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Discussion Forum

Estimates/proposals etc take or mail?

john | Posted in Business on September 12, 2005 03:27am

Personally I always mail them, or email if the HO’s have it. My reasoning is this- that the price is almosts certainly going to be more than they were expecting (such is human nature ) and I need them to have a good read through everything I’m going to do for them, and gradually get used to the new price level and then, when they’ve got comfortable with it, get back to me with the go ahead.

Also, I hate putting people in an uncomfortable position, handing them a price while I’m there means they either have to give some kind of answer on the spot (always easier to say no in a situation like that) or to say they will think about it. If it’s the second, then I’ve wasted a trip

I know others have different opinions and I would be interested to hear them

John

If my baby don’t love me no more, I know her sister will.
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Replies

  1. FastEddie | Sep 12, 2005 04:31pm | #1

    It depends on the customer and whether or not you want the job.

    I always ask first.  Some want an email or letter for the reason you state.  Some don't care.  For those, and the ones that I rerally want, I always hand deliver.  It's a more personal touch, more professional sometimes, and allows me to immediately explain any questions, or alternates to what was discyussed the first time.  And it's another chance to close the deal.

     

     

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  2. davidmeiland | Sep 12, 2005 05:30pm | #2

    I usually deliver them in person, and sit down to go over them with the owner. My proposals are detailed and usually about 3 pages long. The price is on the last page, but I usually throw the number at them as we sit down, without turning to that page. Then I go thru the detailed scope of work item by item and explain everything that needs to be done. This way I have hit them with the number (which is usually more than they thought) but have emphasized the amount of work and the level of detail that the work requires. People who want it done usually hire me.

    Generally it's good to talk about money immediately. I have looked over plan sets for large jobs with owners a few times recently, and try to comment on the cost right away, if I can, i.e. "wow, this looks to me like somewhere between $200-250K." See if I can make them faint that way. If not, then it's usually worth more discussion.

    Most people appreciate having the entire job explained to them in detail. It's a good way to let them know your level of skill in your work.

  3. cesperry | Sep 12, 2005 07:54pm | #3

    Shot up to Jimi Hendrix.

     

      I use email for 75% of my communication with customers.  If there is any dispute you have proof of what was said & when.  Typically I will give people one week & then do a follow up phone call.  My closing ratio is 34% so it seems to be working (for me).

    1. MikeSmith | Sep 12, 2005 08:12pm | #4

      if they can't meet with me to review the Proposal... they don't get one..

      the only exception is out of town owners.. 

      we close about 85%

       Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

      1. john | Sep 12, 2005 08:23pm | #5

        At 85%, surely you aren't asking enough. The figure I hear most often as a suitable closing ratio is a third.

        Still, in my case it isn't a question of whether or not the customer can meet with me to review the propsal, so much as whether or not I want to do it that way. I prefer to let them get used to the price I'm asking on their own, take a few days over it if they need to.

        JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

        1. MikeSmith | Sep 12, 2005 08:31pm | #6

          the trick is that only the pre-qualified get a Proposal from me... i'm not into giving away things for free any more

          they pre-qualify by being previous customers.... or by paying for my Proposal..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

  4. Piffin | Sep 12, 2005 11:18pm | #7

    I'm like Mike. before I get into an estimate, we both have a pretty good idea that I am doing the job. Most of my customers are return customers who already know the value of my work. I think I lost one about five years ago, and that was from not clearly understandinga ahead of time that they were looking for bottom dollar cheap instead of looking for value.

    But even before that, I ALWAYS hand delivered. That is the real sales call. It sounds to me like you are uncomfortable selling.

    IMO, a 34% closing rate is fine if you are selling based on price but iof you want to sell based on quality, you have to make a presentation, and lead them to a closing. A week is long enough to let them cool down. besides, a mailed price is an insult. The customer is left wondering what is this and that forand the questions pile up if you are not there to anser them. They end up thinking, "Well, he really must not be very interested in this job of ours." You send a signal when you mail the proposal, and you leave yourself wondering if they even recieved it.

    I have customers who are from out of town or who hold themselves somewhat aloof from such common people as myself, but they have to meet with me at least once so i can deal with them eye to eye and take their measure while letting them measure me. I want to know that I can trust them and that they can trust me. I understand that they are busy people, but I am too.

