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Excavation / Stump Removal

DoRight | Posted in Construction Techniques on March 14, 2011 12:11pm

I have not contacted any excavation contractors yet, so I would like to ask a general question here.

When doing site prep work for a crawlspace foundation and driveway, what is best practice for removing associated trees and stumps?  The site has trees in the neighborhod of 80 to 100 feet plus height and butts (stumps) of up to 2 feet in diameter.  I imagine pushing trees out before they are cut down would give a cat leverage, but with so many trees and being so tall, I am not sure this would be best.  Would cutting the trees down leaving the stumps two feet proud of the ground be better for the cat operator?  Would cutting only the larger trees or only the smaller trees be better?  Thoughts?

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  1. Scott | Mar 14, 2011 01:13pm | #1

    Around here it's typically done with a faller running a saw and another guy running an excavator. The excavator needs to have a hydraulic thumb and the operator needs to be experienced with handling trees. Typically the machine is about the size of a Hitachi 200 or a bit larger.

    The faller works ahead of the excavator falling trees, and sometimes the machine is needed to help with snags or tricky falls. The machine can also be used for loading logs to a truck, site cleanup, and building large burn piles.

    Stumps are easy...usually machine digs around it and then plucks it out with the bucket and thumb.

    1. DoRight | Mar 14, 2011 08:24pm | #2

      Stumps

      Thanks again calvin.

      Should I first use spray foam on the stumps?  LOL.

      I do a bit of logging for profit, very little profit that is.  So I was planning on doing the logging, slash piling and burning, but was not sure if a cat operator needed more leverage.  Thanks.  Do I need to cut the stumps a bit high or not?

      1. Scott | Mar 14, 2011 09:15pm | #3

        >>>Thanks again calvin.

        You

        >>>Thanks again calvin.

        You mean Scott, right?

        >>>Do I need to cut the stumps a bit high or not?

        Nope, not in my experience. Loggers around here are very conscious of losing merchantible wood to stump waste. In fact there are laws against leaving high stumps.

        With the right machine and the right operator, it's a rare stump that would cause problems even though it's snipped close to the ground.

        1. calvin | Mar 15, 2011 06:02am | #5

          Scott

          He's hearing voices again.

        2. DoRight | Mar 15, 2011 12:05pm | #6

          Sorry about that.  Calvin is always around here, so ......

      2. User avater
        BossHog | Mar 15, 2011 04:58pm | #8

        I wouldn't way you had to leave the stumps tall.   It would definitely give the excavator more to work with.

        But if you're gonna use the logs, I wouldn't bother. They'll manage to get the stumps pulled out O.K.

  2. bd | Mar 15, 2011 04:16am | #4

    Check with your excavator. Practices may differ.

    As Scott implied, excavators seem a popular way to go, but many still use tracked dozers or loaders, at least, around here. When we built, I cut all of the trees off as high as I could reach safely. Was 6' 4" at the time, so I had pretty tall stumps. My GC's usual excavating contractor was down for equipment problems at the time we were ready to start, so he checked around. He brought a number of excavating contractors out. They took one look at the stumps & said "No way!" Several of them turned the job down even though jobs were scarce at the time. They wanted the weight of the tree for leverage, as you guessed they might. They were afraid of the extra strain on the machines. Didn't want to break a machine on a small job where the total cost of the work wouldn't cover the repairs.

    That said, lately, I've seen more & more lots around here clear-cut before excavating the stumps.

    1. DoRight | Mar 15, 2011 12:12pm | #7

      I suppose I need to talk to an excavator before I start cutting.

      That is always a good idea.  I thought maybe I would find one here.

      I have at least one 120 +/- tall Spruce, must be 30 inches diameter at the ground.  Other trees are Hemlock and Cedar in various diameters, 12 to 24 inches, may be a few larger.  If we push thirty of those down at one time that is one heck of a mess and pile.   I also don't have a large place to shove it off.  I was thinking about burning as I cut.  yes, it is green wood, but once you get something burning you can keep it smoldering.

      As for high stumping?  Sure it wastes wood and that is a shame, but this is one project not a 40 acre clear cut.  And besides, log prices suck right now and friewood probably pays as well.  So cut the high stumps up for firewood.

      I guess I will make a couple of calls.

      Thanks for all the banter, bd, calvin, Scott, .... have I missed anyone?

  3. junkhound | Mar 15, 2011 06:13pm | #9

    40 years ago I cleared my own land with a D2 and a bunch of 1/2 and 5/8 cable and a couple of big blocks.

