I can make my own VG fir by buying locally flat-sawn 2″ rough lumber, ripping strips and turning them on edge. Voila, VG fir. The quality is good, and the price is right. Build up a surface with biscuits, clamps and a planer.
I’ve had good success with various bathroom and table surfaces using Minwax’s Helmsman Spar Urethane, a fairly flexible and durable coating that is often used for bar surfaces.
So I’m thinking about making my own VG fir kitchen counters. Lots of hours, but it’s my time and materials are reasonable. Am I crazy?
(And no, we don’t chop onions directly on the counter….that’s what cutting boards are for!)
Thx,
Scott.
Replies
For sure. It's a great alternative to the ubiquitous granite that is a must in every house, condo or hotel room these days. My kitchen is mixture of wood, stainless steel and tile counters. I didn't build the wood ones myself, but I don't see why you shouldn't. I have 5 coats of waterborne urethane on them. No water or other damage in 12 years.
I saw a very cool kitchen in a design magazine where the hardwood flooring of a split level house extended to form the counters in the kitchen below. Why not?
I made a maple kitchen counter top, and bought one from Grainger (work bench top). The cost was virtually the same by the time I bought the wood, biscuits, glue and added in the waste. The one I made was a non-standard size so I really needed to make it. I have 5 or 6 years with them and no regret. I shot about 10 coats of thinned poly on them before I installed them and they are holding up fine under fairly rough use.
IMHO the biscuits are not needed. Glue up a couple pieces & bust em - they won't break on the glue line. They're great if you have to have critical alignment if your stock is already at final thickness, but otherwise glue them close and plane it to final thickness. Much quicker.
I've found with hardwoods that you also have to be careful to keep the biscuits buried fairly deep off the surface. If the biscuits are within 3/4" or less from the face, AND you apply glue to the biscuit itself, you can get a subtle swelling of the biscuit transmitted to the surface. So the biscuit swells, you mill/sand the surface to the final grit and apply a finish. Over the next few weeks, the biscuits dry back out and shrink, pulling the finished surface down with it and leaving little football shaped depressions in the surface. It can be surprisingly obvious on a glossy surface.I use far fewer biscuits now than I used to, mostly for longer glueups where I need alignment help. I space them pretty wide, I keep them deep and I don't glue them directly.-t
I have found wood to be quite serviceable as a counter top - but you must appreciate its' quirks!
First is the finish ... pretty much wiping it with mineral oil until it won't soak up any more. Even then, from time to time you will need to clean the top (wipe with oven cleaner, then rinse) and re-treat.
Appliances that make heat - like a Foreman grill - will affect the finish. More important, water - especially standing water - are pure destruction to the counter. I would not use it to mount a sink.
Mineral oil on oak on a about 8 YO counter, no problems.
Scored an unfinished pile of maple strips destined for a bowling alley in late 90's, turned that into the counter. Resin glue and screws, dried for another 6 months inside beforee mineral oil to prevent separations.
I have an old section of bowling alley that I was going to make into a countertop.Weird thing is, someone offered it to me for free and I accepted w/o even seeing it. When I went to pick it up, it was almost completely SYP with only a few short maple strips for decoration.Worse, it was just nailed together (although it does have a loose T&G).So I pulled it all apart; probably pulled 1000 or more 8d nails and then I glued it all back together. Now it looks great. Just needs a finish and a use.DC
From what I learned at the Biltmore estate in NC and have seen elsewhere since, bowling alleys typically only have maple near the front of the alley - where the ball is dropped and the floor is prone to denting or being walked on. It then transitions to pine or a cheaper wood where the ball is rolling.
-Nate
I've done a couple out of reclaimed chestnut. First one used biscuits, which failed in a few palaces. A few pieces of the counter checked length-wise across the grain, so I took it out a year after install and spliced in new pieces, using my Domino.We finished that one with black wax in the nailholes, then mineral oil buffed with salad bowl wax. The others we dominoed and built it up in sections of four or five pieces, using titebond 2. Finished by filling holes with very dark solid shellac, applied with soldering irons. Shellaced the hole thing, then buffed out with salad bowl wax. I've seen first and one of the subsequent ones in the last few weeks. One is in a house hold with children, one used heavily for entertaining. They both take wear well--the shellaced one doesn't dent as readily, but the matt look of the other with lots of real open grain is a little more natural looking.Attached is a picture of the mineral oil/beeswax one.
i also found the dishwasher steam and heat effects my mapel
Whenever the dishwasher's steam and heat starts affecting the counter top, I tell her to take a dip in the pool.
Better be sure your monitor is facing the wall or you and a few other smart guys will be sleeping on the sofa tonight :)
I just bought her a new Lincoln today. I can get away with a lot for a while.
Made in China???
According to the label 40% US/60% Canada.Lincoln MKX
Had a house than the kitchen counter was made out of a section of bowling alley.
Pretty cool but I had to take care with it as to heat & water. Kept it oiled and every now in then wipe it down with a disinfectant to kill the bacteria.
I have wood countertops in my house, both in the kitchen and in the master bath.
I used 8/4 teak planks in the kitchen. Four planks edge glued (biscuits and West Systems epoxy), then belt sanded with 80 grit, then mineral oil, the total length is around 18'. I built deep base cabinets, so my countertops are 30" deep.
The kitchen countertops take a fair amount of abuse which is why I used an easily renewable mineral oil instead of a film finish. On the bathroom countertops and tub deck I went with a film finish and used Minwax Spar Urethane.