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. davidmeiland | Sep 12, 2005 11:48pm | #8

      I agree and I disagree. Around here, almost no one but me will write up a detailed proposal for a customer. Half the guys here don't even return phone calls. I can and do get jobs with mailed proposals, which I guess is the equivalent of getting a job just by being the only one to show up.

      I did mail one recently. It took a few days too long to write it up, and I knew I couldn't drive out there for another week or so, and stuck it in the mail. I called to let them know it was coming, and told them we could meet after they reviewed it. When I got there the owner had marked it up and had plenty of questions and a few instant change orders. Works well with some customers. Others need to be sold in person.

      1. Piffin | Sep 13, 2005 12:22am | #10

        at least you maintained regular contact with the phone. Didn't let tehm cool off, and relative to your competition, you handled them in such a way as to make them feel special 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

    2. john | Sep 13, 2005 12:16am | #9

      But even before that, I ALWAYS hand delivered. That is the real sales call. It sounds to me like you are uncomfortable selling.

      I totally disagree. The first call is the sales call.

      As far as selling on price, my competition is not the next contractor on the list, it's Mr 'let's leave it til next year'. You are working on the presumption that the people are going to have someone do the job and maybe it's you (or in your case, apparently, a virtual certainty) or maybe it will be someone else. In my case, it's entirely possible that nobody will do the job, that it will remain undone.

      BTW, I am entirely comfortable with selling.

       a mailed price is an insult.

      Is it, I hadn't realised. Neither have most of my customers

      JophnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

      1. Piffin | Sep 13, 2005 12:25am | #11

        a mailed price is an insult.Is it, I hadn't realised. Neither have most of my customersMaybe you should check with the 66% who are not your customers 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

        1. Rebeccah | Sep 13, 2005 01:52am | #12

          Speaking as a HO,A mailed price is NOT an insult. A two-week delay before mailing IS.That said, it does depend a bit on what you're pricing -- the size of the job, the nature and complexity of it, etc., as well as how much was discussed in previous counversations.It also does make a difference whether you are competing against another contractor or against "maybe next year...". Time is of the essence when there are other contractors involved, because the HO has to notify the unsuccessful bidders (well, if the HO has any consideration, s/he needs to notify them), which means that a decision may have to be made fairly quickly. If your competition is the option of putting it off, you have a little more time, but a high price really works against you even if you provide great quality.Either way, if it's more than a week between the meeting at which the requirements are discussed and the *receipt* by the homeowner of the estimate, you're putting yourself at a huge disadvantage. In that case, phone calls or e-mails to provide some continuity are a good idea, if you really are interested in getting the job.And, even if the price is delivered by regular mail, it's important to be available for further discussion on the phone or in person or via e-mail to answer questions that arise from seeing it all laid out on paper.

          1. MikeSmith | Sep 13, 2005 03:31am | #13

            i agree.. it's certainly not an insult..

             it is a waste of the time i've already devoted  to preparing the Proposal

            if i have invested 10 hours in a Proposal, i'm certainly not going to put it at risk by dropping it in the mail and wishing for the best

            i want to be there with all the decsion makers, reading the body language, trying to discern who's driving the boat..

            i already know i'm their best  deal.. now it's up to  me to convince them.. a 37 cent stamp is not going to do that

             Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        2. john | Sep 13, 2005 10:01am | #17

          a mailed price is an insult.

          From my perspective, and that of my customers (and my non-customers who would be quick enough to complain if they had been insulted), that statement is so ridiculous that I've been wondering why on earth you would have made it. I can only think that there must be severe cultural differences between our respective trading areas.

          There would only be any point in worrying about the 66% of sales that I don't get if I had the capacity to do their work. I control how much work I do by controlling the prices. When I have too much work coming in  then I raise my price until the number of sales I get match my capacity to service them. Obviously the percentage is just an average, some weeks I get no calls at all. All's well at the moment, though.

          JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

          1. Piffin | Sep 13, 2005 02:25pm | #18

            That says that your target market is shopping based on price, so they are more likely to insult you than to feel any slight themselves.Every time I raise prices, I get more work offers. It just adds to the aura. Call me a boutique renovator but life here is good. 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. john | Sep 13, 2005 02:47pm | #19

            Every time I raise prices, I get more work offers. It just adds to the aura. Call me a boutique renovator but life here is good.

            There would have to be a point at which that stopped. We could argue about where that point was but obviously it would vary from one area to another.

            JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

          3. davidmeiland | Oct 06, 2005 03:38am | #20

            I don't entirely agree. Sometimes during an initial meeting I develop the feeling that I will mail my proposal rather than chase the owner down for a followup/presentation meeting. It has a lot to do with the way they present themselves, and what I know about them.

            Yesterday I mailed one to a gentleman who I know will sit down and read it carefully. He will appreciate the opportunity to do that rather than having me come back right away... he's a very deliberate sort of person, and he knows a lot about building. Every word I wrote will be read carefully, and my being there vs. not being there will have zero to do with his decision.

            With other people, I know I'm going to go back and try to make the sale. That works well with people who (a) don't understand much about building, and (b) will need some reassurance about how we will work without destroying their life.

          4. maverick | Oct 06, 2005 06:07am | #21

            >>Every time I raise prices, I get more work offers.

            Theres a lot of truth to that. Years ago when I was starting out I thought I was keeping just busy enough by keeping my rates low. I got tired of working for cheap and gave myself a very substantial raise. The phone started ringing off the hook

            Of course you need to deliver the goods for that to work

  5. MSA1 | Sep 13, 2005 04:50am | #14

    Unless its something small, I always present in person. Helps to read the customers reaction and answer any questions they may have.

    I dont think i've ever gotten a job from an estimate that i've mailed. 

  6. RTC | Sep 13, 2005 07:56am | #15

    i like to hand deliver my estimates and hopefully get the go ahead right then and there.

    RTC

    1. msm | Sep 13, 2005 08:15am | #16

      another HO giving my perspective here. as long as it's in writing, i do not give a flip if it's mailed or hand-delivered. around here, as i've mentioned before, it's darn hard to get anyone to show up for the look-see in the first place, let alone give an estimate or heaven forbid show up to do the work and fuggedaboud showing up on schedule when they do get the job. i have no idea what it would be like to live somewhere where there was so much competent competition that a detail like that could sway a decision. 'they all were great, but this guy came back in person'...sigh...i'd say, if you are in doubt, do as a few others have suggested and just ask straight out when you meet the first tiime, which way the HO would prefer to get the proposal. be flexible.

  7. User avater
    JeffBuck | Oct 06, 2005 06:23am | #22

    U can't sell yourself if U aren't there.

     

    simple fact of life.

    Jeff

        Buck Construction

     Artistry In Carpentry

         Pittsburgh Pa

    1. john | Oct 06, 2005 10:05am | #23

      U can't sell yourself if U aren't there.

      That's an opinion, not a fact.

      I personally would NEVER make a decision about a large purchase while the person trying to make the sale was sitting across the table from me. Also, virtually all my sales are made to couples, and none of them would feel comfortable making a decision without discussing it between themselves while I wasn't there.

      The method that works for me is to sell myself on the first visit, then, when I tell them the price, I do so by mail and allow them to get used to the price (which is always more than they thought it was going to be) without the pressure of me sitting there waiting for their answer. If I was to do that most would just say no (that's an opinion as well)

      John

       If my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

      1. MikeSmith | Oct 06, 2005 01:03pm | #24

        john.. i'm definitely with jeff on this one..

         after all the time i've put into preparing my Proposal...i'm not going to drop it in the mail.

        i want both parties there and i want to present it.

        it has to be very special circumstances for me  to put the proposal in the mail... usually involves out-of-town ownersMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

        1. john | Oct 06, 2005 01:34pm | #25

          i want both parties there and i want to present it.

          And they give you an answer on the spot? Without discussing it between themselves?

          JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

          1. MikeSmith | Oct 06, 2005 02:27pm | #27

            this is not our first meeting... if they can't commit by the time i present my Proposal, i'll move on..

             also, there is a certain amount of trust that this implies... how we deal with each other in these face to face meetings is just the tip of the iceberg in how we will deal with each other as the job progresses..

             it is also important to find out who is driving the bus.. there is a dynamic between the owners as to the decision making process.. you should be doing an analysis as to how things are going to be decided.. are they going to tag-team you  in the future ?

            is she going to ask for something and he's going to negotiate the price ?

             does he get to decide which appliances ?

            if you get an approval from him , does it mean go ahead, or do you wait for her confirmation...

            these face-to-face meetings are how the job is going to go ...better find out now instead of later..

             you will not find out any of this by mailing a Proposal... and  you will get a LOT more rejections.

             BTW, all our contracts include a 3 day recission clause.. if they are so shilly-shally that they feel pressured into something they may develop buyer's remorese for later, they still have 3 days to rescind

            i think you may be projecting how YOU like to make " buy-no buy " decisions as opposed to how most people make  them... my experience is... face to face or forget about itMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. john | Oct 06, 2005 03:15pm | #30

            i think you may be projecting how YOU like to make " buy-no buy " decisions as opposed to how most people make  them... my experience is... face to face or forget about it

             And my experience is just the opposite. I don't have much in the way of  competition, and I've already sold myself on the first visit. The only decision the homeowners need to make is whether they want to pay that much for what I am offering. There's no way me sitting in the room while they try to get over the shock of the price is going to help the process.

            'Face to face or forget about it'? I never present prices in person, and I seem to get plenty of work. Usually it goes something like this-

            First visit, find out what they want, make suggestions, take some measurements etc, I say I'll send them some prices, then I mail or email a quote listing out all I am going to do for them, what I'm not going to do for them, and two or three prices for different options (this doesn't take me very long, BTW, as what I doesn't vary very much). Then I either hear nothing, very rarely I'll get a call saying no thanks, or I'll get a call saying 'we've had your letter and we want to go ahead'. I get enough of those that I don't have to worry about the non-responders.

            If I did take the quote in person all that would happen is they would say thanks very much and they would like to think about it for a few days, so I would have made an extra visit for nothing

            John

             If my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

        2. seeyou | Oct 06, 2005 02:27pm | #26

          I don't think apples are getting compared to apples in this thread. You and Piffen are mostly doing whole house remodels/additions, etc.

          In my case, I might send out (mail, email, of fax) 8-10 proposals in one week. My jobs range from $150K copper roofs down to $400.00 chimney caps. I don't need to meet with the chimney cap customer, but I do need to meet with the copper roof client. I always let the proposal procede me, so the client has time to swallow hard before we talk. I'm seldom bidding against others, though. Usually, I have the job before I submit the proposal(s). I'm often bidding against myself ( copper vs. Grand Manors or something of that nature).

          My point is: With large jobs, hand delivery might be more prudent. With small jobs, mail, etc. should be fine.Birth, school, work, death.....................

          1. MikeSmith | Oct 06, 2005 02:35pm | #28

            good to seeyou again...

            as the GC.. i certainly want your roof proposal with me when i meet with the customers, it is my responsibility to coordinate your work with the entire project  and explain everything to the customers..

             how am i going to do that by mail ?

            every proposal is going to germinate many questions that can best be answered on the spot..

             no way am i going to prepare a proposal taking 10 to 100 hours and then mail it in..

            you, on the other hand,  are a specialty contractor.. dealing mostly with contractors or customers with whom you have a  previuos relationship

             even if  this is the 10th project we  are doing for our customers , they still want  the meeting.. they want the reassurance.. they want me to look them in the eye and tell them we're going to do our bestMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          2. seeyou | Oct 06, 2005 02:44pm | #29

            Yeah, that's the point I went around the block trying to make. I'm not sure all the posters in this thread are GCs.Birth, school, work, death.....................

      2. User avater
        JeffBuck | Oct 06, 2005 04:53pm | #31

        identify, focus and overcome objections.

        U can't do that thru the mail.

         

        it's not opinion ... it's fact.

        U can't sell yourself it U aren't there face to face.

         

        "I personally would NEVER make a decision about a large purchase while the person trying to make the sale was sitting across the table from me. Also, virtually all my sales are made to couples, and none of them would feel comfortable making a decision without discussing it between themselves while I wasn't there."

