to be that was enough to spur my memory when I start the job. Lately, my memory ain’t what it used to be.
Say that you were asked to do a bathroom remodel. How do you organize things so that you don’t miss any details if there was quite a period of time between the estimate and the work.
What would be in that customer’s file that you could order material and have everything ready without having to rethink and rediscuss things too much.
Notes?
Digital Pics?
For those of you more computer literate–Do you make blueprints and 3D rendering for small jobs?
Some sort of log of conversations with the customer?
What kind of system have you developed?
Replies
I know that pictures are invaluable for later reference. Even the next day for some of us. Pretty easy now with a digital camera.
John
I couldn't live with out my digital camera. It's just extra memory for my brain. I shoot everything and refer to it when working on bids. I rarely have to go back and check something I missed. It's great to take a photo of a faucet and run down to the supply house and find the right parts. The guys behind the counter can attest that a picture is worth a thousand trips back and forth.
Constructing in metric...
every inch of the way.
John and holy hammer--I think a camera is in my near future.
Craig
Here is my recent new camera discussion on BT.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=125777.1
For me it's take lots of pics, lots of notes , more pics and then keep everything in one file or one excel worksheet on the computer.
Rich
Thanks. I was just eyeballing some cameras the other day and wondering about some of the features. That ought to bring me up to date.
Thats what I love about communicating with my customers via email! There is a record of everything discussed and either agreed upon or refused. Save each email in the respective folder in Outlook with digital pictures and other files you can drop into it Word, pdf, dwg, etc (yes, you can drop ANY file in the Outlook folder) and its always there.
That's an excellent point I didn't think about.
Mike, I'm just starting to use Outlook again. I never thought of "dropping a file into Outlook". How do you do that? If you drop too much into it, does it slow down the email program?
Blue,
You just drag and drop whatever you want into that folder. Doesn't affect speed at all.
I drop my contract, and other files in with each job's emails and its all in one place where its easier to find.
Mike
I can barely find me email LOL.I don't even know how to navigate to the email folder. For instance, I keep a customer file just off my desktop. When I scan something or save it, it's really easy to find. How would I find my email stuff? I've always opened and saved everything OUT of the email, not into it.
If you have Outlook open to the main page, I then start folders for each of my projects under the customers last name.
I then just go and drag and drop any file (picture, pdf, word doc, etc) and then drop it into that folder. It then appears right in the same list with all the email messages.
It sounds tricky but once you do it once you will be like "Oh yeah...easy!"
I think you are misunderstading one part of my question. I'll ask it like this. If I click on a picture on this site and want to save it to my outlook folders....where are they? I can never find the outlook exe file or the folders either.
Copy and paste, Jim. I'm not dead sure about copying a pic off the web but I don't see why not. What's actually being pasted when you do that is not the photo itself, but the link to where that photo resides on the web. But since mail clients like Outlook speak html quite handily, it oughta work (unless you've got html turned off for e-mail).
If you want to copy the photo itself to your hard drive, you've got to right click on it and then select 'save image' instead of 'copy'. Then you could open your photo directory, copy the photo with CTL+C or Right-click/copy, and paste (CTL+V) into the Outlook folder.
Edit to add: I forgot to answer your primary question: Where the Outlook folders are. With your Outlook or Outlook Express program running, you should have a frame with the Inbox, Outbox, Sent messages, Drafts, Deleted Items folders. Those are the default folders but you can create as many new folders as you like. Put the cursor on INBOX or LOCAL FOLDERS and right click, then select 'NEW FOLDER'. A new folder will be created either under your Inbox or in the main tree. Name it for the client.
That's where you paste or drag material.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 11/16/2009 11:56 pm ET by Dinosaur
You would have to manually open Outlook and then save the picture to the folder in the process Dino mentioned.
Edited 11/17/2009 7:22 am ET by Oak River Mike
I always revisit the customer and go over what we had talked about.
However-they may remember "more'' than what was originally discussed.
So, I keep a record in their folder of what we talked over, the specs used in the estimate, the original estimate and all emails that we exchanged throughout the process.
More than likely there is a deposit recorded, materials ordered list etc.
I do like the computer file of all discussions etc. However I would need to scan my QB (not pro) estimate in order to get it in that file. And of course enter all the notes (scanned too I guess) taken during the pre-job process.
pity the scanner took a #### and I have an aversion of buying anything pertaining to computers..........
