Lately I’ve been doing a lot of trim sanding in our very old house. I take the usual precautions–dust mask, fine dust filter on the vac in the other hand. Probably doesn’t do much good?? Like the sailors on that Soviet sub who wore the raincoats into the reactor room…..
My DW and I jokingly ask each other how smart do we really want to be….FYI no kids in the house. Just us dummies.
So I’m wondering if anyone here has ever had a blood test for lead. I imagine some of you have eaten a lot more lead than I have. Not sure what I would do if my test turned up high.
Replies
I didn't, but a neighbor did. Kid came up high and they got him out to the grandparents fast. I think the doctor gave them some advice about what to do, and to follow-up testing.
come to think of it, I have been tested. It was negative though. There are at least two tests, one is a blood test, and the other is a 24 hour urine test.
I think there are some wipe down strategies too. You need to clean your house after sanding. There are some guidelines someplace, probably the EPA, and maybe the Kennedy-Krieger Institute in Baltimore.
You have to pee for 24 hours? I'd fail that test."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
<You have to pee for 24 hours? I'd fail that test.>
Yeah, I can manage a few minutes at best.
Forrest
You're not drinking enough.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
Even though the average pee seems to be taking longer and loonger and loooooooooonger...I'd fail the test anyway, because I have never been able to pee on demand.
No trees were killed in the manufacture of this message. But a large number of electrons were horribly disfigured.
i forget the numbers, i will have to try to find whatever box it is in but i know i do have them somewhere.
i worked on a job where we were cutting and welding used lead painted steel beams. This job was for the Kajima corporation in San Francisco, the Islay creek project, and it was a cut and cover (like the big dig in Boston only smaller) shoring project. as they dig the trench we install the shoring, then they dig deeper, and we install more lower down. (i love those jobs, we do our own onsite fabricating in adverse working conditions, separates the men from the boys)
everyone involved with the project got a lead test to begin with, and we were monitored for lead levels by blood throughout. if memory serves correct i started as a .02 and finished as a .05 and i am told those are both very low levels for a construction worker.
of course we all had the hazmat training and had to wear the respirators and wash hands and leave the overalls etc at the jobsite.
now from what i understand the fumes from the burning of the paint by flame cutting or welding is the most dangerous way to be exposed to lead, i guess the fumes find their way into the blood the easiest.
so i think most people will have been exposed to some lead, and show some in their blood. my grandfather on one side of the family apprenticed as a printer in a small town in wisconsin. his job from the time he was 14 was to sweep up the filings from hand filed lead type for the newspaper. he lived well into his 80's and had all of his faculties up until the time he died, and he never took care of himself by eating right or exercising. when i point this out at the classes where they are trying to scare the bejeebers out of you so you will wear the respirator they say well he was lucky, his system was able to take it yada yada.
its not good for you but the stress of worrying is probably worse, wear the respirator, wash your hands, and have a beer.
at that class, did they tell you that lead on the brain makes you forget to capitalize words when you write?
especially the first word
at the begining of the sentence;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
no thats just me being lazy. i didn't forget. i can type much faster if i don't capitalize. i do however try to proofread as i go and will rewrite misspelled words if i catch them. and i like to do this from memory, not look them up or spell check. i have always been pretty good at spelling.
i usually don't cap the "i's" either, even if they're not the leading word of a sentence.
when i first got a computer and tried to learn about computers i read a book about hacking (it was interesting and i was concerned about security) by a guy whose screen nick name was knightmare, apparently he is legendary in some circles, and in the book was his thing about grammar, punctuation, etc. mild ocd or just a pet peeve, even in a chat room he had to be perfect. for me i'm tryin to go fast.
if you think my not capitalizing is making it difficult to read the posts i will take it under consideration, when i first started posting in here (under a different screen name, then i got a new puter and it was just easier to change names) they explained how i had to hit the enter key now and then so peeps could make sense of my ramblings (you need a space after a few sentences so you can read it)
i miss caping alot too - take it easy, I was just pulling your leg. Sorry.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
no offense taken, like i said i had to be told to put in the spaces, i didn't figure it out on my own. i may have eventually, but then again.
