I’ve got a list as long as my arm of tasks I’d like to accomplish on my house prior to winter. Hopefully I have the energy. . . I have almost no experience working on home exteriors, so this is a learning process.
One thing I’d like to do is add some rake trim, and possibly some other exterior trim. There is a bewildering variety of materials out there. Pros, cons, cost – yikes!
Is there anything wrong with plain old softwood??? I thought that that 100% acrylic primer topcoated with a high quality acrylic exterior paint is supposed to last for years and years.
Replies
>> Is there anything wrong with plain old softwood??? <<
Yes - it rots - and particularly behind the scenes where water seeps in and at endgrain. This can happen rather quickly too.
That's not to say that softwood can't work well. That would be if it were all backprimed and painted and if every cut was well painted before the piece was installed, the job was well caulked with a high quality caulk, and the caulk and paint was well maintained over the years. I think the big stumbling block here is that just because a house isn't ready for a complete paint job most people think it doesn't need any attention. Then 90% of the smarter people, just haven't quite got around to it yet...
IMO it's better to seek out an affordable rot resistant material.
"Yes - it rots - and particularly behind the scenes where water seeps in and at endgrain. This can happen rather quickly too."
If it's seeping in, then you have bigger problems.
Here in the wet climate of BC, primed spruce is used more than anything else I've seen. I have come across plenty of rot. And also have found that trim has also held up extremely well most of the time. You described good methods for using a softwood trim. Here it is sold preprimed with a combed face, to give the front a rough texture. so it leaves minimal left to do. rather than prime my cuts I prefer to end coat my cuts with an exterior glue, which not only seals the cut but bonds it.
Homes where I have found rotted trim have been because of other issues, and it has actually been a blessing that the trim has rotted, because it having been the first visible sign of rot, has lead to opening things up and discovering that OH C rAP things are much worse behind. Having said that, things can and should be built so that it is not an issue to begin with. View Image View Image
Ditto.I'm not sure about the glue thing on the joints though. Fit the joints well and the paint will skin over it. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
habit View Image View Image
Yeah. I was under the impression that the entire surface area of the pieces, front back, ends and so on had to be primed.
What's the rest of your house look like? Age, style, exposed and sunny, or shaded and damp?
There's lots to be said for PVC and other composites but pine trim is perfectly fine in many applications. Preprimed material is readily available in all common dimensions. Regardless of what you choose, the key to success is a sharp pencil, accurate cuts, prepriming end cuts, and solid fastening with the right nails.
Proper flashing is also critical, not only to protect the trim, but to protect the building under the trim. Most rot situations are because moisture has seeped behind the trim. I work on plenty of 100-200 year old homes with original pine trim. As long as it sheds water, and is maintained, there is no reason it can't last for years.
Style? It has none. Check it out:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=102025.1
I'm thinking some trim along the rake would help my ugly duckling. My plan is to lap it over the siding, rather than get into cutting the siding and carefully butting it up against the trim.
Of course, I'll then have to match the shingles and best I can and lay some down over the new trim.
Often, there is a false rake board attached to the sheathing. I usually use a 2x6, others use 1x. The final rake board (the one that you see) is wider (e.g. a 1x8 in the case of a 2x6 false rake). If you didn't want to use a 1x8, you could go narrower, like a 2x4 or 1x4 false rake, then a 1x6 trim over that. This method creates a gap behind the rake where the siding is tucked. You could cut the siding back to the sheathing to attach a false rake. This cut doesn't have to be perfect since the rake trim will cover it. Of course, you have to extend your roofing out over this buildout but it will definitely add some character to the house.
"Often, there is a false rake board attached to the sheathing."
called nailer or sub fascia, also used on the horizantal fascia boards. View Image View Image
Well, I just pulled 90 year old white pine off my house. Bet you you aren't going to find much PVC trim, fiber cement, vinyl, etc. lasting 90 years. True the paint was peeling, but after 90 years, who can blame it. I was working on a new flat roof on a garage last week.
