Replies

1. 
   Guest_ | Feb 28, 1999 07:00am | #1

   *

   A not-so-useful add-on detail is shown below, borrowed from the current TOH magazine (note complete lack of structural detail) (OK, half the reason for this post was 'cause I wanted to goof off with posting a picture):

   View Image

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 12:27am | #2

   *AndrewDo you really want an answer? Assuming you do just do it like the picture but add a whole wack of structural detail!! LOL

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 06:40am | #3

   *Tsk, tsk. The structural detail is there! It is labeled crown dentil molding and it is clearly holding the whole thing up! :)Rich Beckman

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   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 06:54am | #4

   *Nah, I think the picture is silly, I just wanted to make clear what I had in mind. Of course I can frame the extension; really I'm asking for detailing such as weather/bugproofing, aesthetic issues, etc.I love TOH too. Where else does the writer explain that a stringer is that "zigzag thing"? And a $20,000 shower (butm all they show is a picture of a window??)?

1. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 07:59am | #5

   *Andrew, You can make up dummy rafters and soffit lookouts with subfascia on the ground and stick it on the side of your house. It's done all the time in new construction. I mean, why do anything the easy way?Your cute picture does lack one little detail, and, I hope this post is not banished to the nether regions if I mention it. Don't forget the venting!And, what do you mean? A stringer's not called a zigzag thing?Hang 'em high, BB

2. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 09:12am | #6

   *We have no venting now & we'll have no venting then -- if i enclose the falsie as a unit separate from the house, how's it going to build up moisture? Especially as an eyebrow.Eventually I will rebuild the entire 2nd floor; because of the sharp turn in the stairwell, drywall can't make it upstairs & the former owners used some kind of glorified cardboard material instead, with open gaps between. the upstairs is literally a sieve, i don't know where to begin to do anything. the nice thing about helplessness is that you don't feel obligated to do anything at all.Please understand, i didn't draw the cute picture. I guess this project really -is- a no-brainer (no offense billy -- what's the bucksnort for anyway?).

3. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 06:38pm | #7

   *When should a sharp stairwell slow down quality construction?A neighbor was preparing to lay subflooring in his attic (it was open insulation). He's a really good guy, but his wife was concerned so she asked me to "help". He politely refused my offer, really wanting to do it himself. I went over a few weeks later to gather my kids who were playing and heard the sound of hammer meeting nail coming from above. His wife had a look of concern and asked me to take a peek. It was a jigsaw puzzle. To get them up the stairway he stated by cutting several 4'x8' sheets of 3/4 tg ply in half. After a few wall dings and a small nick in the newly hung wallpaper, they were cut into three 32" sections. He got the ply from the local yard which always delivers on a boom truck. Unfortunately, I asked the fatal question "Why didn't you just boom the full sheets through the gable-end window?"The sounds of silence, which was punctuated by the dreaded voice of the wife mumbling "I knew it!"So, andrew, I suppose you could get sheets of 1/4 bending drywall and snake them up the stairs! Back to your Q:The construction of the falsie doesn't seem to prevent too much of a problem, my biggest concern would be that I've seen a few of these, it's apparent that its an add-on due to the seam of the old and new sheathing telegraphing through shingles.Depending how far you want to take it, I'd consider stripping off the existing shingles enough to lay 36" of ice/shield over the new and lower section of the old roof. I'd first cut the old sheathing back so you could lay a new section of ply sheathing that would bridge the falsie and tie it to the rafters. You're in an old house, so it may be tough to match the sheathing thickness of the original construction.

4. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 07:48pm | #8

   *Pretty soon, you'll be Mongo the marriage counselor. At least he tried to do it... Our gable end vents are about 1' sq.; I'd have to disassemble one of the double hungs, then it's still a Q whether a boom truck could make it up the driveway. i was daydreaming of devising some sort of winch/elevator device with 2x4's and the old garage door opener to run stuff up the side of the building .. but that's for another day.Good idea re the sheathing. There have already been repairs, probably due to water damage, because i can see plywood at the edge of the roof. of course, whoever did the work didn't bother to use a bituminous membrane or flashing, so i will address all this at once. The continuous sheathing from falsie to roof will provide a strong attachment too -- nothing worse than sagging falsies. (OK, that's as far as I'm going to go with that!)Bigger problem is that the shingles won't match ... I can live with that. maybe i'll just spray the roof hot pink.

5. 
   Guest_ | Mar 01, 1999 09:34pm | #9

   *AndrewRegarding blending in the surface of the old and new; If you measure the difference in the old and new roof sheathing in advance, you can install your "falsie" to continue the 'plane' and shim up the underside of the new sheathing when it meets the old rafters, with 2x strips of ply to suit. I run into this kind of nonsense all the time when combining new framing (1.5x3.5) with old full size framing,(2x4) and newer,(1.5 x 3.75) size framing. . . sometimes encountering all three sizes on one reno. I keep a supply of ply offcuts of all thicknesses to rip up for this purpose. My wife refers to it as that "junkpile" .Also;did a big basement finishing job in a brand new townhose recently that had ai switchback stairwellso constricted that the owners couldn't even get any decent sized furniture down it (one can only wonder at the designer) Had to follow builders suggestion which was to pull up the carpet at one wall, rip an access hole in the floor sheathing, feed the d/wall etc., ( not furniture)down between the joists , and replace, all at owners expense of course. Maybe it's time to consider a larger gable end window??? You might consider using a new colour shingle for the "falsie" and border your whole roof with it. . . b make a statement. . . go for the edge!!i A shimming fool in Ontario, with a mono colour roof.-Patrick

6. 
   Guest_ | Mar 02, 1999 12:52am | #10

   *I am quite unpleasantly familiar with the difference between new and old framing lumber. I keep some of the old 2x4's around to reuse in certain cases. Anyway, they weigh about three times as much as new studs & it seems a shame to discard them. Old growth lumber is definitely good stuff -- I wonder why no one uses it today? ;)I suppose I could mount the eyebrow a little high to align the sheathing too. i would like to build a full-blown shed dormer in back ... eventually.Our modified 3/4 cape has the entrance on one side of the building. The stair has a sharp winding 90° one the last few steps. The killer is the low overhead clearance -- the header over the stairs plus the low doorway (at 5' 10" I can walk into it if I forget to lean back) mean no substantial furniture can go up there. Fortunately we have almost no substantial furniture... Unbelievable to find that in new construction ... there ought to be a Code rule, eh?Ideas for getting several thousand pounds of drywall and lumber to the 2nd floor? No space for a boom truck. I was thinking block & tackle -- but with drywall? Or maybe this arrangement (below), but how to rotate the drywall to slide inside? (I mostly don't want to spend three days rehabilitating dinged drywall.)View Image

7. 
   Guest_ | Mar 03, 1999 09:11am | #11

   *Andrew, my wife came up with my name, she says I rant a lot,and have a little willie. I hope this is more than you wanted to know, it's way more than I wanted to pass on. If you truly are an ombudsman,(let's hope that trull, as opposed to truly, doesn't apply) you should be able to rig somethng to make yourself feel better about the headheight. Pass a law for mandatory ducking in your district. Oherwise, get in the line with the rest of us slobs, and follow the rules. BB

8. 
   Guest_ | Mar 03, 1999 09:27am | #12

   *Li'l Williei "get in the line with the rest of us slobs, and follow the rules."Rules. . . no body said anythin' 'bout rules. . . where can I get a copy . . . just to be sure I'm breakin' my quota!!!i Bigger Willie

9. 
   Guest_ | Mar 04, 1999 12:48am | #13

   *Andrew, I'd cut a hole through the roof sheathing.It sounds like you are going to strip and re-roof anyway. If you don't intend to re-roof, just carefully remove the tabs, and save them. You probably can have that hole cut, in a mere twenty minutes, if you have to save the shingles.Of course, you still have to get the stuff up there.What size sheets are you thinking about?Blue

10. 
    Guest_ | Mar 04, 1999 01:39am | #14

    *Yes, Blue, it's the "up there" that I'm concerned about! I could also cut out a stud bay (the end wall isn't bearing, maybe add a window there later... Are you thinking of a wide hole, or a tall one? The roof -- I forget, but I think they are three layers of shingles up there. I bored a hole through it from inside a while back, disgusting mess. The most recent layer is just a couple of years old.I've cut so many holes in this house that my wife is talking about hiding the saw, especially after my cut-the-wrong pipe stunt yesterday (all's fine now).Regular 4x8 (12 seems too much to ask) sheets of drywall, sheathing, studs, what the heck. I'm not sure i could even get a 2x4 up our stairwell. If I get a boom truck up there, how big a hole would they expect?

11. 
    Guest_ | Mar 04, 1999 01:43am | #15

    *What do you call your wife?

12. 
    Guest_ | Mar 04, 1999 04:29am | #16

    *Yes m'am.

13. 
    Guest_ | Mar 05, 1999 09:09pm | #17

    *The boom trucks, that they use here send the stuff on edge. that would require a 49" hole (measured vertically, not on the incline) and it could be just one span. I'd probably cut a 6'x 13" hole to ease the process of uploading. Carefully remove the good layer of shingles, and cut the hole from the inside, cutting through the sheathing, and the remaining two layers of shingles. Make this cut 3/4" away from the two adjacent rafters, and you will probably end up with a 13" by 72" hole that the board (12 footers) will easily slide through. Scab a couple of 2x4 blocks on to renail the "patch" too. Replace the good shingles.If a boom truck isn't available, a "ladder" rack will get them to the top of a 16' ladder. It would be easier to maneauver them on the roof, through a hole, than through the gable end, unless a scaffold/platform was built. It might be easier to build a scaffold/platform and get them up using a "ladder rack".Blue"It's lonely at the top, but you eat better."

14. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 07:05am | #18

    *Patrick M. It's badges, we don't need no stinking badges. Don't try this ploy in contracting, unless, of course, you don't want any jobs. Or, do you work for the government?

15. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 08:12pm | #19

    *AndrewThe i booger-manis gettin' waaay tooo complicated. . . what ya wanna do is rent a pair of d/wall stilts ( maybe catch a pair at a yardsale 'cause they're sorta illegal these days) and afix a pair of roller skates (more stable than the inline types)to the bottoms. Having attached a pair ofi really big hinges(4" at least!!) to one side of your roof,(spacing optional- 1/3 points suggested) you take out yer handy chain saw ( you do have a chain saw dontcha. . . for plumbing roughins etc.,??) with the nail cutting blade, fire it up and skate around the perimeter of your building holding the chain saw at the appropriate angle, and slice your roof neatly (points given for neatness!!!) along the dotted line (if your roof didn't come with a dotted line you can find instructions atb http://www.dotted_line.not)Having been careful not to slice those i really big hinges,you can now attach the other flange to the top-o'-the-wall and with a handy length of lumber you will now be able to tilt yer roof up for any and all occasions. . . d/wall delivery, dwarf tossing, stargazing, ventilation (oops did I say the dreaded 'D' word. . .i never mind)Bleu. . . the word for the day is b KIS(S)i Running out of oxygen in snowy Ontario-Patrick

16. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 08:22pm | #20

    *Andrew,I've seen drywall go places no one thought it could fit until the first board slipped right through...remember it flexes.My drywall is always delivered right to the rooms of use!Jack : )

17. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 08:32pm | #21

    *I agree Patrick that keeping it simple is the buzzword.He's mentioned that he needs to invent a material hoist, how simple is that? Since the addition of the eaves is going to warrant a new roof, or a wacky patch job anyways, the whacking of a temp hole doesn't seem to be that complicated, except to those that aren't too proficient with tools. I'm assuming that he is. You've nixed my idea, but offered no solution. Maybe it's too complicated for you to offer a solution? I'd probably be leaning toward the installation of that full blown dormer, and the materials would be loaded through that cutout. Whacking holes where necessary,BlueTime flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.

18. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 08:52pm | #22

    *I guess it's time for another story.We were doing a 4000sf office on the 4th floor. We needed about 250 4x9 vinylboard. Our company owned a crane, so we had the fixed windowpane removed the day the board was delivered.Well, the drywall supplier showed up with 40 sheets backordered. We loaded all the sheets into the window and later that day the window guy shows up to re-install the window. I stopped him and explained that we would just temp it with ply, but he said that the boss "andy" had just old him to re-install it. Bewildered, I went and asked Andy how we were going to get the remaining sheets up (they were going to show up in a couple of days). He said we "would jusst carry them up the stairs".Both my partner and I laughed and politly informed him that Mike and I, were not going to be part of the "we" crowd!To make a long story made short, Andy and a laborer humped the 40 sheets up the winding stairwell (each floor was a 180 degree turn and it was a bending overhead ordeal!). It took them all day, and they seemed to be angry that we wouldn't help. The funny thing is, we both offered to recall the window guy, and our crane!I've got a lot more andy stories, he was our live entertainment!Ask me about andy's method for installing metal top plates sometime! Oh yeah, and also about his hair cut! How bout the hacksaw? And the pipe rack foundations? hahahahahah I'm still laffing! and it's been years! Blue"Laugh alone and the world thinks you're an idiot."

19. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 09:15pm | #23

    *Billy-BobYou kinda lost me on thati "badges, we don't need no stinking badges."thing but I do like the double negative. . . sorta reminds me of ol' Hoss Cartwright on Bonanza (am I dating myself?) when he used to tell Pa i "That don't make no never mind . . . " Rest assured that the only time I everi "work for the government" , aside from the odd repair job for the local Post Office, is for two or three months in those years when I'm waaay tooo sucessful at "wood-wacking" and end up having to pay #*^#@*# income taxes!!!

20. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 09:20pm | #24

    *BlueI did offer a solution in an earlier post. . . beforeyou came on board. . . the other was just in humour. . . you know??b Whacking flies when necessary-Patrick

21. 
    Guest_ | Mar 06, 1999 10:01pm | #25

    *Gentlemen. (Quick, who do I sound like?)Patrick, the chain saw is for trim work. I like the rustic look.B.E.D., the eyebrows I was going to affix to the band joist (where the rafters taper out now), no roof penetrations. Maybe I should just rip off the back roof and build the *&^% shed dormer and be done with it. (BTW, I thought about using a chain saw to relieve ourselves of the back roof, but wouldn't the asphalt shingles make a horrible mess of the saw?)Y'all seem unfamiliar with us congested semi-urban dwellers (semiburbs? nearburbs?). Here's a copy of our entire survey. Note small setbacks.The only vehicle-sized path to the back is through our yard to the left (goodbye rain drainage pipes) or a neighbor's yard (maybe at night? veerrrry quietly?) Overhanging the driveway is a majestic oak tree, plus a big maple on the street. When we had several tons of masonry pallets delivered, the boom truck could get no closer than the street -- no room to swing the boom in the driveway. Maybe lumberyard boom truck's are more sophisticated? ... my current idea is to cut hole in center of front roof, maneuver truck into front yard to load, then build third dormer to avoid a ridiculous-looking patch job.Well, don't let this wear our my welcome. Tell me how the build shutters before I wear you out.

22. 
    Guest_ | Mar 07, 1999 03:08am | #26

    *b Nike