Ever have a client whose eyes are bigger than their stomach…or desires are bigger than their wallets? I know, I know, all of them. What strategies do you employ to address this?
Had an obvious one of someone wanting 6000 sf and only after numerous hours of talking about their needs, property, plans. I KNOW they had seen discussions on costs that mentioned a 75-100/sf range. Later they fess up that their budget is really 120K. Then they didn’t want to pay for any of my time once I helped them understand they weren’t financially able to get the figures to match. Fine, lesson learned. No hourly work and find budget even more up front than I did before.
More typically, got a budget that’s tight and needs that might or might not fit into the budget. It will take a fair amount of work to twist and position and modify and squeeze and warp and fit everything into a package that stands a chance of having a builder price it within the client’s means. I’m pretty comfortable that I can get things as tight as possible within the limits of the structures I work with. But I don’t always know what $ a builder will put on it, and sometimes that’s a surprise.
From the client’s point of view, they don’t want to pay me for design work, if it is going to turn out they won’t be able to build what they want. From the builder’s pov, they won’t be able to price it out without some drawings from me. From my pov, I can’t afford to do concepts and plans to the point that clients can approve them and builders can price them, on the speculation that a builder who I might or might not know and who might or might not have even been selected when I start my work will price it within their budget.
So, who gives first? How do y’all handle this? I have successes out there, I have a fair bit of name-recognition in that building niche, and I can offer great references. But people are still concerned about putting money down prior to work that might or might not result in something that A) meets all their desires, and B) meets their budget. Especially in cases where it’s nip and tuck on the budget, and I pull out all my tricks for economical design, and we just won’t know if it’ll work till I’ve put in bunches of hours and a builder has invested bunches of hours quoting it, what’s SOP out there in the rectilinear world?
Replies
I can only speak from personal experience. I refuse to give an estimate to a sizable project without some type of drawings. This may cost me much work, but it hasnt hurt to this point. I have, however, been hurt in the past when final project turns into much more than originally discussed.
I admit, I try and be helpful in giving a perspective client as much of an idea as possible, but I include as many disclaimers as I can think of.
Take a bathroom remodel for example. The average cost of such a project usually runs between $10K-$15K. Ive done some for much more as well as a few for much less. If the client seems comfortable with this "ballpark" figure, I will continue with assisting them in planning of project. Guidance more than anything else, but it usually gets my foot in the door.
I tend to "read" the potentials as I go along. I have found that my gut is almost as good a barometer as a bounced check.
I dont know if this is any help or if Im just telling you what you already know. I intended the former.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Don't know that I can add anything that will help a lot. But I feel for ya. I think everyone in the building trades has dealt with this many time.
I'm at a great advantage here from living in a small town. I pretty much know who has money and who doesn't. So when someone brings in a plan I know they can't afford, I ask them: "Do you realize that you may be looking at a $XX0,000 house here ???" Sometimes they listen, sometimes they don't. If I think they're way out of their league, I try to spend as little time as possible on it.
You seem like a nice guy who wants to be helpful. (Much like I am) But you're trying to make a living from the use of your knowledge and experience. I still have the luxury of punching a time clock, and can charge the company for any time I spend on stuff. I think you're going to have to become more stingy about investing your time in something with no guarantee of a return.
Just tossing out an idea here, but maybe you could tell people that the initial consultation is free (Up to 2 hours or so), but you charge for time after that point? Or maybe give them a worksheet with a rough lot cost, a (High) cost per square foot, etc. That might scare off some of the tire kickers.
Hope you're able to figure something out...........
My car is like my Wife, if it ain't yours don't touch it
http://www.hiltonremodeling.com/
Cloud, you might want to check out Candi & Troy Hilton's web site above. Using their own modified version of "The Process", something I created a few years ago, they explain the remodeling process on their site and in person during the first sales meeting. They are very sharp people and you can even email Candi about how they handle the problem you posted. If I remember correctly, Candi is also the President of their local NARI association.
