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Face nail or screw wide hardwood floo…

| Posted in General Discussion on January 4, 2000 11:31am

*
Thinking of putting in some 4-6″ wide oak flooring in our new house. This would not be T&G. Therefore would require face nailing or screwing. My question would be which should I do? Would it be OK to face nail it with finish nails, or would that not secure it very well? Appreciate some advice.

Matt

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  1. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 01:09am | #1

    *
    If it were my floor, I'd screw and plug it. If you want the plugs to stand out, you can use a contrasting wood or prestain the plugs. One thing you should do, is to let the flooring sit in the room that it is to be installed in for a couple of weeks or so to acclimate to the temperature and humidity in the room.

    1. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 02:11am | #2

      *matt let the wood get used to your house...........I'm guessing that this is on plywood and not over slab(with sleepers) Personally I'ld have to go with the screws and plugs. Not seeing the wood or the job conditions I don't know how much the wood would cup.

      1. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 02:18am | #3

        *Matt, just a question. Why not use a tongue and grove?

        1. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 05:37am | #4

          *Several years ago I did the upstairs in my house with 4", 5", +6" boards that I screwed and plugged like jcallahan suggests. It looks and has held up fine. There are also old fashioned looking square headed nails available that would look a lot better than finish nails. There is no way you're gonna hide that many nails, so you might as well highlight them, same idea as using contrasting plugs. And I agree fully, about letting the wood acclimate - the longer, the better.- jb

          1. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 05:55am | #5

            *if you don't want to highlight the plugs, and the material is 3/4, turn it over and drill your plugs out of the backside near but not on the location of the screws. 3/8 plug cutter, drilled a good qtr deep and then break it out with a screwdriver. tho it is safer to use a drill press to cut plugs, i've not had a problem doing it free hand as long as you enter the wood with the drill motor running. orient the plug with the grain and tap it in with a block. it'll almost disappear when the floor is sanded. best of luck to ya.

          2. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 07:08am | #6

            *What happens with gaps and splitting if you screw it rather than nail (never having tried it?)

          3. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 07:22am | #7

            *Adrian, ideal situation would be to obtain stable, old growth or quartersawn flooring. Most of the old houses have gaps, and splits as age and character marks. I'd check out the Tremont Nail Company as a option for decorative nails, and possibly face nail the wide boards.

          4. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 07:26am | #8

            *Hopefully nothing ........ if the flooring has sat long enough to acclimate to the room temperature and humidity, the wood should be fairly stable,the gaps should be minimal and you should not have any splits from expansion/contraction and you should not have any splits from driving the screws if you predrill/countersink.

          5. Guest_ | Nov 10, 1999 05:27pm | #9

            *To give you guys a little more details....I'm thinking about non-t&g because my plan was to get some KD rough sawn oak and mill it myself. Thought I could save a little money and create my own floor. There are other parts of the house I plan to do t&g 3/4" oak (dining and kitchen rooms). But, I thought for the upstairs hall and loft I would try this other way (have some fun with it). Is the concensus that face nailing with a finish nail wouldn't hold up as well?It would be laid over a typical joist and subfloor.I planned to store it in the house for a few weeks to acclimate it, same as the t&g floor for the downstairs.I'm guessing it would be advisable to run the floor perpendicular to the joists and put the joints over the joists as well?Thanks for the pointers. Matt

          6. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 04:18am | #10

            *We're thinking of doing the same kind of installation (planks without tongue & groove) and I was wondering about using "finish screws" to get better holding power than finish nails or cut nails. These are slim, black screws with square-drive heads, and the hope is they will look like wrought nails once a bit of dirt gets to them. Anybody ever tried this, or have any ideas?Jay

          7. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 07:46am | #11

            *Just to give an alternate viewpoint on the decorative nails theory - we recently remodeled a house that all the oak floors had been nailed with decorative nails, with the heads proud of the surface. Personally, I can't imagine why you would want nail heads sticking up, but I can tell you it took several days labor and a lot of cursing to pull all those nails so the floor could be refinished. Not to mention having to fill all those holes.

          8. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 10:36am | #12

            *What's the style of your house? Is it a sterile, frigid, artistic contemporary? Or is it a charming, homey colonial that exudes warmth when you step in the front door? Somewhere in between?I wouldn't face nail with cut rosehead nails in a contemporary, etc.I agree w Nick regarding nailheads proud of the surface, especially if you're milling the lumber yourself. If so, you'll most likely be sanding the entire floor after it's installed. Go flush, or slightly set below flush. And, if you're going to facenail, price out "real" cut nails. The heads will look great, and though cut nails cost much more than standard wire finish nails, the additional cost may not be too significant considering the number you'll need.

          9. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 04:08pm | #13

            *Matt,If you are good enough to mill and straighten the lumber how about putting the t&g on yourself. I cant imagine you will save much in the long run. Do not forget you will have to straighted, cull, and cut off a lot of material. Can you tell if a piece of lumber is #1,2 or select in the rough. The big mills can use all three. You may have more pieces of cull than you know what to do with. They also burn or sell even their dust. Yours will probably be thrown away. They have reached an economy of scale. I will bet If you add in the wear on your machinery, electricity ect you will save next to nothing. At best you will be paying yourself pennies per hour. I dont mean to belittle your effort. I have just been there, done that.Rick Tuk

          10. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 05:13pm | #14

            *Mongo, The house will be a timberframe. It will be a Colonial (pretty traditional 9 window front, 2 story). I will be doing the downstairs t&g myself. I just thought for the upstairs I'd do something a little different. Since it will just be a loft and open hallway/bridge area that I'm doing upstairs, its a chance to try a something different and learn.Rick, The lumber mill I deal with grades their rough sawn just like they do their other milled lumber. Haven't decided whether to go with select or common(1), but am leaning towards the common grade because I do like some character in the wood. This is not green freshly sawn lumber. I realize there will be some warped, culled boards and that's why you calculate in an extra % when you buy. They carry nice lumber, so I won't be getting as much junk lumber as you suggest. Otherwise I wouldn't be dealing with them. I realize that some of the $$ savings will be negated with my time/labor, but not all.If I do take this approach, I'll probably do the cut nail way. The screw/plug way would look beautiful too, but there's a lot of work for me to do on the house and the former approach would probably go a little quicker.Thanks.

          11. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 06:58pm | #15

            *Ask at the mill if you can get one edge "straight line sawn". If they don't have a straight line saw, call around and find a millwork shop that does. It will be worth the money and time invested. - jb

          12. Guest_ | Nov 11, 1999 09:15pm | #16

            *George,Have you ever considered horseshoe nails instead. They come in virtually any size and look very similar to cut nails for flooring. Does anyone know of a difference in these nails which would make them not hold up as well. I would anticipate they are less expensive in bulk than cut nails if you can buddy up to a farrier. Just a thought. SWright

          13. Guest_ | Nov 12, 1999 12:48am | #17

            *thanks for the tip jb!Matt

          14. Guest_ | Nov 12, 1999 09:17am | #18

            *Matt, With it being your own place, you may want to plow ahead and mill your own wood, etc. It all depends on if you know what you're getting yourself into. Sounds like you already do.I think you'd probably derive great satisfaction by not only being able to say you installed the flooring yourself, but that you also turned a tree into the flooring.Sounds like a nice project. I'd recommend the cut nails over plugs (my personal preference). If you and your family can sacrifice the time, do it all yourself, from milling to applying the finish. You'll have something to be quite proud of when the job is completed.Good luck.

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