I’m new to breaktime, but my wife has a new project in mind and I hope help is here. (I am a frequent flyer over at Knots).
We live in Las Vegas, NV and have a pool in the yard. My wife would like me to add a door from the pool into the Master Bath. Not a problem so far. She would like to have the door open directly into the shower stall. Now things get tricky for me. My questions:
Any suggestions on make model or type of door? I’m thinking a full glass (frosted) exterior metal frame door would work.
What do I do for the jambs and interior finishing? The shower has cheap ceramic tile that will probably go away during the project.
Thanks in advance for your sage advice.
Daddyman105, Maker of fine sawdust
Replies
When you say "full glass exterior metal frame door" I think of "storm door" and that may be a security issue. Your post doesn't state whether you will have to tear out brick, wood siding, cinder block, etc. Is there electrical that may be in the way?
Has the wife considered an outdoor showerhead near the house?
"Roger Staubach for President"
I hate to be negative but, If you are not an alcoholic now you will be one before you finish this project, sorry.
I build homes at the beach and we build enclosed outside showers on every house. This would be easier.
Oh I do not like this idea one bit.
Into the bathroom, sure. Directly into the shower? No way.
You are asking for trouble.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Her thinking makes sense...until you try to make it work...her way. She wants to go from wet bathing suit to post-shower fresh clothes without bringing pool water into the bathroom.
My first suggestion would be, do it the old fashioned way. Think of Ester Williams. Wear flip-flops and carry a big cotton robe and towel out to the pool. Put on the robe after swimming and wear it back into the house. No pool water, just a wet robe and towel which get hung up on the back of the bathroom door.
Forget the door into the master bath. It's a security risk, wastes AC energy, takes wall space, etc.
Second suggestion, get a lower maintenance wife.
When you said full glass exterior door I was thinking like a commercial door.
Aluminum frame with tempered glass. It would work.
But it would be cold when it gets cold outside. You could put a heater somewhere near the door if cold is a problem.
You could do the jam in tile with the aluminum stops attached to it.
It would be a lot of work though. But it could be done.
Where exactly inside the shower stall do you suggest this heater go?
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I'm not sure. Where do you think it should go? If you were putting one in.
As I was writing that answer safety alarm bells were going off in my head. Both the glass to the outside and a heater would have to be done properly.
It could be done. That's what he asked for.
It could be done.
I disagree.
That's what he asked for.
If only it were ask and ye shall receive.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I just don't understand why you seem to be shooting this idea down. He asked what kind of door to use.
Why don't you think it could be or should be done?
Why couldn't a heater be incorporated near the door for when it gets chilly?
This is in the idea stage. He's looking for ideas at this stage. Ideas on how it could be done. But ideas aren't a commitment to do them. Just ideas.
If only it were ask and ye shall recieve. What do you mean by that statement?
In my ever so humble opinion, placing an entry door within a shower stall is an invitation to disaster.
We go out of our way in attempts to protect a homes entryway from the elements. It seems illogical to me to now place one directly in the path of moisture.
I also think there is a huge difference between what can be done, and what should be done.
I do however like the idea of a bump out. Seperating the shower from the immediate outside.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
The difference between should and could is different for each person. I give him the benefit of the doubt when it come to if he should.
Again.....I disagree. Should and could do not relate to the individual performing the task....but rather the task itself.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I think Dino has the best idea going here. And to toss in my 2 cents on the heater, perhaps something like this would work for the OP
http://www.teakalook.com/prodDetail.cfm/11770
We used to have a similar set up at my university's pool near the diving boards. It was mounted on the ceiling above a bench so the divers could stay warm between rounds. Don't know if the one above is rated for a shower exposure, but with the amount of splashing that came off of the boards at times, there are certainly heaters out there that should be moisture/weather-resistant enough for the task.
I don't hear anybody shooting the idea down. As you say, it's in the idea stage. I'm just reading ideas, but along with those ideas comes the questions about fabricating the job. There ARE concerns that should be addressed right now--in the idea stage. The original poster posed a question. The replies have been thoughtful and maybe helpful."Roger Staubach for President"
As others have stated, doesn't sound like a great idea, but if you are going to go through with her wishes - I wonder how a fiberglass door with a vinyl jamb and trim would work?
This strikes me as a really bad idea that probably sounded good to your DW because she's thinking result and not process.
But she doesn't want to hear that. Betcha.
So let's see if we can give her some results and still keep the creeps in raincoats, rattlesnakes, and cold snaps outta the shower (unless that's what she actually wants, of course, in which case you have a different problem I'm not gonna get into here...).
You will need to build a transition area between the shower stall and the great outdoors. Think of an airlock in a spaceship or submarine: two mutually antagonistic environments cheek-by-jowl separated only by a thin barrier (the hull). You don't want one environment invading the other...but you want to be able to pass from one to the other. That's what your DH seems to be demanding.
So build her a small bump-out on the outside of the house wall, then bust through it and frame a R.O. to take a commercial frameless glass door. Use Durock for sheathing and subfloor and then tile it. That deals with the wet environment inside the shower.