Depending on the quality of the wood you get, for fir a film finish might be better, it'll offer more protection. Especially on the end grain if you have an undermount sink.
I also have a teak end-grain island cap in teh kitchen that's used a food prep cutting board. About 4' square and 5" thick, the thing gets used and abused and there are still virtually no knife edge scars on the end grain. Regardless of what wood you use, for an end-grain prep/chopping block I'd use a renewable mineral oil finish instead of a film finish.
I've done the same with good results. I agree with Bruce though, biscuits don't add any strength. They do help with alignment but I prefer cauls for that.
The other thing I would question is the use of a film-forming finish. A penetrating oil will be easier to touch up over time. Mixing spar varnish with turpentine and tung oil is one way to make your own penetrating finish, but there are plenty of commercial versions out there. Or shellac makes a durable, food-safe finish, but it does dissolve in the presence of alcohol so it wouldn't work well at my house.
I made bath vanity countertops from VG fir for both our bathrooms. They're about 10yrs old now, and still in good shape. 5 coats of polyurethane, hand-brushed on top and bottom. Sinks are under-counter mounted, and the tops are attached to the vanity cabinet with angle brackets that allow for seasonal movement, which is small with VG fir.
Reservations on using this for the kitchen:
You would essentially have a countertop of polyurethane as regards its durability. Not good for heat resistance, and water stains could easily form if water is left standing for very long. The unglazed foot of dishes and platters is very abrasive, even if you don't do direct cutting on the tops. You probably don't want a kitchen countertop that has to be babied just for the sake of its beauty.
I think a hardworking wood kitchen countertop needs an unfinished surface, or maybe just an oil finish that can easily be repaired/refreshed. As beautiful as VG fir is, it would not perform well--the hard growth rings are very hard, but the soft rings are very soft and very absorbent, and it is also prone to splintering. Maple or beech would be better in the kitchen.
Speaking of beech, check out the ready-made beech countertops on the Ikea website. They are unbelievably cheap if the few sizes they offer would work for your application.
Why do you think poly is so fragile?
We use the hell out of our countertop (it is also the catch all for things destined for the garage) and I have not noticed any heat damage or water staining. I had one section under a coffee maker that was wet most of the time for years. A quick wipe and it was fine.
I don't put hot skillets on the counter but pans with boiling water won't hurt it. A 400 degree skillet will hurt any of them. We do try to use a trivet under pans but you know how that goes with kids around. As far as I can tell it seems as tough as laminates and solid surfaces like Corian.
I also like the idea that knocking over a glass will not result in breaking it, the problem with stone products.
Worst case and I do hurt the counter, fixing it is easier/cheaper than any other product and so is replacing it.
I started out very skeptical, this was my wife's idea, but experience has made me a believer.
Maybe this comes down to what you expect to see in a countertop.
If you use glossy poly, you expect to see glossy poly, and anything not glossy looks damaged or worn, out of place. Like the poly-coated polished brass faucets--they look great out of the box, but in a few years, not so good. Whereas, an uncoated brass finish that gets polished once in awhile takes on a fine-looking patina that can never be imitated.
If you have an oiled maple top with some scratches, knife marks, dents, etc., that seems fully in character with what you have, and is just what you'd expect in a working kitchen countertop.
A baker friend of mine has a 40-yr-old maple countertop for his main work table in his bakery, and it looks great. He's never applied any kind of finish, cuts directly on it and cleans it mostly by scraping it with his baker's dough divider (sort of the big brother of the cabinet scraper).
Granted, many housewives will come down on the side of glossy because they're conditioned by pix in House Beautiful to want a kitchen that could be a showpiece when there's nothing happening there. (When is that, really?)
I say: Let wood countertops be what they want to be, what they were meant to be, and enjoy them for what they are. If you want gloss and appearance, go with Formica; it's cheaper than wood and tougher than poly.
Use satin poly
Or flat paint.
>>>satin polyI was about to say that....that's exactly what I do, and it's probably what I'll do when I make this thing. Scott.
This is the top right nowhttp://gfretwell.com/ftp/counter.jpg
Hahaha.... I like how you tossed the hammer and cutters in for effect!Thanks all, much food for thought.Scott.
Actually I put them there because I had them in my car and they were on the way to the garage. Needless to say there has never been a car in my garage.
You are right in one sense. Using poly on counters means you don't get the benefit of the wood for cutting and as prep surface the way an oil finish allows. However spilling wine or balsamic vinegar on an oiled board gives it an instant lived in look which might not appeal to many people. I don't think poly's durability is an issue. We use it on floors which take much more abuse than any countertop.
Ikea's counters are quite nice. The ones I put in a cabin kitchen at a resort with 4 coats of poly still look fine several years later
Finish both sides with Varathane. Thin the Varathane with the proper solvent or it goes on too thick. I did this on two tops I made for my daughter about 15 years ago.Both tops still look new. I think this stuff is an epoxy. There are other products for bars that are similar.
mike
Did one of two wide boards of vertical grain ash - stained and oiled like they did in the 20's-30's - beautiful.
Jeff
How did you get the wide boards, quarter sawn?
GC or mill shop got them - not sure where.
I don't have time to read so many previous posts, so pardon me if I repeat others' advice. You don't need biscuits. Edge glued joints are stronger than the wood itself already.