Ever heard of caulking a fence post?
I can’t remember where I heard/read this, but I saw something about caulking fence posts where the post meets the concrete (for posts set in concrete).
It doesn’t seem to me like this would do anything, since concrete is permeable and would absorb moisture from all over, not only slipping at the joint there. But I don’t know much about much, and I’m always willing to learn.
I pulled apart (or more accurately, essentially pushed over) a fence today that had failed at the top of the concrete, and thinking back, that seems to be where posts fail.
Anybody have any thoughts on the issue, or has anybody tried it to use for comparison purposes?
Enjoy the weekend…or as a plumber I know always liked to say:
“You know what they say about Friday when you’re self-employed? Only 2 more working days ’til Monday.”
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I am like you, I don't think it will do anything to help.
Fence posts shouldn't be set in concrete. IMO I would tamp stone in around them.
What you observe is exactly why I never set fence posts in crete. It will hold water to the wood and make it rot sooner.
I doubt that caulk would help much unless you also use PT post and paint it with oil based three coats first before setting it in the crete.
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I've seen that done and suppose that it may reduce the gap you'll get after the post dries and shrinks. It won't really seal it, but probably reduces the amount of water that goes down along the post.
If I have to set a post in concrete, I put ~1" - 2" of gravel in the hole, set the post, then add another 1" - 2" of gravel around the bottom before I put in the 'crete. This gives me a collar around the post and water can drain thru - instead of a cup which can hold water for weeks.
I also try to bring the 'crete a little above grade and put a "dome" on it so water will run away from the post as much as possible.
it can't hurt.... anything you do to keep the buried part of a post water/insect proof will help.... why will one post in the same fence row fail and others will last for 30 yrs? maybe the post itself was softer /larger growth rings?
true not all posts should be set in concrete... but you can't say never... i think a (pyle) driven post is much better than "set" post.... but always depends on soil conditions... i pulled some posts that were burned on the buried end that had to have been there 80+ years...
i have over a 100 2x2 10+ft steel post to set soon for an iron fence and not sure exactly how i'll do it... was thinking of boreing a 2" hole about 18" deep then drive'n em in another 6-12" useing a jackhammer with a driving cup/plate or whatever i weld up that will fit... i'd drive them from a little platform with rails that fits over the forks of my bobcat...
next issue: (sorry about the hyjack of the thread)
I'd kinda like to form/place a continous concrete curb under the fence itself... where the posts would be in the center of this curb... i think it'd look and...be much easier to maintain the landscape on both sides of the fence...
BUT... think'n i need to have an cut in this "curb" centered in each fence section for it to move some...
OR.... do i use my powered curb extruder... do the curb first... and place 3" pvc sections in the curb while its wet where the posts will go... then drill my 2" holes thru these and then drive my posts? i could then seal the posts to the pvc like a pitch pocket...? the posts are 5/16" wall so they are pretty thick... they'll be about 60" on center and support a 6ft iron picket fence (3/4" solid steel pickets)
plan to grade the fence line level so that the fence runs true/level for about 200ft in each of it's runs...
i know i think way too much about these things... again sorry for the hyjack
p
I think for your application, I would pour the curb with PVC to form a pocket all the way down to drainage material below it so that water freely drains through.Is this chain link you are thinking of?
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no... not chain link... it's a steel picket fence... 3/4" solid steel pickets 4" o/c with a 2" punched channel top & bottom... the posts are 2" sq 5/16" wall steel tube...
i was think'n .... form the curb... place'n the say... 8-10" of 3" pvc in the wet curb as it's formed push'n it down til it hits dirt/ground... then after it's all set up... come'n back with my 2" arbor and drill'n down thru the pvc to maybe 14"... then... drive'n the the posts down with my "pyle driver rig".... then welding in the fence sections between the posts...
p
My main focus was that th e hole goes all the way down through the crete, so it doesn't trap water.
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Posts rot out at grade +/- 6-8". That's where the oxygen/water mix is most deadly. So concrete is fine if you keep it about 1' below grade. I usually toss a bag or so in because it's easier than educating every single client, but well-tamped sand/gravel is just as good or better. And try to figure heights carefully, so that all cut ends are buried (that is, never cut the top of a post). Really, that's the best argument for concrete: set the cut end in plenty of concrete, wiggle the post up to the exact height, then brace it off until the concrete has cured.AitchKay
"it's easier than educating every single client"If a client feels they need to tell me how to set fence posts, they have the wrong man for the job.
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I have had good success with using concrete on the sides of the post and leaving the bottom open wityh stone or gravel in the bottom of the hole. I have also used 2 metal straps which are about 0.25" x 1.25" and out one on the front and one on the back of the post. The I use two bolts to secure the post to the straps. The straps are in the concrete about one foot. It allows a post to be easily replaced. One in the back and front keep the fence from swaying in a wind. If the straps are placed on the side then the fence can easily sway in the wind because the stability of the posts are dependent on the flexibility of the strap material.
