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Discussion Forum

exterior to upstairs apartment

cameraman | Posted in General Discussion on February 10, 2005 05:56am

The guy next door has constructed a new set of steps to an exterior entrance to an upstairs apartment. He obtained a permit from the city and I have some doubts that the construction meets code. <!—-><!—->

 <!—->

The step are an open stringer type, the handrails/balusters are ran horizontally, in excess of 4’’ apart, the steps are not covered with a roof, and the 4×4 post supporting the steps are just sitting on the blacktop, not set in the ground.<!—->

A building official from another municipality says these are violations, BOCA Code.<!—->

 <!—->

The reason for concern is that part of these steps overhangs our property via a easement this guy has to access this side of his house, long story short, don’t want to go there!!!<!—->

 I feel partially liable and if this is to be I want them constructed by code and safe.<!—->

 <!—->

We live in Davison, Michigan, Genesee County. Does anyone have any input on the code requirements in our area? This construction code is not in our ordinance book; the city has adopted the BOCA code, which I have no access to.<!—->

  <!—->

<!—->

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Replies

  1. UncleDunc | Feb 10, 2005 06:19pm | #1

    >> Does anyone have any input on the code requirements in our area?

    What happens if you ask the city building department? Do you burst into flames?

    1. cameraman | Feb 10, 2005 07:01pm | #3

      No, I don't burst into flames. I have asked the building dept. already and he gave me a "I think they are answer"  And I didn't want to get in between 2 building officials doing I know more that you game.  The building offical before our current one used to make all exterior steps have a roof, now which one is correct? I would like other's opinions to determin if I pursue this any further or not.  I value the comments here & I feel that they are very informative. That's why I post the question here. 

  2. User avater
    CapnMac | Feb 10, 2005 06:50pm | #2

    Is that the stair builder there, enjoying a 40 on his work?  (Had to ask <evil grin>).

    I just love the way they "unreversed" the steps there.  The single plank across the former landing is a nice touch.

    The cut off fomer stringers need something, though, like a flame paint job, maybe . . .

    Your best bet might be an attorney versed in property law (rather than try to fight the inertia of the BI department to come look at "non construction."  Typically, you cannot make any encroachment into another property, even in an easement, no matter at what altitude the encroachment occurs.

    This could be a big muddle, as if someone were to be on the staircase, and the staircase fails, the "fault" is on one property, but the "injury" is on yours.  That suggests you might want to visit with your insurance agent, too.

    Also, the "kind" of easement can make a difference.  If this is over your driveway (you said blacktop), the fire marshal may have some enforceable rules about access for fire equipment.  For utility easements, the utility trucks also have to have access.

    Hope that helps.

    Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
    1. cameraman | Feb 10, 2005 07:18pm | #4

      Been there, done that! Paid many $$$$$$ to atty, and still nowhere. Long story short....the city allowed the previous owner to do the split of this double lot  in 1997 just months before I purchased this house. This split the city allowed created this encroachment. The city claims no responsibility!! And the building official is also the tax asseor, and zoning administrator. And people wonder why I doubt the opinion of the building official????  Oh, I forgot to mention, we have a encroachment on the other side of our lot......same time , same people, same story.

      1. User avater
        CapnMac | Feb 10, 2005 08:46pm | #9

        Go talk to the Fire Marshal; as in call the number in the book, and make up an appointment at his convenience sort of meeting (which also creates a record).

        FM is likely to see what Eric & I saw, that one sideswipe by the pizza dude, the exterminator, a deliery van, whatever, will rip that sad excuse for a stair right off the building.  If FM is "well, they'd have to get it is fixed," remind him that with no access, it would be hard to answer a 911 call to the apartment.  Which ought to have the FM thinking about the fire fighter risk management seminar, etc., and then thinking what happens if the staircreature has a couple of his paramedics on it when it goes..

        FM in most juridictions has broad powers.  There is a down side that he could make them put a proper stair up to the upstairs apartment.  You might not have a driveway after that.

        If you are on good terms with your insurance agent, buy him lunch and see if he thinks this "overlap" would be something the legal department would like to take up with the neighbor's insurance company.

        Or, maybe some poor driver will do you a favor and clip that thing and drop it.  Odds are, it won't be built any better than it is now--but at least there'd be a chance . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)

    2. JAlden | Feb 10, 2005 07:40pm | #5

      Nice mullet on him also.

      That picture is classic.

      1. User avater
        EricPaulson | Feb 10, 2005 08:02pm | #6

        That pic is too dam funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Your kidding right??

        Someone gonna take out those post with their car..............probably him if he owns one..........that baby's gonna come crashing down!!

        Never pass muster here in NY. The BI would sticker tha crap out of that thing.

        I built sturdier tree huts when I was 6!