        Me neither and me too.

        something to think about ... How are U sure they are reading your proposal correctly?

        and ... if there's one or two small questions/details they would like to clarify ...

        how do U walk them thru those last stumbling blocks without being there?

         

        Keep mailing ... but hand delivered is just plain better sales.

        I think U've had Q's in the past about drumming up more business in a tight market ... here's one very solid technique you are arguing against.

         

         

        Jeff    Buck Construction

         Artistry In Carpentry

             Pittsburgh Pa

        1. john | Oct 06, 2005 08:29pm | #32

          Jeff, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

          BTW, I've just had another acceptance (by email) to a quote I sent a couple of days ago (by email)

          JohnIf my baby don't love me no more, I know her sister will.

        2. Rebeccah | Oct 06, 2005 09:55pm | #33

          As a HO, I'd be in John's camp.After an initial meeting *or series of meetings* (if it's for a large project), I'd want the proposal in writing, in detail, and in private. I like to have time to review the whole thing in detail, to write down my questions, and to consider the reality of the dollar amount and what I can eliminate to try to bring it back to within shouting range of budget.Now, I know I am not typical of most people, so it sounds like John's got a different market demographic than you do.--- identify, focus and overcome objections. U can't do that thru the mail. ---Actually, you can, with someone whose preferred communication method is written (alternatively, you can also do it via fax or e-mail, which are both quicker than regular mail). I focus on facts better, and make decisions more comfortably, when not distracted by subliminal messages, body language, intonation, fear of offending, fear of wasting someone's time, fear of making a bad decision by making it too quickly, fear of misunderstanding or forgetting exactly what was said, and fear of the other person misinterpreting or forgetting exactly what was said. I also recognize that most people I deal with are not more comfortable with handling follow-up questions in writing, in the degree of detail that I prefer. So, after receiving the proposal and writing down my questions, I typically telephone the contractor to ask the questions and make notes of the answers. And if necessary, modify the contract to explicitly address those areas.Mind you, I do want to meet the contractor in person, and I do use all of that overt and subliminal communication to make an initial assessment of how much I trust the guy (or gal). But in the scenarios being discussed in this thread, that meeting has already taken place. First impressions are lasting ones, but in the end, I have to find someone who is comfortable with the way *I* make decisions, which is to make absolutely as many of them as possible well ahead of time, and in writing so that no one forgets them. That is how I accomodate my long decision-making process.
          --- Keep mailing ... but hand delivered is just plain better sales. ---You may well be right (like I say, I know I'm an exception). But an alternative is a follow-up phone call or visit *after* the proposal has been received.And of course, you can always ask during your initial presentation how the customer wants to receive the proposal, thus identifying written communicators like me ahead of time. :-)

          1. durabond5 | Nov 03, 2005 03:49am | #34

            A lot of homeowners don't like the pressure in making the decision face-to-face. The meeting usually ends with " We'll think about it". I give a price over the phone and follow up with a detailed estimate and then call back in a week or two. They need time for the other bids to come in as they are shopping around. they won't close the first night if they don't have any other numbers to compare to.

          2. User avater
            txlandlord | Nov 03, 2005 07:23pm | #41

            Thanks Rebeccah.

            It is great to get an HOs view.

            I would be interested in your opinion of my scenario of design / build if you have the time. It is found in an earlier post in this topic.

            Check us out at http://www.brotherscustomworks.com. You are also welcome to comment of the website. It is still under construction, we are adding a picture gallery and some desing work / actual plans and specifications examples.

  8. User avater
    txlandlord | Nov 03, 2005 04:37am | #35

    Tell me what the Breaktime Crew thinks about this procedure for remodels and additions?

    Meet with the client / discuss the project.

    We design / buiild and always insisted on a set of plans and specifications.

    I offer to do the plans and specs, suggesting that I can do a through job of design and specs, and show them examples of past projects. 

    I tell them I will prepare a proposal for the plan work.  The proposal states that they can review and edit 2 times without additional charges, assuring they get wahht they want.

    If I close on the design proposal I will submit a guaranteed bid at presentation of the plans and specs,  and  at that time they pay me for design. The bid is free, I charge for the design work.

    As incentive, I tell them of my experience, give them references and strongly suggest they provide plans and spec before an invitation to bidders.