"It allows a post to be easily replaced. "Theory or have you actually tried that?
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When I came up with the idea I was asked to replace some rotten posts on a fence. That is an idea I came up with and have been using it for about 26 years now. I have never had to replace a rotten post since.I did fail to mention that I use galvanized steel or paint the steel with zinc paint.
Edited 7/15/2008 10:27 pm by gb93433
So - you really can't say that it makes it easier to replace the post later then, can you, except in theory.I ask because I have had to deal with something like that - so long ago now that my mind is foggy on the details, but the steel was rusting and flaking by then, the wood post swelled up, and not way to remove it by just sliding it up an d out without destroying the crete footing and the metal in it.
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The steel, I used was galvanized or I painted it with cold zinc paint.On one job I left the top part of the post in place and removed the rotten part then dug a hole and filled it with concrete and added the straps. Then I attached the post. When I attached the post I left a space between the bottom of the post and top of the concrete. It keeps the post from being in contact with the concrete.
So Master, what is the Piffin method for setting wooden fence posts? I have torn out about 200 feet of old rotted fencing so far, most of the posts snapped off right at ground level. I know I will have to dig down 36" for my frost line here in Kansas. I have decided to go with a 8' tall fence to keep the weiner dogs in. I recall seeing a rule of thum that a third of the post should be buried but was hoping to get away with 24" in the ground? You coming thorugh Kansas anytime soon to take care of my house?
what's your soil like there? The clay here makes it pretty easy to pack the whole with nothing other than what came out. Tamping/poking it with the handle of a sledge hammer gets nearly all of the removed soil back into the hole along with the post.
I'd want at least 36" for 8' above, more if I could. Wind is an issue there too, isn't it?
Nope, no wind in Kansas, didn't you see Wizrd of Oz? Atually there are wind farms popping up all over the place in western Kansas.
Soil is pretty good actually, probably was a farm some tine ago, nice and black but I haven't dug down 36" yet.
Black is normally the hummus rich soil that supports growth of the micro-organisms very well
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But clay holds water against the wood to accelerate rot.
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only when it rains
so far I'm on 15 yrs with no noticable rot which includes time when it used to rain
Piffin,That the clay will hold water is why we either set post in concrete or just backfill with clay.If you set post in gravel it acts like a swimming pool.I have treated post in concrete from '78 that are still solid.Local conditions dictate methods.KK
anyplace I have lived, the concrete cracks and breaks outwards from post corners from freezing water contained against the post.You are not going deep enough with gravel.
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Does not freeze much here, Frost line is probably 1/2".It would be foolish to put a non treated post in gravel unless you went to the rock-sand layer at about 12'.Stock ponds dot the landscape because of the clay. I have four.KK
I recall seeing a rule of thum...
How deep to set the post is determined by frost line. Contact your building department and see what they recommend.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Frost line is 36 around here. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that where the bottom of the footing needs to be to prevent heave? Theoretically I could dump 12" gravel in set the post and them fill in with whatever?
The post needs to be below frostline to prevent heaving. If there was water in the rocks and it frooze, the post would be pushed out of the ground.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Edited 7/14/2008 3:56 pm by Marv
There is a situation called an ice lense that can form in water retaining soils such as clay and heave the post out of the ground even when the base is below the frost line.Short explanation is that ice freezes to the post itself, and there is a lens of ice extending out away from it at say, 18" deep. Once formed, that ice prevents more water from occassional thaws and winter rains, from percolating deeper into the underlying soils before it freezes ABOVE the lens. Successive layers formed in later winter and early spring form successively higher in the soils expanding that lens and jacking the post up out of the ground since the ice is freezing to the post also.Solution is to line the post with PVC or plastic, or to use gravel that will drain water away from the post
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I dig down four feet, throw in a couple spoonfulls of 3/4" stone and set the post, then compact gravel around it all the way up. Gravel lets water drain away from the wood.
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Regular plain old gravel ok or is there something I should specify when I order a truckload?
Lotsa quarries around here so at least gravel is cheap. Beat the heck out of mixing up a ton of concrete that for sure.
As long as it drains/percs easy. A wee bit of clay in it is fine because that acts a lot like portland as a binder to let it compact tighter while still allowing drainage.I buy inch minus graded, All soil here is clay and cost is in transport from the mainland anyways.
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I am also in the tamped stone belief. Strong as concrete and no drying time during construction.
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Caulking won't help much, if at all. Ground moisture will migrate throught the concrete regardless of whether you caulk the top seam.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thats why I set a Simpson AB or ABU into the concrete and bolt the 4x4 fence post to this with 2- 1/2" through bolts.
ML