Can some of you guys help me figure out some ways to guesstimate the cost to build a new home? I know it’s a very loaded question and it’s impossible to answer, but here’s my issue.
Some guys say $100 sf gets you a decent house. Others says that you cannot accurately use that figure. Some say $200 a sf is a good measure and allows for some upgrades in finish materials and appliance upgrades.
Others will argue that the only real way to get a good idea is to send plans out to bid and see where they come in. Since I plan to do a lot of the work myself, sending plans out to bid is a waste of time for the contractor doing the bidding- so I don’t feel right doing it. Typically bids are free in my area so it would be easy enough to do, but still I don’t feel right about it if I have no intention of using the contractor.
Here’s my problem- the wife and I are considering buying a lot and building on it. I recently completed an addition to our existing house and did OK with the budgeting up front and the finished cost wasn’t far off. But a whole house is different than an addition. We plan to do alot of the work ourselves also.
So how do I go about figuring if I’m even in the right league pricewise, let alone in the right ballpark?? we’re looking 2500sf range. Foundation not too cut up. Asphalt roof and most likely FC siding. I would like to put the money into the bones of the house now figuring if I need to I’ll skimp on the stuff that’s easily replaced later~ stuff like flooring and plumbing fixtures, etc. But since I only get one chance to air seal and insulate easily, I’ll spend the money on that sort of stuff up front.
Replies
Build the house with words, on paper from start to finish.
The items you do intend to sub out, get prices on.
The stuff you will be doing yourself, figure it your self.
Or find a reputable builder in your area and offer to pay him to pick his brain.
100persq will find you doing alot of the work. You can work your way up from that.
Thanks for the feedback- that's basically the way I figured the addition. Now riddle me this- for a guy that's never built a house before from soup to nuts (but has plenty of experience in different phases), what would you recommend as a fudge factor to compensate for the overlooked items that I am bound to miss- stuff like ballusters for the stairs, etc. I am thinking about doing what you have suggested and adding a 15% cushion for safety's sake.
In the computer biz we figure that the first 95% takes 80% of the budget. And the remaining 5% takes the other 80% of the budget.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Planning on building a small house in the next few years so have kept track of cost trends.
In my case the permits and impact fees will be MORE than ALL the materials, including elec, plumbing, appliance, carpet, etc. (been storing stuff for a couple of decades to be able to build for under $10 sq ft, most of purchased mat'l will be concrete, everything else stockpiled from closeout and surplus sales - example, $200 list plumbing fixtures for $5 when Home Base closed shop, etc.)
So, very dependent on your planning, LOCATION and permit fees, local code limitations, etc. (e.g. see the PEX in CA thread for inane building officialdom)
Attached spreadsheet shows actual cost of 1st house built where I did need to purchase the lumber. Last time I updated it was 2002, but $36 sq ft (NOT including land, but including own labor at nominal $25 hr )
CPI (consumer price index) factor in SSheet does not include the fact that permit fees and impact fees here have gone up a whopping 4000% (yes four thousand percent) since 1972. A few items here such as concrete have gone up 600%, but lumber and most other items consistent with CPI.
Edit PS: Note that the 'wear on tools' category is 'zero', as sold one dozer bought specifically for the job was sold afterwards at a profit. Also assume you have enough cash to not need to get a construction loan, none of those costs included. Also took the risk of no insurance during building as did ALL own work, so no workman comp or similar issue - an arson would have been a huge financial blow, your call on that type risk.
Figure on at least a $20K outlay for additional used tools if you do not already have a large inventory. Buying a used backhoe and telehandler would be a good decision if you do it all, you can always sell them later also - but you will probably want to keep them out of 'emotional attachment<G>.
Edited 12/30/2008 10:52 am ET by junkhound
Junkhound,What do you open the file `HOMECOst.XLS' with??
It's an Excel spread sheet. Excel will open it.
Microsoft Excel, Lotus 1-2-3, or most other spreadsheet programs.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
If you do not ahve any spreadsheet program, you can view if you download a viewer.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=c8378bf4-996c-4569-b547-75edbd03aaf0&displaylang=EN
How far out of the box are you willing to go?