Having said that, I would use cedar. Holds paint better than pine.
I'm not so sure about Cedar holding paint better. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Actually, when I reread the OP, he says "softwood", which actually isn't a word that we carpenters use around here. I was basing my post on seeing paint peel off of pine. Perhaps there are other softwoods that are better, like spruce. Be interested to hear your reasoning.
Spruce is a softwood. The paint on my first house lasted a solid 15 years. Maybe more. It was #2 white pine. There was no back priming and no back painting. The original painting was done by my father in law who put a very nice prime coat on it. The tract painters in the neighborhood told him that his prime coat looked better than their finish coats. That was a true statement! He followed with a very nice finish coat. After three years in the new neighborhood, everyone else's exterior paint was fading, chalking, peeling and generally failing. My house looked like brand new. After ten years, most of the houses in the neighborhood were vinyl covered because they couldn't repaint and keep them looking sharp. Some had repainted three times. Mine still looked brand new. After 15 or more years, I decided to reside the house. Even though the exterior paint was holding up, it needed re-painting because the sheen had finally failed on the sun side of the house. I wrapped it all in alumuninum. I could have painted but I was making the house "maintenance free", which is desirable in that suburban neighborhood. There were two spots that had failed. As mentioned above, they were leak points at some critical spot where I had failed to maintain the caulk and paint. Water had entered a joint and started to bubble the paint. I could have maintained those areas with ten minutes work but had failed to do so. My bad.The point is: all exterior wood trim is protected by a membrane. Nowadays, the best choice is a high grade latex acrylic coating that skins over every surface and seals out the water. When two different surfaces butt, a flexible caulk, APPLIED AFTER THE FINISH COAT, will bridge the different materials and bind tightly to both surfaces. It will stretch as they expand and contract and maintain it's seal...if applied correctly in their proper sizes. Wood is an excellent choice for exterior finish and the proof is all over the world where some of it has been used for hundreds of years. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Well I'm not going to argue with that. Probably the key is keeping it up.I agree with you on the larger point of wood being an excellent siding choice. I was working on an existing garage last week. The house had been resided with maintenance free aluminum siding and the garage was sided with 1/2 x 6 cedar bevel siding. Likely the house had the same cedar under the aluminum. The paint was still in excellent shape on the cedar on the garage. The aluminum on the house was seriously chalked, and someone would have to spend some major time scrubbing the chalky surface off to get anything to stick. Point is that IMO people have been sold a bill of goods with "maintenance free" because they are afraid of repainting every 10 years. Yet how long are these "maintenance free" materials going to last?At one time I was in charge of maintenance at a camp out west. The place was built in the early 30's, and still had the original sidewall shakes. Restained a number of times, yet they still looked good. Yet people would come up to me and ask why we didn't reside with vinyl!!! I'd ask them if they really thought vinyl would still look good after 70 years, and they'd just shrug and say "I never thought of that." People have been sold a bill of goods.....
I'd use T-111 before I'd use vinyl......... I'd use cement block before I'd use vinyl.........I'd use old license plates and pounded out beer cans before I'd use vinyl.......
I agree. People have been hoodwinked by slick marketing materials. The paint that covers hardi plank will last the exact same time as the paint that covers wood. If someone is going to let the paint deteriorate and peeel and crack, then hardi will be a better choice. If they intend to have a nice looking, well maintained house, then wood will work for them as long as they live and maybe a few lifetimes beyond that. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
All my buildings.....main house/guest house/small shop/tool shed are completely covered in board and batt air dried white pine (aired dried supposedly makes a difference as to rot) They have been treated with an ageing process, (and now look very old and weathered) but nothing else.
I figured many of the barns around here have been wearing white pine siding for over a hundred years and still have little or no rotting problems........
keep it at least 18" off the dirt, make sure you have ample overhangs and it's as good as anything........
especially if your like me and absolutely hate plastic/vinyl etc.
