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Ever disassembled submersible well pump

Karl | Posted in General Discussion on March 28, 2009 06:09am

Hi All,
I have a Jacuzzi sandhandler submersible well pump I use to pump water out of a seasonal creek. It is out of warrantee and its performance has dropped considerably.

I called my local supplier/repair shop and they tell me it isn’t a good value to rebuild these pumps and a new pump is 1000 dollars.

I am considering disassembling it to clean out the mud and slime that is built up in it in hopes of restoring some of its volume.

At first glance it does not look very intuitive to disassemble. Do any of you have any experience disassembling and reassembling a 4″ submersible well pump?

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks

Karl

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Replies

  1. User avater
    IMERC | Mar 28, 2009 06:14pm | #1

    look to the impeller housing 1st...
    may be that the impeller is about over the hill....

    how much lift are you trying for??? what is the water used for???

    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-->-->-->
    WOW!!! What a Ride!

    Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
     

    "Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"



    Edited 3/28/2009 11:15 am by IMERC

    1. eleeski | Mar 28, 2009 07:25pm | #2

      Removing the pump from the well is often a difficult (expensive) process. Impellers and bearings seem to fail at about the same rate so I usually replace the farm's well pumps instead of repairing them.

      With that said, I have sucessfully cleaned out a couple of pumps and gotten good service out of them. There should be a screen aorund the inlet which can get plugged up. Remove and clean that. Wash out the impeller as best you can from the outside. Replace the screen. And hope.

      Another possibility is that the pump only is bad. My pumps (either Grundfos or Grainger) have removable motors. While I haven't had just the pump side fail, I have had a couple of motors burn out. Motor replacement is about half the whole pump's cost. Maybe the pump side is cost effective to replace also.

      If access to the pump is easy and the water flow is not critical then try for a rebuild. Make sure you talk to the manufacturer to at least get the handedness of the bolts holding on the impeller. But if it's working OK I'd run it till it drops then replace.

      Of course, if you are not using it in a well application you might be better off with a sump pump or trash pump. The larger size of the impeller makes these pumps intristically more efficient for moving large volumes of water at low pressures. Plus they are a bit less expensive.

      Eric

      1. Karl | Mar 28, 2009 07:33pm | #4

        eleski,
        Thanks for the input.I am hoping I just have a blocked pump rather than a worn pump because this particular pump is designed to pump sandy abrasive water. I think it was last replaced under warrantee three years ago so it hasn't had a long service life so far.I am intrigued by your comment on efficiency of a different pump design as I spend a lot on electricity running this pump and should be looking at operating costs per gallon pumped if I do replace it.What do you see as the most efficient/lowest operating cost pump for pumping irrigation water at roughly 60psi?I pump out of an ancient 8'diameter brick lined cistern that is adjacent to a seasonal creek. I can use a surface installed pump but have opted for the submersible in the past to avoid priming issues.Karl

    2. Karl | Mar 28, 2009 07:27pm | #3

      Just typed out a lengthy reply and lost it accidentally.Here goes again.The pump only lifts about 40 feet and typical operating pressure is 75 psi at the pump. The pressure switch cuts out around 90psi at the pump and when I started it for the first time this season it couldn't develop enough pressure to trip the pressure switch off.The pump sucks up a lot of sediment in the water and also the water has a bacteria in it that grows black slime on the interior of the pipe, pump, etc.The pump sat idle for the last four months presumably growing enough black slime internally to render it unable to pump 90 psiThe local pump shop highly recommends the Jacuzzi sandhandler for dirty applications such as mine. I had previously used several Gould submersible pumps with short lifespans.The pump ultimately fails from black slime and sediment clogging it internally.I was told it would cost around 700 to rebuild the pump and 1000 for a new one. The new one gets a five year no hassle swap it for a new pump warrantee and the rebuild gets 120 day warrantee so rebuild isn't very appealing.I just want to disassemble and try to clean out all the muck in the pump, reassemble and test for performance before scrapping it and spending a 1000 dollars that isn't really in the budget currently.I am hoping that someone will have disassembled a 4" submersible in the past and can point out any tricks to opening it up, keeping things in the proper order and successfully reassembling it.I haven't pulled the pump yet as it is still capable of supplying water at a significantly lower volume and pressure than in the past.Karl

      1. JHOLE | Mar 28, 2009 08:10pm | #5

        I've done a few of them.

        Similar scenario - sand, gook, zebra mussels. Wish I could tell you some "trick" but I can't. Don't remember it being any big deal. Just took 'em apart, cleaned, and put back together.