When I did as you are asking about every time I came up with a number that I simply could not afford! (and that was before I added a fudge factor for forgotten items)
Instead I went and looked at where I could save money without decreasing the value. Since you are building it yourself and not counting on others to do the labor and make a profit you need to look at both speed/ease of construction and material cost.
If you are commited to buy wood at a lumberyard it's easy to spend $55,000 on the lumberyard package for that sized plain simple house.
If you are willing to go afield of that sawmills will provide wood much cheaper than lumberyards are willing to do.. I would estimate that you could frame that house for less than $10,000 if you buy direct from a competitive sawmill.
If you buy some basic shop equipment and spend say $6-7,000 you can convert raw wood into finish wood to replace trim and etc.. that will provide you with hardwood floors and perhaps a great level of finish than you can buy for anywhere near the same price.. Plus once finished with the equipment you can resell and recover about 1/2 of what you originally spent on them. (if you're an even better scrounger you can buy slightly used equipment and much of the depreciation wil have already been taken so you would loose even less)
Bottom line I was able using sawmill wood to build my place for a tiny fraction of the per sq.ft. price most people use..
One important thing to check into in advance is what level of completion is necessary to satisfy the bank and the BI prior to occupancy. In some jurisdictions, eg, you can pretty much move into a home with open studs and no insulation, while in others you're required to have the walls, floors, plumbing fixtures, and even trim done before occupying the house.
Good point. or you can avoid getting a building permit with all that entails and build using cash flow or savings or even interest free credit cards.. (which was my approach)
Yeah, that approach works great until the BI catches up with you.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Thanks gentlemen- the plan is to finance as little as possible and I have a good working relationship with the banker. It is still a bit of a small town arrangement here. The BI is inevitable though. Need 1 working bath and working kitchen as well as all safety stuff (handrails, etc) to move in. Other than that, I can finish as I go if I choose. Like that ever happens in real life . . . .
Yeah, you also have to consider what the boss will allow. And for how long.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I forget, I never lost my original certificate of occupancy since I never moved from here. Lived here through the whole construction.. My sister did the same thing. She's braver than I am because she lived in a tent in her old living room while protected only by a blue tarp in 20 below weather with 40 MPH winds howling and flapping that blue tarp!
Your advice on a Fine Homebuilding forum is to build without a permit????
NO I'm sorry,, what I did was get the prequired permits (17 year battle to get them I've spoken about it in the past) but once the exterior was done I don't need a certificate of occupancy because I never moved out. I've had the BI around several times and he compliments me on the robust manner I conform to all codes etc..
Plus I didn't get a bank loan to do the work so the bank doesn't need one etc..
Edited 12/30/2008 5:46 pm ET by frenchy
Hey where are you from? That would help with advice on what you need to build.
Wind issues, earthquakes, cold?
As for the BI don't fear them! meet with them up front, be nice, and don't try to play games, Then they can actually save cash for rip downs and costly delays ie. redrawing stairs etc.I would suggest go to a good builder, I'm sure there a lot looking for work, give them a drawing and ask for a quote to "close it in" then once tight to weather you can work away.You and the Boss can do your selves but for big jobs like a basement pour or setting trusses your going to need extra help. and I would rather pay a framer to stick on a roof system than the beer buddies. Let them worry about OSHA/WCB.Kids ???????I agree with building a good envelope and finish later we have done it twice. first time no kids went OK, Second with kids, NOT. are you on city water or need a well and septic system?
is Gas and telephone , power on site? Passive solar? incentives for building an efficient house?
Have you checked out zoning for heights and set backs? Does the property have any easements? How many Min and Max sg. ft. allowed or lot coverage %Inquiring minds have to know
I sure agree with your sentiment about being up front and friendly to building inspectors.. darn few are bad and most want to help people build a good home..
I don't agree that using a pro builder is the way to go. I can't begin to tell you the joy I have in building my house.
Have you used ICF's for foundation work yet? I did.. the first time I got the first row started and then went away on a trip.. The new seats in my car picnhed the nerve in my back and had me bed ridden for over a month.. I gave my sister-in-law with no prior construction experiance a 20 minute drug slurred lesson on how to install them and she finished the work. She had absolutely zero construction experiance (unless you count her painting her bedroom)
In short they are amazingly simple to do.