What kind of ageing process? My house has bee covered in cedar bevel siding, some of it about 10 years old, some more recent, 3yrs. It is all over the map in terms of ageing, some areas where water spashes are black, some is quite fresh looking, wouldn't mind evening out the age a bit.
I also agree that there is no need for paint or stain. Just make sure everything is lapped so the water runs off. Vertical joints need caulk. Board and batten is a joke.
it's a product called Lifetime....valhalco.com.....made in Canada.You mix a packet with water and apply it with one of those pump applicators you use for grass & weed poison......takes about a year to look like ....(see picture)Board and batten a joke? How come.
I've been hoping someone would come along with some experience with the lifetime stuff. I built a shop/ garage last summer, b+b ( no joke :) ) and really need to get some finish on it this summer. It's actually weathering pretty slow,( eastern white pine, planed one side out) and a friend showed me some info downloaded from their website. Don't mean to hijack, but how do you like it? Cabin looks good, but tough to see in that pic up close. I was thinking of sikkens, although the expense doesn't thrill me. 36x26x14' ceiling height = lotsa finish. interested in your opinion of the valhalco stuff.....I guess Goldenshower doesn't like board and batten:)
Bing
I thought the stuff worked perfectly for what I wanted......a cabin that would take on the look of the trees and blend into the background.Since I have taken that picture (last year) it has darkened a bit more and now looks quite old. I'll send you a picture if I think about it later today.For the rustic look it is great........contemporary, not so great cause there is no way to adjust the ageing process. below is the before right after I finished applying the wp.......
No offence intended. I have thought for a while that it is a shame to use the same amount of wood, more or less to do board and batten when you could put it horizontal and lap it so that water cannot get into the joints. I guess there are always horizontal joints at the windows, doors, corners, scarf joints, and the chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So your b&b will probably last just as long as my bevel siding.
I think the aesthetics of having horizontal joints instead of vertical is more appealing too.
There I take it back. B&b is not a joke.
Just bustin chops, no offense taken, honest. I'm not a life long fan either, but over time it ( b+b ) has grown on me. Something about that rustic look, and the fact that the knots and checks actully add to the look, as opposed to making say, a clap job look like ####. Peace
Bing
Perhaps the clapboard jobs you are thinking of are not rustic eneough for the knots to look good. Pretty sure my house is that rustic.
Edited 4/24/2008 4:58 pm by GOLDENBOY
Very nice. I haven't seen a nice looking natural clap job for a long time. Seen too many left with nothing and turned black; look crappy. That, however, is a pretty place.
Try AZEK PVC. Takes paint, LRV > 55, and won't rot. #2 pine has knots which bleed and have trouble with paint.
Yeah, I'm going to go with Azek. I had this idea in my head that it was pricey, so I called around. It's not expensive, and I don't even need all that much of it anyway.I think it's weird that it can take paint well. I thought the big problem with wood was expansion and contraction, and the old brittle oil paints not moving with the wood. And the PVC moves more than wood!
Azek does move and when you install it, you have to take that into consideration. The big difference is that wood movement occurs with changes in the humidity and not nearly as much with changes in the temperature.
Whereas, cellular PVC trim (Azek, Koma, etc.) moves almost not at all with changes in humidity but does move with the temp. That's why dark colored paints have been frowned upon with Azek due to them absorbing too much energy from the sun and heating up causing problems.
An interesting side note to this is I read about a paint by Sherwin Williams that has a very high reflectance factor even in dark colors so you can if you choose paint it a dark color.
I replaced some door pillasters with Azek a few years ago and the paint still looks good.
I'm still a fan of alkyd primer.
I use "plain old softwood" and paint it well. I caulk it well too. It will last hundreds of years if maintained properly.
Maintaining an exterior means inspecting and repairing all caulk annually. It takes a few minutes to walk around and ten more to touch up the bad spots.
Of course that assumes that it was caulked properly in the first place.
Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I'll keep that in mind! But in this instance, I think I'll spring for the Azek. I don't need that much of it.