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I’ve installed preformed countertops for a while. In general, it’s taken me 8 hrs. to set-up, remove the old (2)tops, cut out sink, cut to size, add splashes and caps, install, reinstall plumbing, and clean up – and have done it in as little as 5 hrs.
I recently stripped a 10 sq ft top and installed new formica (no heat gun available, stripped by using lacquer thinner – took 2 hrs just to strip, sand, and prep the surface). The job took 5 hrs overall.
Can experienced fabricators, installers, and estimators please give input on your experience in estimating time and $/sqft or $/hr? What do the various estimating references indicate? i don’t have any of my estimating books and i have to make an estimate tomorrow and probably in the future. Job is in San Diego, CA
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If your business requires you to make XXX dollars per day, and if you've been in busines for any length of time you already know what XXX equals, then you already have your answer. Your first sentence says you can do a job in 8 hours but have done it in as little as 5. I suspect you will kill a day anyhow. Look at the job, compare it to those you have already done, plug in your materials factor for the job and you are ready.
*i used to have three estimating sources for bidding (one of them was the bluebook for estimating). what do the books say for preformed tops? for site-built/custom tops?
*Ralph is right on the money.What you charge HAS to be determined by your cost factors. Know your costs, the amount of profit you want or need, and determine the job estimate based on that.The problem I have with estimation software and estimation books is that no matter what they say is the "going" rate, it never matches what my charges would/should be. I may be higher, or lower, but never the "going" rate. What the books CAN be good for is to let you see what the Industry, as a whole, thinks should be the AVERAGE TIME to install/demolish a particular item. But then again, I know how long it takes me, on average, so it doesn't really matter what the book says about it. Know your costs, know your profits, know your time frames, and charge accordingly. Don't worry about the other guy's bids - they may very well be doing a lot of jobs for nothing. You want to do the job for a decent profit. Every removal and installation isn't the same, so how could you possibly charge by the square foot, or the linear foot? You gotta charge by each job, and make sure you make some profit while doing it. Let the other guys work for free. Just a thought...James DuHamel
*As an added thought about the inaccuracies of estimation software or tables my Walkers book shows that a plumber removing and replacing a double bowl kitchen sink should take SEVEN HOURS.Can you justify that to the customer or even to yourself?
*Listen guys...I am trying to gather real numbers in a thread here... Add to it if you can and someday when I get more serous... I am going to publish and sell estimating data along with rules of thumb pricing that will knock your socks off. I too see mostly absolutely crazy numbers in the books.Try looking up the cost of tennis courts... The data is totally rediculous that is available for a fee.back to the stream,aj
*ralph - what does the Walker's book say about formica tops?everyone - numbers please!these sample numbers come from "national construction estimator" software downloaded on a 30-day demo basis from :Countertops One-piece custom tops, 25"-36" deep, with 4" backsplash, shop assembled. Laminated plastic (such as Formica, Textolite or Wilsonart) on composition base. Costs are per LF of back edge and for solid colors.Bar tops (Square edge)(per linear foot) .181(Craft@Hrs) 31.80(Material) 4.58(Labor)36.38TotalSo, according to this estimator, material estimate for a 7' countertop would be about $225 and labor would be 77 minutes for $31. This makes sense if the labor is for direct installation and the material price is for material and shop labor required for making the top. but they don't breakdown the shopwork. at HD, materials for a 7' top would run about $80, leaving $145 (for me, this covers about 4 hours, which seems okay).anyone else?
*by the way, this software demo is available here:i ftp://ftp.craftsman-book.com/downloads/02CONST.EXE
*Brian, The problem I have with a flat out cost analysis from the "books" is that a customer will read up on it and tell you what you should charge. Like that top example you just gave. $225. seems cheap to me for a 7' top with materials and installation. Does that cover your first visit to get measurements and work up an estimate? What if they chose one of the higher cost choices in the Wilsonart line? I do a lot of work on cars and the estimating guides mechanics use are just a bad. They don't account for that bolt you just can't get to and have to run to Sears to buy a special wrench or the screw that strips out and requires a Helicoil size which you don't have to replace it. Realize, I'm not slamming your idea of set prices for your work but I like the idea others have (James for example) mentioned and price what you feel you need to make off any given job and go from there.Mike
*that was my problem with the lack of a breakdown for the shop work (materials and labor).don't believe any estimating book figures actually include profit, admin, estimating expense, ... strictly cost. and cost for this would be $225 shop fabrication + $31-35 install + profit + admin time + delivery/pick-up + xxx.
*by the way, ralph... this estimating software shows sink installation labor at 2.15 hrs for about $85. time value is high, but cost pricing about right.brian
*Brian,What the estimating software you are using is NOT telling you is the fact that each region of the country hs a different pricing strategy. In the full version of the software, it gives you a chart to go to in order to calcualte the actual rates for your area for labor. Once you do that, it will use that calculated rate for all future estimates. James DuHamel
*thanx, james. the info is provided in the demo. here (in the san diego, ca area) the multiple is 1.15 brian
*I have not bought countertops for a long time. My memory seems that my guy charged 18-22/sqft not per lineal foot. That would be about the same as above.. I think the materials were half or less...so the bases of the numbers above would be off. That' the same problem I see all through the estimating data... the end numbers may be what I would charge, but the breakdown numbers are way off.near the strream,aj
*appreciate the input, aj.brian
*The problem with strictly sq. ft. or l.f. countertop pricing is the lack of minimum charges. It takes virtually the same amount of time to install an 8' top as it does a 2' top. Instead of charging $40.00 per lineal foot and taking a beating on the 2', how about a $160.00 minimum charge for the first four feet (regardless of the tops actual length) and $40.00 per ft. for additional length. The small tops will kill you without minimum pricing.
*this i will adhere to. thanks, joe.brian