Hey where are you from? **Central MD** That would help with advice on what you need to build.Wind issues, earthquakes, cold? **No, No, and Not Really**As for the BI don't fear them! meet with them up front, be nice, and don't try to play games, Then they can actually save cash for rip downs and costly delays ie. redrawing stairs etc.
**The local BIs are generally decent and more helpful than obstinate, so I’m not really worried about them.**
I would suggest go to a good builder, I'm sure there a lot looking for work, give them a drawing and ask for a quote to "close it in" then once tight to weather you can work away.
**I may do this and explain my situation before offering to pay for what would ordinarily be a free quote.**You and the Boss can do your selves but for big jobs like a basement pour Got a guy for that or setting trusses your going to need extra help. and I would rather pay a framer to stick on a roof system than the beer buddies. Let them worry about OSHA/WCB.
** The wife helped me tear off and re-do our 24 square roof recently, but you have a point on setting trusses. ** Kids ??????? **Yes-3- and that concerns me.**I agree with building a good envelope and finish later we have done it twice. first time no kids went OK, Second with kids, NOT. are you on city water or need a well and septic system?
**Well is already in place. Lot requires a sand mound septic- that has to be done by an approved installer per county regs. Don’t think that’s an area I want to venture into anyway.**is Gas and telephone , power on site?
**Gas is N/A, tele and current already arranged, but not yet on site. PoCo requires 3” PVC to pull power and that is already in place.** Passive solar? incentives for building an efficient house? **None that I am aware of.**
Have you checked out zoning for heights and set backs?
**No height concerns and setbacks are fine** Does the property have any easements? How many Min and Max sg. ft. allowed or lot coverage %
**No easements or other restrictions other than staking the house within the approved building site perimeter. (The county approves the well and septic location and then dictates an area of the lot which the house has to be built in- not a huge deal, you just have to watch the corners to make sure you’re within bounds)**Inquiring minds have to know
**Sorry, can't do that fancy red font like Riversong, but hopefully, these answers make things a little clearer**
Edited 12/30/2008 8:43 pm ET by frontiercc2
I don't normally post a lot here on Breaktime, but can't resist on this one...
In 2003, my wife and I started on ~2300 Sq ft 1.5 story with basement. Out of all of the work done on the house, I didn't dig the holes for basement or septic, I didn't pour the flatwork in basement, I didn't do the brick work, and I didn't hang or finish drywall, but other than that, I did everything myself. Basement walls, framing, plumbing, electric, finish, siding, etc.
I have a bit of construction experience, and considered the task to be a welcome challenge. The stories of building our house could fill a book (for instance, at one time I had a snow blower in my great room blowing out 3 feet of snow since the roof was not sheathed yet).
Anyway, I can say that my estimating skills were HORRENDOUS. I estimated a total cost of ~180k, and ended up at ~220k. Also ended up being one year behind schedule.
There were certain things that made this feasible for me in spite of these things:
1. Help from family - I spent a lot of time figuring out how to do things myself, but some things are impossible to do on your own. Some of this help was free, some was not.
2. My home town (small town) bank that gave me the construction loan. No big bank would loan me money since I am not a licensed GC. Thank god the family has banked there for 100 years.
3. I had no kids at the start of the project. My wife turned up pregnant in the first months and never really helped again. :) With two kids now, I would not want to spend that much time doing this sort of thing...
4. I was working at my "real" job just a measly 40-50 hours per week.
It was a great learning experience, the house turned out great (still have a few projects left to do...actually a lot of projects), and I'd do it all again if I had the time.
My wife and I estimate that I spent ~4500 hours in the first 2 years on the house. That is more than 40 hours/week every week for 2 years. I spent my vacations from the real job working on the house.
Ah, the good ole days... :)
I'd be interested in how it goes if you go through with it. I think it can be a very rewarding experience if you have the right mindset.
Jamie
Eric has a good idea, find a good local builder, explain the whole concept to him, and pay him to bid it for you with breakouts by trade so you can see what the subbed work will cost. As long as you're up front with him there shouldn't be any issues.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I'm thinking a $2000.00 tops?
A weeks pay or thereabouts?
Can some of you guys help me figure out some ways to guesstimate the cost to build a new home? I know it's a very loaded question and it's impossible to answer
It's not a "loaded question" but there are far too many variables, particularly if you're doing much of the work yourself.
