Hey folks…
In my continuing (and hopefully not yet annoying) quest to pick the collective brains here, I’m wondering what you all would suggest for tools for estimating mid size projects? For exaample, a friend wants me to give him a price on a decent size kitchen remodeling. Now, I know approximately how long it would take me to do the job alone, but in the interest of code compliance, I plan on having others handle plumbing, elec, etc. I’ve gotten Means guides, but they seem a tad overly complex for this kind of job. Is there a good book, or software that anyone uses and is pleased with?
Thanks as always for your help!
Paul
Replies
Paul-
As a professional estimator, I can tell you that the Means guides, etc., are a complete waste of money for anything other than double checking productivity factors for yourself on items you've never done before. Any pricing in the books is based on national averages, and not on your crews or subs.
If you plan on staying in this business very long, I'd focus on developing job cost data for your self-performed work, and on getting hard bids from subs for all labor you intend to sub out. Otherwise, you'll find yourself working at the Tool Corral at Home Depot before long.
I'm not trying to be harsh, but poor estimating, and relying on cost books for pricing has been the downfall of far too many contractors, and I hate to see that happen.
Bob
Thanks Bob,
That's exactly what I'm afraid of, I've been in my own business for many years, and although I'm new to this field I know how fast I could lose my butt ;) My concern is especially for right now, when I'm just putting a toe in the water, I don't have any statistics other than my own gut feelings and I suspect it may be diffiuclt to get subs to give hard bids on smaller jobs for an unknown "GC", but maybe I'm wrong...
PaulB's post caught my eye as I'm looking at a similar situation. After 20+ years as a solo design/build GC with one apprentice carpenter, my carpal tunnel and tendinitis prompted a switch to residential design only. After 8 years of this, I'm considering a return to GC design/build residential remodels (I miss the money and making it happen). As I plan to sub all the work, my old job cost data isn't helping me come up with a preliminary budget cost range to guide the design process. I've been offered a design/build project that's a medium finish half-house remodel with additions. Since I can't get estimates from subs without prelim design, I'm interested to see what cost range builders are working in for this type of project in my area (San Francisco to Santa Cruz, Calif.) Any info, per sq. ft. or otherwise, would be appreciated.
(I'm also re-posting this under 'California remodel costs' - Pedro)
Edited 3/18/2004 4:00 pm ET by pedro
Edited 3/18/2004 4:04 pm ET by pedro
Edited 3/18/2004 6:36 pm ET by pedro
Pedro-
I've done some estimating for projects in the Bay Area, and know several remodelers there. From what I've seen, you can't do anything there for less than around $200/SF- especially with the insurance premiums you're going to be paying.
Insurance is a problem if you're planning to sub all of your work. Most of the insurance companies in CA won't allow you to sub more than a certain percentage of your work- usually 20-50%. Many of the GC's are therefore foregoing general liability insurance altogether.
Bob
Thanks Bob, I appreciate your response. I don't understand the liability path if a GC doesn't have his own general liability insurance. Does the HO have recoverability for loss through a sub's insurance or their own homeowner's policy, rather than the GC's personal assets? Sounds scary to me....wonder how those GC's w/o insurance are covering their butts. Also worker's comp., it's gone way up and a lot of subs no longer have it - don't know if I'd hire one w/o it.
Pedro