And leave out punctuationk *3=+ except the funny looking stuff
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Well, if the test turned up high, the doc would know what to do and you would be tooo stoopid to be able to make that decision anyways...
Here's a test -
How many fingers am I holding up?
See - you are just fine!
;)
OK serious now - I have had test twice. There is actually several kinds of test. One is blood serum which tests current level. There is another test they do from blood and can do at same time that gives an indicator whether the lead has been present for long time and is accumulating. If that is also high, they test the bone somehow because that is where long term buildup settles in.
To remove as much as possible they do chelation therapy.
If you are noticing any symptoms, you really should get tested, it is cheap.
Me - they say I have eaten as much as I am allowed to for the rest of my life. My levels are just under the acceptable level, whatever that is.
It means that where I used to be able to add long columns of figures in my head and keep my check balance within pennies mentally, I now hae to use a calculator and computer. It also might account for my lopsided smile and my mad scientist hairdo...
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
I now hae to use a calculator and computer
Naw, the 'puter & calculator cause "contact dumbintude." The more you are around them, the less practical things a body can do.
Lead exposure causes you to cipher things like wrens and marmots and "blue" into one's gazintas, and think that ordinary. (The fact that construction accounting already has hints of such anumeric ciphering can "mask" the symptoms a tad . . . )Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Serum lead and zinc protophyrin are the tests you should get. There is no "normal" level of lead in the blood as it has no metabolic function but is seen in routine testing because of its presence in the environment. A level of <2 is good. Over 10 and you start to worry. Over 20 and you really worry and consider chelation.
Good luck,
Your friendly occupational health nurse practitioner/part-time weekend warrior woodworker.
Keith
see my blog at: http://vermonter51.blogspot.com
Actually, the real "worry" blood lead level for adults is generally >25, although some negative effects can occur as low as 10. Although a level of 10 when one has been getting exposed via work activity should be a serious hint that better precautions to prevent exposure should used.
Chelation of adults is rare (according to CDC). Most adults with elevated lead levels respond rapidly to stopping exposure. OSHA requires removal from work for levels >50, but workers can return to work (with adequate protection) after two consecutive blood serum tests < 40. Massachusetts has a good website on worker lead exposure http://www.mass.gov/dos/leaddocs/lead_med_guide.htm
A level of <2 is good. Over 10 and you start to worry. Over 20 and you really worry and consider chelation.
Am I remembering it rightly, that, around 7-8 to 10 is where the purple/blue lines start to appear along the nails & gums, or is that closer to 15?Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Your friendly occupational health nurse practitioner/part-time weekend warrior woodworker.
I have been told that the body, over time, will excrete the lead, so that the issue for adults is short term exposure, not overall exposure. Do you know if that is accurate?
Thanks.
Not entirely. A portion will lodge in the bones where it gets continupously recycled in th ebody
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Lead can be deposited in teeth and bones as well as the liver. If the levels go way up, they can stay there for a long time, and potentially cause organ damage or neurological damage. Don't go to work in a car battery plant if you can avoid it!
Zinc Protoporphyrin... I think I misspelled.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail."
Keith
Years ago I used to strip paint on old brownstones in Brooklyn. I was tested and found to have high levels of lead and recieved a series of chelation drips to rid the heavy metals. Always wear a respirator.
Whatever I've have, I have. No need to be tested.
How old are you? Would make more difference to me if I hadn't started remodeling before they even banned lead based paints.
