My house is almost ready for roofing and I would like to trim the
bottom end of the exposed rafters in a semicircle. I intend to do this (the circle, not the roof framing) myself to save labor costs. The obivious way, of course, is to use a jigsaw but since there are going to be about 120 rafters I wondered if someone has a better way to do them, en mass, as it were. Something I could rent perhaps to do several at one time.
Tigger
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Replies
I don't know about doing more than one at a time, but you could use a hole saw in a plywood template to speed the job up and keep things consistent.
depends whether he wants a concave or convex end!I was picturing the teardropHe is almost ready for the roof. It would have been easier to cut these before putting the rafters up. I used a jigsaw on the benches for mine.
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Oh yeah. Funny how you get a picture in your head and don't consider alternatives sometimes.
Curious, depending on the size of the rafter, would it be better to add to the rafter the style of end by making something in the shop and splicing onto the rafter end rather than cutting the rafter end. Like you said, it would have been easier before the roof went up
Sometimes. That depends on how long the overhang is, how you will attach it, and what the snow load is fo rthis.
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...would it be better to add to the rafter the style of end by making something in the shop and splicing onto the rafter end...?
I've seen it done this way on period homes. It seems that decorative rafter tails were available through catalogs, and that the builders would just face nail them to the rafters on site.
The rafters themselves, made of common framing lumber, termintated at the wall's top plates, and only the fancy tails were visible. The tails were nailed (cheek to cheek) to the rafters, and lapped several feet in order to provide some strength to the roof overhang.
These decorative rafters seem to have been cut from 3x stock, so they are much beefier than common 2x framing as well.
I'm sure others will weigh in with some suggestions, but I can't think of anything that's going to speed up the job AND produce a level of workmanship that will pass muster.
I once did something similar, albeit on a much small scale (maybe 24 rafters).
Used a jig saw, and as they're prone to do, the cut wandered from 90 degrees. Found myself wishing I had the Porter-Cable oscillating spindle sander shown below to clean things up.
But 120 Rafters? Big task no matter how you work it out.
Maybe rough cut with the jigsaw (gang cutting 3-4 at a time with a long aggressive blade?) and clean it up with a template guided router?
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2796
View Image
As Piffin said, before framed would have been easier, but......
I've done a few with a big router and a 3/8 cutting bit with a collar and a masonite jig. Makes a nice clean cut in two passes (both from the same side, half depth each pass. I've done mine on a set of horses, though, not in the air off a set of brackets. I would still choose that over a jigsaw though for the number you're talking about. What provisions have you made for the overhangs? Personally, if you're going to all the trouble of ornate rafter tails, I hope you're not going to be looking at the bottom of the cdx with nails sticking out! Check out Mike Smiths thread with the ( I think ) bead board on the bottom edge. Nice finishing touch, and authentic look for all the trouble you're going to anyhow..............
Bing
I guess I've used the wrong terminology again. I meant that we were getting ready to start the roof framing, not shingling.
- The sander was awesome but out of my price range.
- I DO have a router but I'm not sure it will do something as heavy duty as a two pass job on a 2x. I like the idea of doing it that way and using the jig though. Had planned on something nice underneath, but hadn't decided what, I'm open to suggestions.Tigger
Had planned on something nice underneath, but hadn't decided what, I'm open to suggestions.
The style of rafter tail you use really depends on the style of your house in general. Here's a picture of a circa 1906 house to show you some corbels that are on the fancy side.
Of course, the best way to go about milling the stock is also highly dependent on the style you choose.
As others have already said, a good approach is to rough out with a jig saw and then clean things up with a deep router bit.
I made about 75 corbels from 6x6 cedar on one project. We found that we could get pretty good results by bandsawing alone, with a little detail sanding on an oscillating spindle as required.
I'd also point out that you can get *very* nice results by roughing out and then finishing on a vertical belt sander. (The sanding is done perpendicular to the grain, so is very agressive and fast.) Of course, this is limited to convex shapes, but it all depends on the style you choose.
Edited 1/7/2007 6:37 pm ET by Ragnar17
Man - I just popped that picture up and my 3-yr-old youngest girlie behind me at the table said instantly, "That is gorgeous!"
LOL!
Forrest - yeah, just duplicate that pic, you'll be fine
McDesign,
It sure is a gorgeous house, isn't it? I can't take any credit for that particular one, since it's just a picture I snapped. But I *have* made corbels very similar to those pictured.
They really knew how to make a beautiful exterior in that decade (1900-1910).
No doubt cutting them on the ground before framing would be easier or easiest. However, other threads have talked about the need to cut off rafter tails after framing just to get them all to line up straight. If getting rafters to line up during framing is a typcial problem, then cutting the tails on the ground would be a waste of time as they would likely not line up once framed into the roof.
So, what gives?
Accurately cutting rafters on the ground using jigs and or patterns will give you a perfect line at the tails if the building was framed "correctly" ie. straight, plumb and level. Gang cutting works great for this as long as the saw is set perfectly square and the sawyer is good at what he does.
One of those places where "by eye" doesn't work out very well unless you want to be back up on the roof recutting rafter tails to achieve a true straight line.
Some do however find it easier to just string line everything after installation and then cut them .
Trusses are jig built and it is easy to have them be "spun" end for end while installing. Any imperfection in the jig will show up as twice the error at the eave and ridge line. I always mark or have the plant mark the ends of the trusses to ensure they all go up the way they were laid up on the jig.
A good truss plant helps.