        Oh, man, that's funny.

        EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,

        With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.

        [email protected]

        1. cameraman | Feb 10, 2005 08:26pm | #8

          Eric,

          You want to know the real funny thing.....  that set of steps is located across the street from the city offices, police, court house. 2 blocks from the downtown, It's not like it's out in the boonies!

          1. ClaysWorld | Feb 10, 2005 08:47pm | #10

            Tell the truth dude it's not the stairs that are the problem. It's those fkn empty 40s coming through your windshield.
            But you should be careful, if you get it to where they have to cover it it will result in a triplex.
            I can bet the list is long,so start your documentation and start building the case that you want to prevail on.
            All skill and lots of patience.

          2. saulgood | Feb 12, 2005 11:46pm | #15

            >"Tell the truth dude it's not the stairs that are the problem" I think you're on to something, Clay. That picture is worth a thousand words. I'm guessing by the well timed photo of the gentleman on the stairs that he has a lot to do with the source of the dispute. As far as the "new set of steps" is concerned, it's only the bottom flight that has been rebuilt -and code or no, it appears to be the safest part of the whole thing! I'm guessing that this problem goes back a little farther than the building of these steps. Looking at the picture, I'm wondering if the new steps were built because the old ones were broken, or if it had more to do with the fact that they used to come down on OUTSIDER54's property. It seems to me that the only real problem with these stairs is the landing - and the fact that Joe Dirt still uses it as a tree house. The new stairs are actually steps in the right direction - if relations weren't so frayed between neighbors, one could point out that there no longer needs to be a landing - at least not one that extends over the line. I'm betting this has already occured to both parties, though, and following whatever led up to the moving of the stairs, I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Mullet hasn't actually made a point to hang out there more often. These wars can be so ugly...
            Unfortunately, if the guy got a permit, the new stairs have been inspected, and approved. The rest is grandfathered in, so the best thing to do is probably to try to make nice until the whole thing needs replacing - then refuse to let him on your property to rebuild. Just my opinion,
            Saul

          3. cameraman | Feb 13, 2005 05:23am | #16

            Saul,

            You pretty much summed it up. The new set of steps were an attempt to get them off our property. In the mean time we battle it out with atty/court, couldn't get judge you understand that he didn't need the landing. Now the guy is granted an easement around the post  that support the landing and the landing over hangs our property. And our atty is 3 grand richer! But the point of the post is the construction of the new steps. If any contractor in my area were to build step of this type would you have to put a roof over the steps? Could you use any open stringer type step? Could you use spacing on the hand rail that a kid could stick a head into? With the new steps being a majority of the steps would you have to bring the entire set of steps up to code?

            The city has not don't us right by allowing the split and creating the encroachment. But the real funny thing more than Joe Dirt throwing cigarette butts in my boat, beer can on our property, and obscene gestures to our customers,(I run a business out of our home).  I am a 20 year member of our city council, Chairman of our zoning board of appeals, and now the mayor of our city!

             And I can't get the city to take action on this. This house is across the street from city hall. Any one that knows this area, in the background of the photo is the m-15/m-21 intersection.

            Before Pushing this any farther I just wanted to know more about the construction code regarding the steps. I know our city ordinances inside and out, but not the  construction code. I don't need anymore legal advice, I have paid for enough. Don't need to know more about easements, zoning, planning,ect...I am sorry if I am short but I just missed my 9yr olds basketball game today because I was in an 8 hr city workshop today and I can't get the same city to enforce our codes. And we all know the building codes/ordinances are there to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the general public.

             

            Man I feel better already.....I think I will go kick the cat now.  thank you for listening

      2. User avater
        skyecore | Feb 10, 2005 08:25pm | #7

        yeah, there is a certain level of class assigned to a person who has 2 out of theese three: 1. a mullet
        2. a lether jacket
        3. a 40oz beer in the middle of the day.This guy is like 'King of the streets'______________________________________________

        --> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad

        1. tuffy | Feb 11, 2005 11:29am | #13

          You sure that's a guy? Because, well, um....Unless that's in Casper, Wyoming, in which case there aren't enough clues in that photo to exclusively determine gender or sexuality.

          1. User avater
            skyecore | Feb 12, 2005 03:36am | #14

            ohh good point.. sexy! <jk>______________________________________________

            --> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad

  3. arrowpov | Feb 11, 2005 12:18am | #11

    Usually you can't build a permanent structure in an easement. Has an inspector signed off on the permitted improvements to verify they are built to all applicable codes ?

    1. UncleDunc | Feb 11, 2005 01:20am | #12

      "Usually" is the key there. There are different kinds of easements. There's an office building in Bethesda, MD that straddles a pre-existing railroad. It's called the Air Rights Building.

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