        Maybe the Jacuzzi pumps are different - never did one of those - usually goulds, graingers, etc.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

        1. Karl | Mar 28, 2009 10:48pm | #6

          The only one I have seen disassembled had individual pump stages stacked up and you could see the connections between each stage externally. The jacuzzi and Gould pumps have a smooth exterior covering the individual stages so it isn't that clear what holds it together.In the absence of any good suggestions I will just pull the pump, seperate it from the motor and take the checkvalve off the top. At that point I am hoping/assuming that the next stage in the disassembly will make itself apparent.Karl

          1. JHOLE | Mar 29, 2009 12:54am | #9

            I'm thinkin' that's what I did...

            Start with what is apparent , and see what shows up. Keep workin' my way down.

            Don't remember anything that threw me a curve.

            I remember usually finding something queer, cleanin' it out, puttin' it back together, and it always worked...

            Switched to a lawn pump about 4 yrs ago. Haven't had a submersible since then.

            Now I just keep a spare impeller around - usually once a year replacement. That sand is tough on 'em.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

      2. BilljustBill | Mar 29, 2009 05:37pm | #14

        90PSI?

        Most sub. pumps I know only are rated to 60psi at cutoff and on at 40psi...

        Some of those pumps have stacked sections making up the pump, but because they are stacked, the more of them the deeper the well, they are assemblied and tightened evenly with a torque wrench..  The Aeromotor brand has only 4 bands holding the impeller sections together and to the pump.  It's been known that well guys have pull out only the four empty bands screwed to the end of the pipe...

          Why do you have to run so much pressure?  Just the electrical startup load against the low end of a 60lb-on and 90lb-off could approach 70-100 amps....

        Bill

        1. Karl | Mar 29, 2009 06:00pm | #15

          Bill, you ask
          "Why do you have to run so much pressure?"The pressure drop between the area being watered and the creek is between twenty and twenty five lbs. Some of the sprinklers it runs seem to perform best with 40 or more psi so I set the low end of the pressure switch at a minimum of 65psi.I may be explaining it wrong but 90 psi shouldn't be a big deal for a deep well submersible. There are plenty of wells deep enough that the pump has to start against the pressure of a several hundred foot column of water.The pump technician at my pump store once explained that it can be problematic to run these pumps at too low a pressure as they are designed to have a specific amount of pressure on a thrust bearing and with too low a pumping pressure you can get premature wear on the thrust bearing. In my moms low pressure application they advised my dad to put a restrictor valve on the pump outlet to raise the operating pressure of the submersible pump even thought the actual pressure at the outlet was fairly low.You ask about multiple stages. Mine does have several stages but they are all packaged inside a stainless steel sleeve.Karl
          Karl

  2. Stuart | Mar 28, 2009 11:01pm | #7

    It looks like the Jacuzzi is now a Franklin Electric J-Class pump. There are some exploded diagrams of their submersibles in their catalog that may help show how it goes together: http://www.franklin-electric.com/business/WaterSystems/Products/Pumps/pdfs/Catalog_J-Class.pdf Go down to page 134 or so.



    Edited 3/28/2009 4:02 pm by Stuart

    1. Karl | Mar 29, 2009 12:07am | #8

      Stuart,
      Thanks for the link. That helps. It looks like I just need to hold the pump shaft unscrew a nut inside the pump outlet and it all just slides apart.Karl

  3. McPlumb | Mar 29, 2009 03:32pm | #10

    Try adding a check valve on top of the pump. Your preformance discription suggest the check valve may be worn or not closing properly.

    1. Karl | Mar 29, 2009 06:03pm | #16

      McPlumb, Interesting idea that the check valve may be bad. I don't see how it would affect the pumps performance but it is certainly easy to check or replace. I would only think that a check valve not opening fully would restrict things. Hard to picture how a stuck open valve would be a problem.I will check it out when I pull it.Karl

      1. User avater
        Haystax | Mar 29, 2009 06:25pm | #19

        My $.02 -I think that you will find that the impellers are worn maybe even the bowls themselves after handling that much debris. You are also asking a lot out of a submersible to pump at that much head. Do you have the specific model number of your pump? You should be able to look at the specific pump curve and determine based on your system design exactly where the pump is on its supply curve vs your system demand curve.Generally it is not a bad thing to have these pumps "working" a little bit but I would hesitate a little on 95psi. What type of sprinklers are you trying to feed? How many and what gpm? I don't see the the flow check being an issue, if anything up-size in order to remove that restriction. I've got a couple "portable" submersibles running w/o check valves in order to let the lines drain in cold weather - stock water type applicationGenerally, we never repair the pumps in water well applications. It is enough work and enough of a necessity to get water going again that a new pump + motor is standard practice. Once in a while I will piece together parts to make a whole unit for a stock water tank.Anyway, I pump water for a living. Usually 1000gpm+ and try to do it as eficienctly as possible with electricity being $$$. You can try to keep fighting for pressure or maybe look into low pressure sprinkler heads - we went from 45-50psi systems to 10psi and can't believe how much better everything works. Good Luck!

