I spent an hour at the Home Despot last night trying to get my head around the exterior outlet boxes, covers, and lights. Can you help explain the installation process to me:
I have my exterior wall siding torn down to sheathing and need to install a wall outlet and a wall mounted (decorative) porch light. The siding will be hardiplank (~4-1/2 exposure). What boxes should I get? Do I install them flush with the sheathing, or stand proud to the face of siding? I assume I make a mounting block for the light box and/or outlet box?
If you have any products you like, could you let me know?
Thanks!
Replies
Use a single gang or double gang box for your outlet (make sure it's not set too close to a hose bib)nailed to a stud. The box itself does not have to be flush with the siding, but you will need to make sure that the external weather-resistant cover will seal to the siding. Since you know what the siding will be, you can place the box so that it is centered in the reveal of one of the siding boards. A tapered mounting block is a good idea for a nice clean installation.
A box mounted flush with the sheathing might require longer screws to mount the outlet and cover. There are adjustable boxes that allow you to make them flush with siding.
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-45-electrical-boxes-metal/one-gang-adjustable-metal-box-618008.aspx
http://electrical.hardwarestore.com/14-45-electrical-boxes-plastic/single-gang-adjust-a-box-wall-box-602042.aspx
The light needs a 4" round or octagon box. I think there may be adjustable ones, but I haven't seen them. Even if there aren't, it's easy enough to use longer screws for the mounting bracket of the light fixture. Again, your idea of making a tapered mounting block to correct for the angle of the siding is a nice touch.
>>The light needs a 4" round or octagon box.<<
Not necessarily, I just mounted two on standard rectangular wall boxes. Came supplied with those bar do-dads which span the box (hickey's?).
As usual the best thing the OP can do is have the fixture in hand before installing boxes - mine were in a masonry wall, the OP could use an adjustable steel box with a fairing block and end up with a very clean installation.
Could be done with a round / octagonal ---- but it is so easy with an adjustable.......just gotta get close when you hang the box -- round / octagonal -- need to be right on.....
Never seen an adjustable / octagonal box, but they might be available somewhere.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Not that this is going to be inspected or anything, but are there any code requirements for the box? Can I use plastic or metal? Can I use standard Romex into the boxes? I assume a GFCI for exterior outlets, right?I see there are a lot of single-out "horiztonal install" exterior outlet covers. Why install sideways? I assume so that the box doesn't span two clapboards or cut through two brick courses?
>>..any code requirements for the box?<<
Not that I am aware of unless it is fully exposed to the weather. Obviously, must have sufficient volume for the number of conductors / devices present - just like any other box.
>> Can I use plastic or metal?<<
I would use metal for structure / strength at least for the light; outlet - either one.
>>Can I use standard Romex into the boxes?<<
Yes, unless the cable passes through masonry.
>> I assume a GFCI for exterior outlets, right?<<
Correct, OR GFCI breaker at panel. Breaker will hold up longer as a general rule, but it is a royal PITA if you are outside and it trips. Worse is if the panel GFCI breaker trips on a tradesman when you are not at home and he suddenly has no power source.
>>I see there are a lot of single-out "horiztonal install" exterior outlet covers.<<
May or may not be legal in your area, my county requires the bubble type, "in-use", covers for all outside outlets. Next county over (different state) requires only a "weather tight" cover - the flat ones. Bubbles are ugly but practical.
>> Why install sideways? I assume so that the box doesn't span two clapboards or cut through two brick courses?<<
And you would be correct.
The hardest thing with a wall mounted, exterior light is getting the base of the light weatherproofed - fairing block, gasket if supplied, caulk bezel top edge with the bottom left open (drain).
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
OK. Got it all. Thanks for all the help!
It also needs to be weather resistant and tamperproof. OK if its not being inspected forget tamperproof (new code),but weather resistant is better plastic.
For the receptacle I would use an InBox.http://www.aifittings.com/whnew73.htmThey recess the receptacle and use a slide out cover. And since it only has to to cover the cord it only sticks out a small amount when in use and less when retracted.And they come in a number of flavors.http://www.aifittings.com/whnew74.htmAnd they make a bunch of stuff for lights also.http://www.aifittings.com/arliprod6.htmhttp://www.aifittings.com/whnew45.htm
http://www.aifittings.com/whnew13.htmYou will have to go to an electrical supply house for those.IIRC you are in the KC area.At one time Kornis had t he InBoxes. But I don't know which flavors.But they are located in Blue Springs, Lee's Summit, and Independence.Should be some suppliers that are closer to you. .
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Thank you, sir. That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll make some calls.
Do you think that single gang "adjusta-box" (that can be slid in and out of the mounting bracket) is sturdy enough to support an exterior light fixture?
Metal - yes. Unless the lights planned are huge.
Plastic - no.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"As usual the best thing the OP can do is have the fixture in hand before installing boxes"Every wall lamp or ceiling fixture sold in North America is made for a 4" box. With 4.5" siding reveal, he pretty much has to put the box in the middle of a plank.BruceT
>>he pretty much has to put the box in the middle of a plank.<<
True enough, but those bases sure do vary in size!
The pair of lamps I referred to earlier in this thread - outside in masonry wall - had bases which were roughly 8" tall x 4" wide.
Always nice to know before hand if possible.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Note that if you can get the fixture to sit flat on the planks with nothing falling off the edge then you don't need a block. True, teh fixture will be at a slight cant, but many (including myself) feel the blocks are ugly, plus they're another thing to leak.
Likely not possible with 4.5" exposure, but just thought I'd mention it.
I have almost the same question but my regards ruffing in boxes where vinyl siding will be used. Should the boxes be ruffed in flush with the sheathing ? I know they make some kind of trim kit for outlets . Sconces too?
Outlet box trims for vinyl assume the box face is flush with the sheathing. Outlet trim fits over the already installed box
The vinyl trims for an outside light will accommodate an octagonal box, surface mounted on the sheathing, underneath of the trim. Box depth = 1-1/2" or 1-5/8", trim fits right over it.
Both have a snap on trim ring which forms a j-track like groove into which the vinyl slides.
One has a trim ring which snaps inside of the frame, one has a trim ring which snaps outside of the frame --- can't remember which one takes which.
Builders Edge makes both. The light blocks come in several sizes - all the same depth, many colors to match or contrast vinyl siding.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
With vinyl you pretty much need a mounting block, both because the vinyl isn't a solid mounting surface and because the pitch is usually too short.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz