Replies

1. 
   doug_hubbard | Nov 28, 2001 09:20pm | #1

   *
   Matter of taste Steve. Get some smaller sticks of each, dress them out and let the customer decide.

   here's a couple of pics of douglas fir 6x10's

1. 
   Michael_Rimoldi | Nov 29, 2001 01:48am | #2

   *Steve, If your client wants the rough sawn, timber look, I'd go with the cedar. Most of the fir I see is a more finished look. Depends on what they want of course.Mike

1. 
   doug_hubbard | Nov 29, 2001 02:11am | #3

   *In my experience cedar tends to be darker Steve.You can get your beams in pretty much any wood you desire. Most pine and firs should not be much more than what your lumber yard stocks. In cost I mean.I would really stress letting/ making the customer choose the material.

1. 
   rob.kelly | Nov 29, 2001 03:09am | #4

   *If cost is important, consider 3 sided false beams with lockmitered edges, made from 4/4 material. Done correctly they are indistinguishable from solid unless you know what you're looking at, and a lot lighter to install.

1. 
   gary_gattis | Nov 29, 2001 05:19am | #5

   *we took cedar 4x6 beams, ripped them down the middle to 3x4, and stained them a dark color... they look great. I'll post pics here later.good luck!

2. 
   bill_burns | Nov 29, 2001 05:05pm | #6

   *birch cabinets and trim, why not birch beams?

3. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Nov 29, 2001 06:13pm | #7

   *It probaly varies with geography, but here in Western Washinton, Western Red Cedar would be the darkest of the species you mentioned. Douglas Fir and Ponderosa Pine age to about the same tones, with Pine having a lot more character and bold grain. "Hemfir" (a mixture of Hemlock, Spruce, and Alpine Firs) is almost white lumber. It is by far the lightest. Of course, I'm talking about natural coloring from exposure to light, not taking any stains into account.

4. 
   Mike_Gabriel | Nov 29, 2001 07:05pm | #8

   *It depends on the look(and if the owner's specific about it at all), and the ceiling style also. For a flat ceiling room in my house, we wanted the exposed-beam rustic look in lighter wood, so I screwed up 2x4 nailers flat in the pattern I wanted(room: 12'x20', beams(faux): tic-tac-toe pattern), and used 1x pine to flesh out the beams, leaving a 1/4" reveal on the bottom. The 2 short beams are 1x6 sides, 1x4 bottom(inset), and the 2 long beams are all 1x4. Lotsa trim work at the junctions/ends, but I'm really happy with the results. I also hung the sheetrock on the ceiling(this room was gutted) with the beam pattern in mind, so the beams covered the joints(I really hate taping/muddin over my head!!!)Just one of many ways to do it,Mike

5. 
   Steve_Snodgrass | Nov 29, 2001 07:42pm | #9

   *Thanks for the info "Crazy Legs." Dare I ask? You've confirmed my suspicions that hem-fir is more white of a species. For some reason, my supplier wants me to use cedar. Next question - Hem-fir beams (6 x 8)will have to be ordered and will be sent green. Any advice on curing to avoid twisting? Cracks are OK. I'm in eastern Nebraska and it is definately cold and dry this time of year. Thanks again.

6. 
   jim_"crazy_legs"_blodg | Nov 29, 2001 08:35pm | #10

   *I'm almost positive we can still get 4 x Hemfir beams kiln dried here, although I haven't in several years. That was always the advantage of hemfir framing lumber over "sgrn fir", the hemfir wasn't as strong, but you knew what you were getting. I don't know if you can get 6 x kd, but maybe you could order a couple extra beams and take them all to a local kiln.Funny thing about regional differences in grading. I grew up in Massachsettes, and I distinctly remember the term "free of heart", meaning the log was milled in such a way that the lumber didn't include heartwood, I guess because it's less stable, but I don't exactly remember.When I came out here to the Great Northwest, I noticed lots of beams that included heartwood were still graded "#2". That's supposed to be a pretty good beam, so at first I thought some were maybe misgraded, and I asked around at lumber yards and on jobsites. You should have seen some of the looks I got "free of heart, what the heck you talking about?".Anyway, it might just be a hardwood/softwood thing, but if you have to order beams special, I'd still try to order free of heart, I do think they're more stable. Of course, if you get to pick them out of a pile yourself, the closer you get to vertical grain, the more stable the piece will stay, I think that's true for ANY lumber.

7. 
   doug_hubbard | Nov 29, 2001 11:02pm | #11

   *Here is a wrap outa white pine Steve.Why do you have to buy green? I'd look around some more

8. 
   doug_hubbard | Nov 29, 2001 11:04pm | #12

   *That cab in the lower right is birch- no stain aged about forty years

9. 
   BarryO_ | Nov 30, 2001 03:20am | #13

   *> Next question - Hem-fir beams (6 x 8)will have to be ordered and will be sent green. Any advice on curing to avoid twisting? Prayer. Alot of prayer. Also: keep out of the sun and rain, store off the ground with plenty of even air circulation all around. Get them installed as quickly as possible. Since cracks are OK, pray (some more) that they'll crack, in situ, rather than twist.At least you don't need pressure-treated hem-fir; those beams tend to twist with the slightest provocation.Best stuff for this is reclaimed old-growth Doug Fir milled from beams taken from an old demolished building, but not so easy to find.

10. 
    Steve_Snodgrass | Nov 30, 2001 07:26pm | #14

    *Thanks BarryO. That's what I'm afraid of and why my supplier is pushing cedar. What's your opinion on whether the casual observer can tell the difference between cedar and hem-fir unstained? If they're similar, my dilemna is over.

11. 
    BarryO_ | Nov 30, 2001 10:27pm | #15

    *It depends on what type of cedar you're talking about. The western red cedar (WRC) we have out here looks alot different. If this is eastern (or northern) white cedar it'll look pretty close.

12. 
    Buz_Ottem | Dec 01, 2001 06:11am | #16

    *... and Steve ...... seems I read 'cost' was a factor. here in western Oregon, western red cedar is near gold in value while hemfir is lowest cost 'framing' material. seems your supplier may just be interested in making a buck on you. I haven't read all the posts, but by far the one that made the most sense was the one suggesting you 'build' the beams, three sided, fitted well and no one will ever know. Hands down, there is no other logical solution. Low cost, can be made to look great, no twisting, light weight ....... need I say more?

13. 
    Mike_Gabriel | Dec 03, 2001 10:17pm | #17

    *All the reasons I did mine the way I did, I couldn't agree more.I'll try and scan in a pic later.

14. 
    doug_hubbard | Dec 04, 2001 01:42am | #18

    *Trust me Steve-get four or so samples of material these beams could be made of and figure cost diff and let the customer decide.have 'em sign offyou don't get stuck. or trust the opinions of people you have never met to tell you that your customer will like hem/fir over cedar over white pine...

15. 
    Steve_Snodgrass | Dec 06, 2001 11:08pm | #19

    *Doug - we have an appointment to visit the yard tomorrow. Perhabps they'll even revert to the original specification - 6 x 6 birch box beams. Thanks again!

16. 
    doug_hubbard | Dec 07, 2001 01:43am | #20

    *Excellent- stick wit me kid I'll make ya a star...

2. 
   Steve_Snodgrass | Dec 07, 2001 01:43am | #21

   *
   My client is interested in using exposed beams (not structural) to give a rustic feel to their great room. We are trying to keep cost down by using what is readily available in the local lumber yard; that being cedar and hem-fir. My supplier tells me that the two do not differ in appearance. The cabinets and trim are natural birch. Which would be more appropriate for the beams - cedar or hem-fir?