Exterior trim – cellular PVC & wood
junkrobbins
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hi,
I’m removing the old aluminum siding from my house to reveal the original clapboard siding underneath. As expected, some of the detail of this 1890’s Victorian were lost when the siding was put up (siding installed in Jan. 1965 according to initials/date of the installers found on the back of a piece we took off). Also some of the wood trim is also in pretty rough shape and needs to be replaced, particularily the water table trim and some of the cornerboards. Other pieces look ok, and with some paint/TLC they should look o.k.. My question is will it look ‘odd’ if there is a mix of cellular PVC trimboards (i.e. Azek) and the original wood? I may attach a photo or two later to show some of the bad spots.
Thanks
Edited 3/16/2006 1:52 pm by junkrobbins
Replies
If they are all painted the same color, no one other than you will know the difference. BTW, congratulations on the re-emergence of your house.
The attached are a couple of photos of a Victorian porch I rebuilt last fall. The red details are wood, most of the white on the porch is Azek. On the front view, the railing on the right is original. (Although I'm trying to talk him out of it, the owner intends to sheath this aging Victorian lady in vinyl sometime in the near future. A lot of details will be lost to plastic, unfortunately.)
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I had my house trimmed out using Azek. I'm finding that the temp changes move this stuff around much more than expected. Do you have this issue as well? How did you attach all that stock?
I don't want to derail the thread but the info gathered my help the original post.
I use Azek pvc glue. And the stuff does move. For almost all of the Azek, I used two different sizes of white Headcote screws, trim head of about 1.5" long, and a larger head of about 2.5" (Actual dimensions may be different, I can't remember exactly. Too many screws, too little brain cells.) On the small pvc trim (the red detail above the stairs) I used SS finish nails shot from an 15 ga. finish gun. Caulking/puttying holes was accomplished using a made-for-pvc caulking sold at the lumber yard with the HeadCote screws and Azek glue.
I installed most of the stuff in the cold, So I cut them a bit short, anticipating growth as the sun warms up.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Thanks - the porch looks wonderful, hope the owner wises up and doesn't hide the house in vinyl. If so, I guess it will maybe make your work stand out even more eh? Azek has a smooth side and a 'wood grain' side right? Which side did you put out?
Thanks. The house is in desparate need of paint/repairs, but I believe he's intent on foregoing them and covering the place in plastic. A shame, too, as it has some truely ornate scroll-work on a second story balcony.
Actually, Azek has a matt finish on both sides. (I have a 2 foot square piece on the floor by my desk here, so there's no chance of getting it wrong.) So to answer your question, the matt side was installed 'out'.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Off topic some but how do you like the headcote screws? Have you used them with the countersink for decking, if so what material and what did you think.
thx
I love them, though the head diameter is non-standard, but since I'm not plugging any counterbore, it's not a problem. I use them exclusively on Azek, often countersinking, but sometimes not. On Azek, countersinking the Headcote isn't required, but I do it anyway for some reason, which eludes me. My only reservation wrt Headcote screws is that the paint in the drive recess (square hole) is removed during the process if driving the screw, so you have a somewhat noticable spot of stainless in a field of white.
I haven't used them on decks.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
thanks for the info
Nick--
Are the posts turned Azek? I'm thinking of turning som Azek balusters, but would like to hear experience in doing this...
Sorry for the hijack...This may help the original poster:
FWIW, I used Azek trim all over my 1881 home--window trim, water table, corbels, etc. Stable old-growth wood is very difficult obtain--and IMHO Azek makes a good substitution. Be careful about using dark colors. Also, on the west coast, Azek is only available iin "frontier" style--wood grain on one side, smooth on the other. You can, however, get 4X8 sheets in smooth on both sides.
Posts are wrapped.