Some guys say $100 sf gets you a decent house. Others says that you cannot accurately use that figure. Some say $200 a sf is a good measure and allows for some upgrades in finish materials and appliance upgrades.
Square foot costs vary dramatically from region to region. But $150/sf is a good ballpark for a modest custom home.
Others will argue that the only real way to get a good idea is to send plans out to bid... I don't feel right about it if I have no intention of using the contractor.
You're right not to feel OK about asking for bids from contractors you don't intend to hire. But such a bid is useful only if you were planning to have someone else build the house.
We plan to do alot of the work ourselves also.
So, first, make a list of all the phases of building, including design work, permits, site-work, insurance and financing, water and sewer, power & telecom, and all the construction phases from foundation to roof and siding to interior finish, cabinets, flooring, and fixtures.
Then check of which ones you feel comfortable taking on yourself, and get bids for the rest (once you have a detailed set of plans and specifications, or you'll be comparing apples to oranges).
For the work you're going to do, take your plans to your local lumberyard. They'll typically do a materials take-off for free and price out all materials. They'll often give you a whole-house discount as well if you open an account. Make sure the prices include delivery.
Investigate fixture and appliance prices, door and window prices, cabinet prices, etc.
I would like to put the money into the bones of the house now figuring if I need to I'll skimp on the stuff that's easily replaced later~ stuff like flooring and plumbing fixtures, etc. But since I only get one chance to air seal and insulate easily, I'll spend the money on that sort of stuff up front.
Wise use of limited resources. Make the envelope as energy-efficient and durable as you're able. You can live on plywood subfloors and make-shift kitchen counters for a while if necessary.
Here: http://www.nahb.org/fileUpload_details.aspx?contentID=85253 is a breakdown of 2007 national average home construction costs. For most phases, labor and materials are approximately 50/50, so you can estimate material costs that way until you have a list to price out.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
There are some basics that have been touched on that I will outline again from my perspective.
1. Permits, sewer, water, impact fees. (figure them all out, shake all the trees, determine what the REAL costs will be and find out how long it will take to get a perrmit, how good the prints need to be, etc. (I could find an architect round here that will charge me $15,000-$30,000 to design a 3500 sf box and could find a draftsman that I could work with that would charge $1,000. Big difference in how that affects the cost per square foot.)
2. Determine your wish list of specs for the house. More detail the better.
Wanna do hardwood all the way thru instead of carpeting? Add about $5 per square foot if you use reasonably priced products but you could use some mahogany that would add $12+ per square foot.
Realize that to do a lot of it yourself will take a lot of time. You might want to plan on hiring out more than you think you will actually contract out so that if you decide that you are over your head, you have some money budgeted to get the help. (and if you dont use it, you have money in the bank)
Sewer and water and sitework can add a little or a lot depending upon the lot. Again, know what you have and make sure you can deal with it. Dirt heavy or dirt light, rock, (blasting, etc)
I've built houses for $50/square foot and built houses for $110/square foot. (excluding land and any overall site improvements but including excavation, driveways, etc.)
If you bid it out good, and cost it out with a plan, you can get a lot of bang for your buck.
If you go to the plumbing design showroom and blow $35,000 on air tubs, faucets, vanities, 1 piece custom colored toilets, hand painted lav bowls, etc. then you might be more than $50/sf.
Line item every trade, be realistic on your expectations on fixtures, etc and then start budgeting trade by trade, both materials and labor.
I'd be happy to help but Philly is a little too far from Central Md.
Lots of superintenents out of work down there from all the builders so there are good resources that could be had cheap.
No doubt you should not skimp on the shell as others have said. As far as installing "temporary" fixtures, my experience has been that there is so much effort put into a custom home, especially doing it yourself, that people want it over with when the job is completed. It's a rare family that wants to live in a construction zone. Apparently Frenchy is one.
So my advice is to figure out a way to put in what you want and be done with it. If it is designed prudently you can do that. Unlike some people who want too much house, so when they get to the end they don't have enough money for the interior.
John
save your self some time and save some money !
check out http://www.connorbuilding.com
they can figure all the mat. and estimates for time and labor
best of all send you everything soup to nuts
prices range from $160 -200 a sf
your 2500 sf i would say 165 sf complete for a custom home , i built one they are awesome !!