To exit the bump out on the weather side, use a standard exterior door with all the usual security hardware and weatherstripping. That deals with the hostile outside world and all those things in it you don't want sharing the shower with your sweetie-pie.
To make her really happy, you might build in a bench and a nice hanging rack in the transition area so she can sit down to take off/put on her swimsuit and have a place to hang it when she's not filling it out....
Dinosaur
DON'T MISS THE FEST!
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
I was thinking the same thing--air-lock entry. You wrote it up better than I would have. Solves all sorts of problems and would be better in so many ways (than direct access to shower).
I have seen it done at a friends house, although it was designed into the original construction. The shower was on an outside wall (duh!) and on the other side was a small (10x10) garden area enclosed with 6 ft high masonry walls. Stucco I think, there were lots of foliage in there too. Anyway, he used an aluminum sliding patio door. Worked great.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I assume this is this an existing walk in shower.
You could use a fiberglass exterior full lite door, the kind with the blinds built in. They come with alluminium thresholds, use vinyl trim in the inside. I would hold it off the floor say 4 to 6 inches to propperly prepare for waterprooffing.
I have a 5'0 sliding glass door into my 42 x 60 shower from my hot tub deck. I had to drill the bottom track to drain water and it is a bit of an on-going cleaning issue with soap scum building up on the glass but not a big deal. No problems at all with fogging of the glass after 5 years. Same security issues as with any slider, need to put a stick in the track to feel secure but no big deal if you have a security system anyway and the crack heads generally find it easier to throw lawn furniture through the windows to gain access to the house.
Go for it, it's no big deal.
The bathroom was featured in Natural home magazine and you can see it on my website at http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com under the press section.
Have fun with it, the day after my wedding I was in the shower and watched an osprey sitting in a tree outside eating a large bass. That was an experiance worth all the hassle, I also like kayaking on the river behind the house while talking with my bride when she is in the shower. Just one of those benefits to living in the country.
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"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
Shelternerd
Spent a while at your web site (nice!), but could not find your shower. Give me a clue or 2 would you? Sure would like to see it.
Spent several years in the Mebane/Chapel Hill area, I miss it.
http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/index.php?id=naturalHome&t=Natural%20Home%20Features%20Chandler%20Design-Build is the link to the article but I see that the link to the blow up of the digital images is non-functioning. Here they are (and I'll get my web guy to fix that link) Basically the aluminum door fills the entire wall and the slate tile is cut right up against the aluminum frame so there is no interior trim. The door company voided their warrantee when they heard about the installation but we've had no problems with it and the inspectors were fine with it. We don't have any curtains as you can see, but we're at the top of a bluff overlooking a fairly in-accessible river so there is only one person other than me who fishes out there and you really can't see into the shower all that much from the river. ------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
When I read your post, I thought of adding a vestibule or mudroom type arrangement, much like Dino suggested.
Separating the exterior door from being the shower door will serve you better, and not make you crazy trying to execute an almost impossible request.
While not exactly what you asked for, it will give it to you in a way that is safe and realistic...buic
What type of hook is code for hanging a portable heater from a showerhead? Gfci breaker or arc fault?
What's the best caulk to use to repair a rip in the membrane?
Are the neighbors reliable? Will they call the building inspector?
Since they live in Nevada, the water that runs outta the house will help keep their landscaping alive.
An earlier post indicated this would be an "invitation for disaster"..... more like a plea for disaster, imho.
Edited 5/11/2007 3:29 pm ET by BZbuilder
This might work. I have a commercial, self closing, Kawneer store front type door on my shower (steam/shower). I saw it at a Hard Rock Hotel and had to have one when I remodeled our bath. It is great at keeping in the steam as it is designed to be an exterior door. The only problem I have encountered is that the threhold is mill finish aluminum and tarnishes in a few years. I changed all factory fasteners I could to stainless. It has been a good door and holds steam much better than anything I have seen. With careful waterproofing it could easily be used to open to the outside.
I think Azek or Koma (cellular pvc trim "wood) would work well for the trim, and possibly the jambs, if you went that route. But the ideas of Dinosaur and Shelternerd make more sense to me, as far as that's concerned. Azek is quite a bit floppier than real wood, so I'd make the jambs out of 5/4 stock and shim it well.
There's a company here in the bay area, Bonnelli enterprises, that specializes in high quality aluminum windows and doors. I think one of their doors would hold up well in this environment, and I'm pretty sure they make aluminum jambs for them too. They're typically painted with an automotive-look finish. Spendy, though.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
It's probably a bad idea from a construction standpoint, but why not let her put a bullet in it? Rent the original version of the movie "Psycho", then casually bring up that shower door project in the conversation afterwards.
Edited 5/12/2007 2:02 pm ET by TJK
Could you do a curbless shower design with tile throughout the bathroom and have the exterior door open into that? That would deal with any water on the floor issues.