Little kids do need something to teeth on besides an old window sill.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
"Whatever I've have, I have. No need to be tested"
I take the opposite view on that.Probably, my diminished brain capacity is from hittting my head and from old age creeping in, and from stress and anxiety overloads in spurts and not so much from lead.but knowing it is there at a max safe limit and knowing that I really don't want to get any mopre stupid, I am far more careful going forward not to take chances. I have to watch out and follow the rules for guys workiong for me anyways. We do almost every thing with older homes so lead is afact of life.Same thinking for hearing loss. What I have is what I have, but no sense in getting any more of it.Or with overworking my back....what it is is what it is, but knowing what not to do and how to manage it and to manage pain is part of life
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
You have almalgum fillings in yer teeth?
PMP
only life affirming platitudes allowed - Doud '07
I got fillings - don't know what they are. Assumed silver
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's amalgam. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmalgamThere are a lot of scare mongers out there that blame amalgam fillings for every evil to befall man (which gets kind of complicated because aspartame is also to blame for every such evil, as are gays and, of course terrorists).In practice, unless you're one of the rare individuals who can't effectively eliminate mercury, amalgam fillings are quite safe, and far more durable than any other option.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Well, from what I understand there is a percentage of silver in the common amalgam fillings, along with tin, zinc, copper and mercury.
The big controversy is over the use of mercury which composes appox. 50% of the amalgam filling.
If one believes the results of various studies about this use it can be rather alarming,
in that after 5 years more than 25% of the mercury was gone from the fillings, concerns over toxicity of the immune system and a bunch of stuff that one can study on their own lest I be accused of causing a riot.
There is a division of dentistry that has sprung up specifically aimed at proper safe removal and replacement of amalgam fillings with other materials.
One popular author Don Colbert MD in one of his books 'What You Don't Know May Be Ailing You' tells of his own symptoms and recovery after removal of his amalgam fillings.
Apparently there is a percentage of the population whose adverse effects are magnified enough to warrant removal.
be there's a riot goin' on in cellblock #9
only life affirming platitudes allowed -Doud '07Would a full cluster of enemies be called an enema? -Piffin
Well, that gives a whole new meaning to "bite me!"here's a resize for you-http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=85672.4
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
BTW, I C you've made a splash in the virtual world with your own website nowhttp://www.easyrez.com
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That my fat buddy..( Ok, that was mean)..is a good topic. I am in process of replacing what can be replaced with the new polymers.
And as ignortant as I was, believed that "silver" was the filling, but NOOOOOOO..it is Mercury and Antimony...and gawd knows what else. They can be poisonous. And I inherited soft teeth...and the repairs are worse than then the loss of the tooth,in the long run.
I solder a lot...50/50 lead...smoke..hold solder, have a cig w/o washing hands, = eat lead.
Add it all up and strip some old paint with a heat gun...no wonder I am nuts..LOL.
Hijack while I gotcha...you want a Zoom 2002 Digital Effects Processor for your jammin? I am done with it and most guitar stuff...Sax has me spell bound. This has 100 factory preset effects ( I think) and 100 user programms..chorus, sustain, wha-wha, delay, pitch bend, etc. New in '90 was 120 bucks. Free to you.
It is strap mounted and has a little wired keypad for 4 of the most common ( that you choose) patches...cordless w/ battery, except for your 1/4 from the guitar in to the amp out. About the size of a pack of ciggies, hanging on your strap.
Works better in a home enviroment, due to the Volume can drop between patches ( going from lead to quiet) and in the dark chaos of stage, finding the wheel can take a hand ya can't free up if you are also flipping the PU selecter switch on the guitar.
I think I have all the fiddly bits that came w/it..manual and such..if not it can be figgured out by most of us.
I wanna get shy of some of this string stuff...sax rules.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
i remember reading in some obscure rag that used these little nuggets of information as filler, that the term "mad as a hatter" refers to the time when hats were made of felt, and that the felt was treated with mercury by hand (the hatters hand) and the long term effects of working as a hatter rendered one quite insane.
serious heavy metal poisoning, what i want to know is can i sue somebody for this? has that particular class action come up yet and i missed it?
i can get several people to swear on a stack o' bibles that i am looney tunes, the the the, the the the, thats all folks
Nope...ya fudded up. Its TTTTHHATTTTTTTTS all FFolks.