    I make the offer to provide the plans and specs, with a guarantee that they will be build ready, all a builder needs to know about the project will be in the plans.

    I tell them that in providing a through ready to build plan first, all bidders are truly bidding apples to apples.  It works well. The bid work is easy,  as I have a first hand knowledge of the project. NOTE: I will provide an estimate only without plans, so the client can study financial feasibility.  

    Oh yeah, the issue. I never use snail mail. I try to filter the method of delivery by client and project / email or face to face.  Ideally, a face to face is best for us, but when scheduling conflicts occur and I have an anxious client I will submit a bid via email. These bids have typically been less successful over the years.

    Note: This info is supplied refering to my past. Currently we are only doing new homes, which is subject to change. See http://www.brotherscustomworks.com

           



    Edited 11/2/2005 9:58 pm ET by txlandlord

    1. blue_eyed_devil | Nov 03, 2005 05:58am | #36

      That sounds like a good program to me Txlandlord.

      How much would a typical 1500 sf addition design/plans be in Texas?

      blue 

      1. User avater
        txlandlord | Nov 03, 2005 04:09pm | #38

        $1.00 per SF for plans and specs, but cost can vary from $0.85 to $1.75 per SF, depending on complexities, and services offered.

        We sometimes add additional services such as a soli test / foundation and frame stamped engineers plan.  I do provide a frame and foundation plan, with disclaimer that they are not approved by an engineer, or I submit it to the engineer for review. This too can add income for the designer.

        1. davidmeiland | Nov 03, 2005 05:52pm | #39

          Just curious how your insurance company feels about your dealings with engineers? My insurer doesn't want me to write any checks to engineers without an additional insured status and a hold-harmless agreement in writing. I have the owner pay them directly.

          1. User avater
            txlandlord | Nov 03, 2005 07:19pm | #40

            My engineer(s) all have liability insurance that covers their design. The cost is not specified within their proposal, but is included with their cost per SF.

            Their insurance rates doubled about a year ago.

            I am sure I pay for it two ways:

            1. It is factored into his cost per SF

            2. He applies overkill to the design to cover his butt. This, which cost us more in materials and labor.

             

    2. Rebeccah | Nov 04, 2005 12:07am | #42

      Tell me what the Breaktime Crew thinks about this procedure for remodels and additions?

      Meet with the client / discuss the project.

      We design / buiild and always insisted on a set of plans and specifications.

      I offer to do the plans and specs, suggesting that I can do a through job of design and specs, and show them examples of past projects.

      So far, so good with me.

      I tell them I will prepare a proposal for the plan work. The proposal states that they can review and edit 2 times without additional charges, assuring they get wahht they want.

      I know myself, and on something like a major remodel or a new house, two edits wouldn't be anywhere near enough for me. I'd need something much more structured about how to pay for the design phase if it goes above two edits. This might work for a garage with 2nd floor artist's loft that I am thinking about doing in a couple of years, but only if I basically design the whole thing myself ahead of time, using home architect software (I just upgraded to the BH&G 6 Pro version). Your design becomes my reality check and an opportunity to be sure we understand each other.

      If I close on the design proposal I will submit a guaranteed bid at presentation of the plans and specs, and at that time they pay me for design. The bid is free, I charge for the design work.

      This is perfectly acceptable to me, and in fact is the way that I would prefer to proceed on something complex.

      An alternative that I took several years ago was that I hired an architect to help me work out final design details on a new house I was planning to build. I had spent two years designing the house on Broderbund's (ART's) 3D Home Architect Deluxe as well as an assortment of other packages that I tried out (I ended up liking that one the best), and hired the architect to help with the roof design and a couple of minor layout issues, construction specifications and drawings, guidance through the process of soliciting construction bids, and supervision of the construction process.

      I ended up spending I think about $12,000 and several months and NUMEROUS drawings, getting as far as selecting the contractor and working with him to pick out finish materials, before outside forces intervened and I ended up changing careers and moving across the country -- and abandoning the new house project. (I did ask the contractor how much I owed him for his time working with me and his lost opportunity, as we had not yet signed the construction contract. I paid without question the amount he replied. I felt bad, as I had really been looking forward to working with him and his wife.)