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I know what you mean about buying any sort of computer item. My printer died today in the middle of a bid. Spent way too much time scratching my head in the computer aisle of Wally World. Makes me remember why I'm a nail pounder.:)The revisit is a great idea. That's really where I blew a recent job. There were several revisions and I remembered the wrong one.I never thought about scanning everything into a computer file. I'm glad the new printer has a scanner.
We just bought a new all in one. The networking was very easy. I'm sorry to say it was an HP. I hate HP. The scanner worked perfect for a week. Now, I've got software glitches. Did I mention that I hate HP?
However I would need to scan my QB (not pro) estimate in order to get it in that file.
Cal -
It might be worth the $250 or so QB upgrade. I think I have '07. It's leaps and bounds beyond the previous version I had (both were Pro). The most useful feature is the ability to generate PDF's which can be emailed or dropped into the customer file without any peripherals involved. Scanning would still be necessary for hand written notes, though. copper p0rn
Thanks, I'll give it a looksee.
Carpenter-I'm good.
That other stuff?
eek.A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Notes?
Digital Pics?
For those of you more computer literate--Do you make blueprints and 3D rendering for small jobs?
Some sort of log of conversations with the customer?
All of the above as required.
I specify every task and all materials in the estimate, too. That defines the scope of work, and specifies which materials will be used to accomplish it.
The detailed estimate is the record of the project negotiations. If I submit an estimate based on, say, cedar decking, and the HO looks at the bottom line and decides Whoops! and asks for a revised estimate for spruce or hemlock, I run it through the computer again and generate a new estimate. Both stay in that client's file. As well as all e-mails and notes I make during or immediately after phone calls or meetings.
Anything that is added to the scope of work shown in an estimate after we start is a change order and, if I don't trust the client's memory (or my own) I'll make up a written change order and get it initialed or signed by the client.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Yeah, that's another problem with a recent bid. I spec'd roughsawn cedar 6x6's but didn't say how many on the bid. It had changed and I didn't change my material list.Of course my lumberyard gets the posts from a supplier that doesn't send anything until a minimum order is reached.Freddy Kruger ain't nothin. My bad dreams are now about cedar posts.:)
Edited 11/16/2009 9:52 pm ET by CraigF
I photograph a lot. I also use Sketchup for bidding re-roofs. I do a field sketch for dimensions and then use those dimensions to draw a 3D roof plan. I let Sketchup do the math. I can also color code the drawing when taking off so I know what I've finished with and what I have left to do, as I often get interrupted.
I scan any notes, calculations, drawings, communications, etc, and put them in a folder with the sketchup file and any pictures. A lot of my projects don't start until 6-8 months after I bid them, so I always need a good memory jog.
copper p0rn
Interesting. I've been meaning to learn sketchup for some time now but haven't done it.I never thought about doing math and color coding.I think having something visual would really help. Thanks
Craig
I have developed an excel worksheet for myself that has 5 worksheets.
The cover sheet has name and address and job description (that will be used for the estimate letter and the invoice.
The cover sheet also has the settings for markup, contingency and sales tax, that will be used throughtout the worksheet.
The I have the basic estimating worksheet. That generates the totals for the estimate letter. All I do to it is fill out some job details and print. It fit in an window envelope.
The bill worksheet is what I use after the job is done to figure either the T&M bill or how I did on the Bid. There I can keep track of what we did each day and materials used on the actual job.
That worksheet generates the totals for the Invoice. Again just print and put in an window envelope.
Here is an early prototype. http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=120723.21#a35
Cool. The invoices and estimates look really professional. I like the way everything is together. I have an ancient Quickbooks 2000 and I have to do estimating, bid letters, job tracking and invoicing all in different programs.
Yes ... to everything. Notes to yourself, sketches, drawings, pictures, and document discussions w/ the owner. Estimates I would do in e.g. excell and keep the file in a folder on my computer. Add anything to that that is relevant. Notes can be really difficult to keep. You think you right down what is relevant and 4 months later you can't decipher your own notes. Practice makes perfect though. Learn the skills to keep good records and you will be happier and more relaxed overall ... but I tend to be anal about stuff. Even my over organization seems to fall short sometimes when I go back to my notes.
Take time after your day of discussions and inspections to compile your thoughts. Your observations, your discussions ... then note your questions and issues so that you can resolve those at some point. People like to apply their trade ... not take notes, but it is inevitable that doing business is more than simply knowing how to drive a nail or measure a board.
Good tips. It always seems like I'm estimating when I'm busy and I tend to rush things to "get back to work".
Clewless isn't clueless. He is right. Great notes make for smooth sailing.
Yeah, it's sad not to know what my lines are when I wrote the script.:)