I haven't tried turning Azek, and am not sure it's a good idea. It's not structural and I'd be afraid of it breaking while in the process of turning. Balusters can be flimsy, and centifugal force might cause bowing of the material which could lead to either breakage, or dislodging from the center spur/cup. And the static mess would be horrendous. I have to remove my watch when working with the stuff, otherwise the grit gets between the watch and my skin and rubs it till it bleeds. Compressed air shower is the only decent way to clean up after a day of working with it.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Here are a couple shots of the " re-emergence " of my house. The areas where the wood has been ripped off for the aluminum siding is one potential spot for Azek. The others are around the windows, as I'm debating removing the old wood trim and replacing, as it is rotted in some spots and has multiple coats of paint. My thoughts around the window trim would be to connect the trim together with pocket hole screws, and then screw to the house. Basically make a frame and attach. Any concerns here (i.e. will pocket screws not allow needed expansion, better method of trimming exterior windows).
Any good sources for the fish-scale siding up on the gable? Would you put wood back on, or another "new-age" product? I figure by the time I've messed around replacing the bottom rows of fishscale where the aluminum siding guys destroyed it, I'll have likely broken enough of the brittle old shingles that the whole lot will need to come off.
No worries to anyone else for hijacking the thread - all useful stuff.
Now that the siding is off, the big debate begins..... Should I remove the wood siding and replace with fiber cement? Should I get a PaintShaver and clean off the wood before painting.... Should I get another hobby besides this old house...
Edited 4/25/2006 10:53 pm by junkrobbins
"particularily the water table trim"
I fabbed some water table and window sills out of PVC. Cuts, shapes, and glues very nicely.
A big advantage here is that you can miter and preglue all of the corners before installation- very strong and monolithic. If you need an expansion joint, you can make a scarfjoint in the middle of the run.
Looks great. You will not be able to tell that it is not wood, except that there will be no joints to open up, split, and rot.
Not all of the material has a texture side. The Royal Moulding brand is smooth on both sides in most sizes.
OK, I bought some Azek last weekend and replaced some of the wood corner boards around the bay window. The old boards met at the corner, but were beveled such that a piece of 3/4" quarter round filled the gap where they met. I didn't follow that, instead I mitered the corner (2x22.5deg) so both cornerboards met, and omitted the quarter round. The boards are roughly 90" long (forget exactly), and I tacked up one side, applied the Azek glue to both of the mitered edges, and set the other side up and tacked it in place, pulling the corner tight and clamping in a couple spots. The joint seems tight, but then I had read a couple different threads on BT about how houses don't typically have mitered cornerboards because of the increased likelyhood they will open up. Am I asking for trouble?
Thanks,
"The joint seems tight, but then I had read a couple different threads on BT about how houses don't typically have mitered cornerboards because of the increased likelyhood they will open up. Am I asking for trouble?"
Probably not because the glue creates a chemical weld. This sort of application is big value added for PVC. Corners are often the weakest link with wood trim because of the end grain situation and expansion/contraction that opens them up.
BTW, very impressed with the original wood design with the quarter round. Never seen anything quite that creative.-The poster formerly known as csnow
I made column covers for a house using Koma (pvc) and mitred the corners. 3 yrs, no splits or opening up. Homowners couldn't be happier. In the shop now is a large wood storm that they want replaced with Koma. Not cheap but certainly durable.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
There's some pressure treated primed trim being imported from New Zealand and Chile, being distributed here in the PNW. About 2/3rds the cost of AZEK and it looks good.
Don't have the specifics in from of me. Sorry.
All these new "woods" have their place, not on my 175 year old house. But, that being said for the purist in me, if you use alternative products, use them consistency. Don't butt wood (real wood) with PVC. Different expansion and contraction co-efficient can cause problems and may cause disaster. So, if the fascia board needs to be replaced on part of the house continue to a natural breaking point with the new material like a corner, that way a gap is less noticeable. If water infiltration is a concern, always the case on the exterior, make sure any caulk that is used between unlike materials is flexible enough to handle the expansion & contraction. I wouldn't use PVC but Hardiboard or a composite material, they tend to be closer in expansion and contraction co-efficient. Good Luck! Keep us posted.