        1. dude | Mar 30, 2009 11:16am | #21

          i have torn a few apart with little success , usually easier & faster to replace

          if you are not generating the volume needed for your sprinklers you will definately get pressure drop at the heads

          at a home i had in Fla i had several zones controlled by a timer so that when the timer cut the pump the the control valved switched to the next zone mechanically

          most do it using electric solinoids

          the higher the cut out pressure the shorter the pump life, having said that i usually set them at 50 -70  for water furnaces and hane not changed one in 15 years ( i use better quality pumps  eg Goulds or better )

          lift is more important than distance in general

      2. eleeski | Mar 29, 2009 06:30pm | #20

        My pumps all discharge to 0 pressure so I am not sure how well higher pressure pumps work. But my pumps are submersible so priming is not an issue. The low head submersible ag pumps use 1/3 the electricity of my well pumps for the same volume. Not quite a fair comparison (different head pressures) but a big power difference. 

        I'd use the acid trick and not disassemble the pump. If the acid works, you don't have to hurry the replacement. If the flow is still bad, look for an appropriate ag pump (Graingers?). Good luck,

        Eric

  4. MGMaxwell | Mar 29, 2009 03:42pm | #11

    Don't forget to take lots of pix with your digital camera to help with reassembly. Wish I'd done that when I took apart my dad's spotting scope when I was a kid. Of course that was 50 years ago.

    1. artworks | Mar 29, 2009 04:08pm | #13

      The pump is not that complicated, I have  taken them apart before , but there is little you can  field repair. I would  do a good cleaning , sand screen ect.  I usually found that stuff at impeller, or little stones plugging the screen is problem.

      Before you take pump out, check for amperage draw of unit. If you have manual, you can tell what rated draw is. If not, you have plate on pump itself and it should say. Also check all wire conections& breakers,  it may be  only running on 1/2 voltage ( 110 vs. 220)

      I have used Muriatic Acid to wash the pump, BUT ... YOU HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL have proper clothing , gloves, eye protection, and do it where runoff won't damage surroundings, NOT ON FRONT LAWN, lol ( concrete drive that may need a good cleaning? )( may be an alternative, such as pressure wash ect.)  Rise with lots of clean water.  It should clean things right up. 

       You may be able to test pump in some water before trying to place back in , but this may invole wiring to a 220V source (most are).

      P.S. I am a Certified Water Facility Operator

      1. Karl | Mar 29, 2009 06:13pm | #17

        Artworks, I once helped clean a disassembled pump and my primary memory if of a bunch of turbine looking discs that are spot welded together. The challenge was getting deposits out of the internals of the turbines.My plan is to use a dental hygiene tool called an oral breeze to clean them. This dental tool is just a plastic nozzle that clips onto your sink faucet and directs the water in a very focused stream. My city water supply runs at 90 psi and forcing that through this little nozzle at max volume gives it a surprising amount of force that I can direct in a very small space.Muriatic acid might be a good thing to soak the impellers in to dislodge any build up that cant be blasted loose. I have made enough mistakes with muriatic acid to have a pretty good idea what to look out for.I will run the thing in a test mode before and after so I can compare amperage draw, volume pumped at a specific pressure and max pressure possible(deadhead).Thanks for the tips
        Karl

  5. HammerHarry | Mar 29, 2009 04:07pm | #12

    The trouble with a lot of these low-end submersibles is that they're pretty much spot-welded together in sections during assembly.  Let us know how you make out, if you can get it apart at all.

     

    1. Karl | Mar 29, 2009 06:17pm | #18

      Harry, I am less worried about getting it apart after seeing the link Stuart posted in msg #8. It looks like the most difficult task is disconnecting the pipe from the pump and carrying it up the hill to the shop.MGMaxwell makes a good point about remembering the assy procedure but again the diagram posted by stuart should help with that.karlAll the input from you guys has been great. I now have a much better plan than the complete uncertainty two days ago.
      I hope to pull this thing out monday or tuesday
      Karl

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