I'm going to go with a combination of Dinosaur, and Buic's suggestions.
Build a bumpout on the house. 6 by 8 ?
Enclose with whatever door you want.
Put a shower in one end of the bumpout, and an -exterior- door to enter the bathroom, in the other end of the bumpout.
You are using exterior doors in the way they are supposed to be used. Everything gets built and sealed up exactly the way they would have, should have been, in the first place.
"Anything can be done." local inspector.
I like the store front door, if it's on the back of the house.
Let's here your take on some of these suggestions.
If you're going to change the tile, maybe you could make it work without a bump out.
Well, there's a lot of info missing and the OP hasn't come back with more.
How big? There's a big difference between doing this into, say, a 6x6 shower vs a 3x3. We need to know the privacy/security angles -- it the area we're opening into secure? And, while I have a general idea of the climate in Vegas, some more details would help picture things.
Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. After having the dear wife read over the posts, I think the project is off the table for now.
For those of you who had additional construction details questions, I'll try to answer them.
The exterior wall is 2X4 Stud with stucco exterior (standard Las Vegas beige). There is no plumbing or electrical in the wall.
The shower stall is about 40 X40 and I was thinking of using a 2-6 door.
While the wife didn't mention it yet, I'm sure this project would have involved enlarging the shower stall to about 40 X 80 with the door on the 40 side. She really likes the doorless shower designs and is willing to give up some floor space for it. Not a big deal as the room is at least 10x10.
This sounds to me like a project best left to professionals, so she has someone else to blame if all does not go well.
Once again, thanks. The quality and variety of advice on this board is every bit as good as I have becomes accustomed to over at Knots.
Daddyman 105, maker of fine sawdust
Well, heck, if she wants it doorless then that makes it a lot simpler. ;)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
36 posts and no one suggested radiant heat in the floor. Hmmmmm!
I got the impression that this was not a bathroom rehab.
Just adding a door to an existing shower.
Which is why I believe it is such a BAD idea.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
Actually my post, somewhere around #25 or so, had a link to http://www.chandlerdesignbuild.com/index.php?id=naturalHome&t=Natural%20Home%20Features%20Chandler%20Design-Build that did feature radiant heat in the walls of the shower with a 5' sliding glass door. I have never been happy with radiant heat in walls though the floor is much better. I run mine off my recirculating hot water system so there is no T-stat and it runs all summer as well as all winter. We have solar hot water so I don't sweat the BTUs. ------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
First things first, check with you local building department or consult the building code. This may not be acceptable to begin with.
your sage advice
No sage, nor rosemary, nor thyme for you. Like almost everyone else in the first page of responces--this is not a good deal as is.
There's a design issue SWMBO likely has not ciphered--that, suddenly, the master bath is the closest bathroom for all outdoor activities. So everybody with a full bladder gets to bluecher their way through "her" shower. Twice. means muddy footprints, grass clippings, animal droppings, whatever is in the yard and can ride a foot or shoe comes right in.
Ok, so a commercial glazed door could be used--just not well. You'd need a custom height to keep the water from running around it (and the seals on commercial doors really aren't meant for a shower). Mostly, it would be a real pain to try and lash together in the shower wall.
Which is why what I'd do is make a vestibule. Build out from the existing Bathroom. Ifit must be the shower, then do that. But, here's the rub of it, jest rebuild the shower to have two 'regular' shower doors. Done that way, you can have a "real" door to the patio. Might could have a "rinse off" shower, too.
Exterior Shower door revisited
I'm new to Breaktime and ended up here looking for ideas on how to make an exterior Door work directly into a shower.
I realize it's not a great idea (moisure issues, security, ect), but it's in my back patio behind a locking gate and also has a bit of appeal if coming in directly from the Beach.
The biggest reason is that I'm told that doing anything except "Like-to-Like" replacement of exterior doors and window is NOT allowed my our 'hillside ordinace' planning commission rules. Getting together and Elevation and plot plan for my home is out of the question for a simple bathroom addition in existing home sq footage.
My project is basically adding a bathroom into an existing space (slab floor, converted garage that had been previously permitted and changed to a workroom. I'm putting the bathroom in the corner or the room which has an existing exterior door ( the one that I have to keep as a door). This is the only space for my new bathroom and space constraints require that to be the corner with a shower (long narrow bathroom 4 feet wide). I want to replace the door with one that can handle the moisture and open directly into a large (48x48) tiled shower area. It's not an existing shower so I have some flexibily here and turns out I already have a fiberglass exterior door with tempered glass.
Here is a picture I found on the internet that is similar to my 'future' bathroom. Anyone out there that can help with how to do this .. door type, frame, how to seal, ect..
This is a link to the picture of what I want to do (it's the 3rd one down):
http://lifestyle-maker.blogspot.com/2010/07/innovative-aesthetic-luxury-bathrooms.html
You'll notice the curb under the door, and the resulting "step down". That's what you want, if you can possibly accomplish it. Doesn't need to be as high as that one, but 2-3 inches at least.