      However, I now have less unfettered money to work with (having bought an existing house in my new community), and probably wouldn't go through all that again. A design-build company with a separately contracted design phase and a smaller project scale would be more up my alley nowadays.

      As incentive, I tell them of my experience, give them references and strongly suggest they provide plans and spec before an invitation to bidders.

      I make the offer to provide the plans and specs, with a guarantee that they will be build ready, all a builder needs to know about the project will be in the plans.

      I tell them that in providing a through ready to build plan first, all bidders are truly bidding apples to apples. It works well. The bid work is easy, as I have a first hand knowledge of the project. NOTE: I will provide an estimate only without plans, so the client can study financial feasibility.

      The apples-to-apples benefit of a build plan is a no-brainer for me. References - definitely a must. The estimate without plans is a necessary prerequisite to proceeding with designing, and is understood to be nothing more than that. So this is all fine for me.

      Oh yeah, the issue. I never use snail mail. I try to filter the method of delivery by client and project / email or face to face. Ideally, a face to face is best for us, but when scheduling conflicts occur and I have an anxious client I will submit a bid via email. These bids have typically been less successful over the years.

      As long as the proposal is in writing, and I have had an opportunity for some detailed discussion of the project face to face, and I have an opportunity for private reflection of at least 24 hours (or longer if I am getting proposals from more than one company) and some method of getting follow-up questions answered before deciding, the method of delivery really doesn't matter much to me. That's regardless of whether this if for the design phase contract or the building phase contract. And it pretty much applies for any job over $1000.

      Again, I doubt I'm typical. But this is one HO's perspective.

      Rebeccah

      1. User avater
        txlandlord | Nov 04, 2005 09:35pm | #43

        I know myself, and on something like a major remodel or a new house, two edits wouldn't be anywhere near enough for me. I'd need something much more structured about how to pay for the design phase if it goes above two edits.

        I am speaking through the whole scenario about the primarily discussed project type....remodels or additions. Generally, I give the client a floor plan as discussed, and also do some alternatives with the first presentation. I sit and talk with them about the plan as previously discussed, and why I am suggsting the alternates. If they can confirm some of the design, I will make necessary changes. Considering our experience, rarely are my suggestions rejected. HOs are usually delighted and see the wisdom in my alterations.

        This first review does not represebnt an edit. The edit is when I actually make the changes.  I suggest that they review / sleep on and dicuss the presented plan(s) for 4-7 days or longer if needed. The first edit does not occur until this period ends and I perform the edit. The second edit is usually based on a similar scenario. Charges for further edits are $75.00 per hour or a flat rate based on what they want to do. 

        The hourly rate may seem high, but it ends up being cheaper than when I draw new plans for $0.85 - $1.75 per SF. Aside from that my CAD program is a $3,000.00 investment, 24 x 36 printer is $1,800.00 with upgrades of the CAD for new versions costing $750.00 to $1,000.00 depending on the stations I want to upgrade / we have 3 stations.

        In mentioning the face to face, I am not a high pressure saleperson, wanting to close. I am usually sensitive to each situation and can determine who wants to close and who needs more time. Giving more time is never a problem as I have generally have plenty of work, and I would rather have a client who is personally ready than one who may feel forced into the project.

        The advantage of face to face? A personal review with answers to questions, limitation of confusion and the advantage to see facial reactions, emotions and the tone of voice in which something is said. Even in our exchange and your sharing of experience here, your frustrations, sympathies, etc. would have been more clear if we were sitting across a table from one another, and being words coming easier than a typed composition, more could be said.   

         

         

         

         

  9. 4Lorn1 | Nov 03, 2005 09:46am | #37

    Develop the art of the drive-by friendly visit. 'Wanted to drop this off for you to look at at your convenience. Can't stay long. I'm on my way elsewhere'.

    Practice the friendly greeting for the company secretary. Know the usual social stuff and get and stay on their good side.

    'Hi Marge. How are the kids? Timmy get over that nasty cold he had?' Basic social skills.

    The old adage that sergeants run the army and secretaries run business is very true. If your friendly, but not too friendly, with the secretary your going to get a better hearing.

    Nice the well written letters have a place but nothing beats their being able to put a face with the name and a personal touch.

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