Check these out - "prefab" wood corbels that slip over truss rafters
http://www.quattrocorbel.com
That link is a no-goodnik. But I Googled for it and got the page, then snipped these pics.
I would like to hear from some users.
View Image
View Image
Made in fingerjointed and primed "B.C. whitewood" (what is that?), and sold in a few end patterns and at varying lengths up to 42 inches, it looks like a great way to decorate a roof framed with trusses.
Edited 1/11/2007 2:32 pm ET by Gene_Davis
Man - those are cool!
Forrest
great tip..
hey.... one of the problems with exposed rafter tails is they need special engineering for wind-uplift
in our wind zone, we need 2x blocking at all of the roof perimeter, which is easy to comply with if you use a 2x sub-fascia
on our current job... the BI called me out on it .... we're using 1x8 shiplap sheathing overlaid by 5/8 T&G Advantech
.... said he'd accept (3) 8d nails in each rafter tip.. but to be careful in other jurisdictions.. i may have to get a PE to spec a fasteningMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike - should I guess that the 1x8 covered with 3/4 advantech was in
the raftertail zone only, or was the whole roof done this way?
If tail only : could you go into a little more detail, like how long were the tails, was the angle different, etc. ?
TIGGER... the tails (2' )
View Image
& rakes ( also 2') were all overlayed
View Image
these are all in a thread called ## Quarterdeck## in the photo section
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 1/13/2007 7:07 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 1/13/2007 7:08 pm ET by MikeSmith
Been away for a few........
When framing overhangs w/ a plumb cut fascia and level soffit, I actually do cut the "jet" off after the roof is framed. I've found that even though I've always been pretty anal about pulling lines and bracing heavily before framing ceilings and roof, all it takes is a rain swollen piece of plywood or a double top plate with a split out of it to give the fascia line a jiggle in or out. Granted, with a 2x6 or 2x8 sub-fascia, I can tap it in or out to overcome small bumps,but I prefer to cut it off after, cause that's how I was taught:) The exception to the rule for me is stuff like eye dormers, and the like, because of the staging considerations,etc. (just a little less climbing around.)
I think in an application like yours, the small amount that the decorative tails might waver would be small enough to not worry about it ( as long as you're picky about stringing your walls, bracing etc.)
Read Dovetails post....agree w /most although while I do make a sample rafter and trace the top and heels, I've never been a big fan of the whole "gang-cutting" thing. Not a dig on DT at all, just haven't seen a method that I'd feel comfy with , at least with the tools and personnel currently in the stable.......
Bing
Just for clarification. I personally am not a fan of gang cutting either, I put that in there for those that are. I have heard all about the time saved, etc. etc. Tried it a time or two but was never as confident in the results as I am in piece cutting.
The biggest tricks to cutting rafters as far as I am concerned are crowning the stock , accurate layout, sharp pencils and accurate cutting.
You don't like gang cutting? But you get to use such cool tools :-)
I talked to Don Dunkely at JLC LIVE in Seattle this past November about roofcutting. Man that was cool. I've read his stuff so much and to meet him . . .
anyway, we were talking about gang cutting, accuracy, stacking etc. He said what I've been learning. Roofcutting ain't going to be perfect unless you recut here and there. Gang cutting isn't perfect for every job, and make sure you brace really really well.
The last roof I cut and stacked a few months ago, I didn't gang cut anything. It was a hip roof and it was pouring rain the entire time. I set up in the garage with birdsmouth/tail patterns and we just cut away. It goes quickly. http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=13480311&uid=2163851
But on roofs like this one http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/12448759/195441153.jpg it can't be beat or this one http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/7154567/111217542.jpg it was worth it. It is easy to organize it. I don't have better views which would show it better, but the thing about gang cutting a hip roof, is that you can make your birdsmouths right now, then you are still laying out from the plumb cut at the birdsmouth and making the plumb/cheek cuts with the same saw you'd use to cut one at a time.
Here is the roof in the racks http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9094915/128490704.jpg for this one http://pic40.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/9094915/129589162.jpg My old framing buddy Jasen cut that roof. Everything was right on layout except one jack, that one had a hip/val plumb cut on it :-)
BUT gang cutting is not for everyone and its not for me all the time. I wish I had learned from someone in person because hip roofs bend my mind when they are in the racks and upside down. I much prefer cutting gable roofs in the racks.
What I'm slowly learning and it seems everyone else knows this, is that when you get really proficient at something, switching to a different way isn't necessarily worth it. I have a pretty good system for cutting jacks one at a time getting 2 jacks out of every peice of stock and using a pattern for the birdsmouth/tail. On most of the jacks then the crown is cut out of the stock and the roof is nice and flat.
But for guys who cut roofs for a living and nothing else, gang cutting is a great way to stay organized and maximize efficiency.
What saw is your buddy using?
I cannot tell from the pic.
Ridgid 7 1/4" wormdrive
Big Foot w/swingtable
Stihl MS 361 w/headcutter
Ridgids just seem to be holding up for us better than Bosch, Skil or DeWalt.
The way I've always done it requires two passes on each rafter. Using a template, I trace the pattern on the tail. I then rough cut the design with a jigsaw, to within about an 1/8 inch of the mark. Then I clamp a pattern made from 1/4" stock to the underside, and finish with a router and a flush trim bit.
You'll need a nice beefy bit, and a heavy duty router.
I wouldn't say its "fast"......but the results are sure to please.
J D Reynolds
Home Improvements
How about stacking a few up, then cut them with a portaband?