    I used the D Fir logs for the house, some were about 30 in DBH.  My plans needed 14 ea 15" or larger dia 21 ft long logs for beams, and 7 more 18 ft logs for posts.  Gott'em all just clearing the road.

    I did not have a big machine to get stumps out, so backed the small cat up to the tree, put a 30 ft extension ladder on the canopy, climed up and set a choker and block if need be and pulled them over 1 at a time.  Had lots of energy then.  Had to put 2 blocks on some of the bigger ones. 

    Cut logs to size once on the ground, then the stumps and root balls rolled right into a pile.  Could burn then, folks gotta use a big tub grinder on stumps now around here.

    Have fun. 

  4. DoRight | Mar 25, 2011 03:23pm | #10

    Track Hoe or Dozer?

    Talked to two excavators, one with a track hoe and one with a dozer.  Both said cut the stumps high although they can push trees over.  Both, natural said they had the proper equipment for the job.  What would anyone expect them to say?  So the question for impartial folks is;  from your experience which equipment would make the shortest work of the job.  A hand shovel can do the job but take a very long time.

    1. User avater
      BossHog | Mar 28, 2011 05:06pm | #11

      An excavator is hard to beat.  They can move that arm around a lot quicker than you can reposition a dozer.  They can easily dig around the stump first then push it over.

      But - A dozer will work too.   Which makes me wonder - What exactly is the goal here?  You asked which machine would make the "shortest work of the job".    Are you looking for the cheapest price, the quickest job, or the least amount of disturbance to the site?

      If it's price you're worried about, have the different companies give you a proposal. 

      1. DoRight | Mar 30, 2011 01:58pm | #14

        What is the goal?

        I guess the nature of my question is financial.  Perhaps it is a push between the two different pieces of equipment, perhaps not. 

        I am concerned about site disturbance; however, it seems to me this is of little concern for the actual site of teh building and immediate yard area.  I would like to keep equipment as much on the site of the driveway as possible as to preserve the natural vegetation along this approach. 

        Thanks

        1. User avater
          BossHog | Mar 30, 2011 04:59pm | #16

          If it's a question of costs, which machine is better is only half the story.

          The trackhoe might be able to do twice as much per hour. But if it costs you twice as much per hour then your overall cost would be a wash.

    2. Scott | Mar 29, 2011 12:29am | #13

      My local guy has a D6 dozer and a Hitachi 200 hoe. The hoe always gets the logging jobs. Like I said the thumb is invaluable for picking up logs, debris, and building burn piles. The hoe is also better at digging around stumps before plucking them, and for general site cleanup.

      Of course, it sounds like I'm talking about a machine here, but I'm not....it's all about the operator. This guy is a pro operator that can top, limb, and load a tree usually in less than 20 seconds. You've got to go with what you've got, so your local talent may see things differently. There's more than one way to do things.

  5. dgale | Mar 28, 2011 11:24pm | #12

    I'm not sure where you live but as a general suggestion when doing this sort of clearing, check with local natural resource agencies or groups involved in stream restoration projects - surplus logs, rootwads and best of all logs with rootwads are prized for adding to stream channels for stream restoration projects.  This is especially true here in the Pacific Northwest but is likely true elsewhere in the Country as well.  This can not only be an opportunity to easily dispose of surplus material but also help in restoring your local fish populations.  I imagine you could even arrange a tax deduction for such contributions.

    As far as how to best remove trees, it depends in part on if the logs are merchantable and also if you will have heavy equipment on site.  If yes to both, simply fall the trees and buck the logs as normal and then just use a backhoe or excavator to dig out the stumps.  If the logs/stumps will be used for stream restoration work as noted above, we always push the trees over with an excavator to keep the stem and rootwad intact, as this makes much more complex and natural wood for adding to a stream channel.  I work for the US Fish and Wildlife Service conducting stream restoration work and we often will arrange for a 5-20 yard end-dump to come to work sites and pick up materials to be stockpiled for restoration work.  This is a win-win, as we get materials for projects and the landowner or contractor gets rid of this stuff hassle-free and without dump fees.  

    1. DoRight | Mar 30, 2011 02:04pm | #15

      Nice Idea.  The site of my work is the panhandle of north idaho.  Where are you located?  I have not heard of that type of work in this area.  I have seen that type of work on the west side of Washington.

      The soils in my area are loam and clay.  This typically means a big root ball with more soil than root.  Not sure you would put that in a stream bed.

      My logs will be sold, and I assume for your kind of project you like a 10, 20 foot log attached to you stumps.

      At any rate if you are looking for stumps in North Idaho .....

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