Thanks to all three so far. I look forward to hearing how others address it, or even if it comes up in their lives.
Boss, you're right, I try to help, and it pains me when I can't. And _especially_ when someone is emotionally committed to building a thin-shell, I want so badly for it to work for them so they don't have to revert to something else without the qualities they'd get from this. That becomes not just a loss for me and them, but for the whole industry segment.
On one project I used the "your project should cost in the xxxx-yyyy range" and built in some specific efficiencies to save a bunch of thousands of $$$, and when they ran it by some builders, the first two gave an off-the-cuff, "X sf is gonna run about $y" without allowing for any of the economies. Neither wanted to spend 10 or 20 or whatever hours working up a formal estimate. The bigger number scared the clients, who had been burned once before when building, and they abandoned the project rather than tie a builder to a specific number that reflected the project details rather than something generic. That was frustrating. One of the builders told me, "we always give a high rough number so that we can give a lower formal estimate." Well, here it backfired and the project was lost. I did get paid some, but still, I'd rather have the dome built.
When I deconstruct situations like this, I try to figure out the lessons to learn and what practices to institute to help protect all parties.
estimates or guestimates are free after which you pay for time to make up sketch or drawings . as to changes "if youve got the money ill get the time " I have used that one ever since getting stiffed 25 yrs ago . when it comes time to get your money they never deny being told . If HO is own GC try not to be last sub on site as last man gets the shaft often.
" I did get paid some, but still, I'd rather have the dome built. "
Your gonna hafta loose that desire. I think some people can smell it and will pump you dry.
Jim, for years, I spent hours providing "free estimates and drawings" thinking that was the way to making a sale. Perhaps it is for some, but it never paid for me.
I have found that you gotta ask. On that first meeting, I ask for a budget and if they have no idea, I offer some averages. "Remodeling" magazine prints yearly averages that I find to be helpful icy wallet breakers. In your case, Jim, you know what a dome costs. Add to the cost an unknown factor and throw it out there. The worst that can happen is that they are speechless and motion for you to leave.
I've also found it helpful to abandon optimism concerning what it's "really" gonna cost. At that first meeting, I keep it high yet point out it could go lower depending on the final design. Depending on what they choose.
Last, and most important, after consulting, imforming and offering some tablet, thumbnail drawings for an hour or three, I ask the prospects to hire me for design services. $2,500.00 min. As much as $9,000.00 Right there. If they want to think about it, fine. Call me. And at the top of the next meeting, they hire me or I walk. Actually, when they call for that second meeting, they tell me I'm hired and they have the retainer ready or there is no second meeting.
Case in point: Had a call yesterday from a lady who got my name from an electronics installer. The installer told the lady if see wanted the best, (blush), call this guy. So she calls me and wants to meet me today. And wants the product, (built-in funiture and alterations) with-in three weeks. Catch................she's about 40-50 miles away. I tell her I can achieve all her goals. Cool! And as a way of qualifing her, I tell her that the work described starts at $12,000.00 and up..................a bit of silence. She says, "oookayyy" I tell her that I want to give her a clear idea of what to expect so we don't waste each others time. She thanked me for my honesty.................and told me to meet her today at 4:00pm sharp.........
Most will hire you because of your knowledge, Jim. Make money from it! And by qualifing these folks up front, you will see more domes built.
Thanks. Mark. I'm finding this whole discussion by all those who've responded most useful.
off track
clicked on your profile
then your website
ended up at prosperobobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
Don't you know I own Prospero?
Actually, thanks! I didn't know it did that. It used to work. I had to go in just now and add http:// to the links, and now they work again. Got a bunch of new stuff on there, be/c I redid the site just a coupla weeks ago with a ton of new renderings and pictures from those who are in the middle of construction. I figure if I host their construction pix, people will come to my site and see the other stuff, too. Thanks, bobl.