If ya cant stammer, ya cant collect.
Follow me..TTTThaatttsssssssssssssssss all FFFFolks.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
The secret to a long life is knowing when its time to go. M. Shocked
I don't quite follow.I wear safety glasses, hearing protection and respirators as needed and take similar precautions for various other things.What has that got to do with being tested for current content? I don't see a benefit to being tested.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I usually try to use insulated tools, so testing me for current content probably isn't necessary either.But seriously -- 99% of adults will handle a modest amount of lead (or mercury) without difficulty. You run into trouble when folks have either genetic quirks or nutritional deficiencies that keep the body from eliminating these elements (which, after all, can exist in nature in fairly high concentrations). In particular I know that a selenium deficiency (possible if one eats lots of home-grown veggies in an area where the soil is deficient) can result in a failure to efficiently eliminate mercury. Probably similar situations exist for lead.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
We had a client once who was a widow, her husband died from lead poisoning sanding and stripping old paint in an old house in Charlston. Take this stuff seriously even if you are past childraising age.
One of the stories they had as a lesson in the day long class I took was about an electrician who had always been top notch in the brain dept. Suddenly, he started missing appointments, forgetting to do stuff, making stupid mistakes on bills, getting lost in a conversation ...Turnedout that he had been chewing on the insulation sheathes that he waas tripping off the wires. Lead is how they give that rubber its colour. He'd been eating lead for a year or so, Tastes sweet.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Everyone tends to think of lead poisoning effects in relation to nervous system damage, probably because most of the public information relates to young children and developmental effects.
But there are other effects to worry about with adults. Increased blood pressure is a potential effect in adults, at lower levels than those that cause nervous system damage. Kidney damage is another potentil effect.
In other words, it isn't something to fool with. I posted a reply earlier in this discussion saying that in adults, the blood lead levels of concern (from a medical standpoint) are higher than for those in children. That was intended to point out that there's a difference in effect of the same level in adults as compared to children. I hope I didn't give the impression to anyone that lead is not a concern.
Anyone who builds or remodels, whether for a living or for their personal gratification, needs to be aware of potential health hazards and take adequate precautions to protect themselves and others.
Higher blood pressure? Hmmm.....that's something I didn't know. I'm 53 and my pressure has started to rise lately. It used to really good, now it's borderline. Maybe it's the lead or the stress of trying to fix up a very old house: "Please don't let it rain tonight....I haven't fixed that leak yet......"
I'm tempted to get a lead test, but of course I've got one of those new HSAs and everything medical comes right out of my pocket. Anyone know of an el cheapo test?
Yeah, get one of those kits at HD. Just swab your skin with it, and if the swab turns color, declare yourself a Superfund site.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
mine was only about 2o bucksplus the appointment/office visit
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did understand what you weere saying there.The reason lead affects children at lower levels than adults is that their organs and systems are still growing and developing
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Actually, I probably should have addressed that to "all", it wasn't really directed to you. Your reply to "hasbeen" just made me think that I should explain/expand on my earlier message and I wasn't thinking about who I was replying to.
<< Suddenly, he started missing appointments, forgetting to do stuff, making stupid mistakes on bills, getting lost in a conversation ...>>Sounds like I'd better get tested pronto.
i heaf nver haad enni pwobwems sat i no uf.
;o)
I've been doing lots of renovating/remodeling of old houses and appartments lately. I don't use a dust mask as often as I know I should so I recently got tested and was found to be in normal range for lead.
Marc,
actually, i mentioned this in an other thread a week or so ago----------
20-25 years ago I worked in a chrome plating shop where we handled lead everyday-----it was actually the major part of the job, melting, molding, cutting, grinding,welding lead anodes
the entire interior of the shop was covered with lead oxide-desks, walls,tools-everything.
I had several lead tests during the time I was working there----and my lead levels barely budged-despite being covered in the stuff everyday
It's been 20 years---though.
stephen