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face nailing Hardie?

JonE | Posted in General Discussion on August 31, 2009 10:53am

My entire house was sided in Hardieplank three years ago. It was installed over 1/4″ thick vertical furring strips spaced 16 o.c., and that was nailed on over 30 lb felt. The furring was for an airspace behind the siding for drainage.

It went on OK, but if you sight down the wall, it’s got more waves than the Hawaii surf. I’m going to be doing a garage later this fall, and would like to consider using the Hardie again, but not if it’s going to look like that again. I was considering using the Tyvek rain screen stuff (I dunno what it’s called – it’s somewhat light green in color and has surface grooves) and face nailing the Hardie to avoid the waves. Last time I used a Bostich coil siding nailer with 2″ ring shanks, this time would be the same. I really don’t care if I see nail heads, anything would look better than the Hardie on the house. I was almost to the point of tearing it all off and trying again, but decided that it wasn’t worth the effort. Maybe in 20 years I’ll consider it again.

So, any thoughts (aside from the actual mfr. instructions) on face nailing this stuff?

 

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  1. Brantley123 | Aug 31, 2009 11:36pm | #1

    I installed Hardiplank over 1/2" OSB over 16" o.c. stud construction, face nailed it in the overlap area (so you can't see the nail heads) with the same nails you mentioned.  I didn't have any waves.

    I think your issue comes from the "drainage" construction.  I don't see why you need that.  If installed properly, water will never get behind it.

  2. VMackey | Aug 31, 2009 11:41pm | #2

    Why facenail. The waves are most likely from nailing over 1/4" thick spacer instead of letting the material lie flat. Skip the furring strips and blind nail like everyone else. Vic

  3. frammer52 | Sep 01, 2009 12:57am | #3

    Jon, I see you live in Vermont.  Rain screen is probably not necessary in your state.  I live in upstate NY and have removed lots of old wood siding without the problems that rainscreen is supposed to stop.

    I sometimes wonder about the everybody must do it attitude about stopping a problem that may or may not actually be a problem where a person lives.

    The reason you have the waves is the unsupported back of the material.

    Use a min. of 15lb felt and run the siding right over the top!!

    1. JonE | Sep 01, 2009 01:03am | #4

      Well, that's kind of what I suspected - waves being a consequence of the method. I have fewer concerns about running it directly over felt on a garage, than I do on my house. The reason for the drainage design on the house is that it's over stress-skin panels, and replacing one of those if there's a rot problem, is a whole lot tougher than replacing a sheet of plywood sheathing. But, it looks like #### to me.

      Edited 8/31/2009 6:12 pm ET by JonE

      1. frammer52 | Sep 01, 2009 01:31am | #6

        You used stressed skin on the garage?

        Either way, I would not have bothered with the rain screen, as long as you had a good detail for flashing windows and doors.

  4. User avater
    Matt | Sep 01, 2009 01:23am | #5

    Wavey Hartie plank is not uncommon.   >> but if you sight down the wall, it's got more waves than the Hawaii surf. <<  Go look at some other cement board siding houses and give them the "sight down the wall" treatment.  I think you will often see the same.

    I'm assuming your rainscreen strips are made of wood?  If so, I don't think it is the rainscreen, I think it is more the nature of Hardie siding.  It is not very rigid.  I think that rainscreen wrap might make it worse since it won't actually give a firm nailing surface.  I don't think facenailing would help that much.

     

  5. shellbuilder | Sep 01, 2009 03:11am | #7

    JonE,
    I face nail every Hardie job. I also only used primed Hardie. I would nail the siding you have with a finish gun and see if that helps your wavy wall before you tear it down.

     

  6. fingersandtoes | Sep 01, 2009 03:26am | #8

    I see you have a couple of replies that recommend doing away with the furring strips to avoid the waves. All Hardi here is installed on furring strips and whether it waves or not seems to depend on the installer, as some does and some doesn't.

    The reason for the furring strips is not only to create a rainscreen. It is also to allow room for the wall cavity to breath to the outside. Tightly installed Hardi (which is what people aim for) does a very good job of creating a low perm surface. If your wall assembly depends on drying to the outside, this can create problems.

    I don't do large enough Hardi jobs for speed to be a big concern, so following advice I got here on BT I now use deck screws to blind fasten the boards. Nothing comes close to screws for snugging things tight and eliminating waves. For something as small as a garage I would consider it.

  7. Scott | Sep 01, 2009 06:33am | #9

    I don't yet understand what's causing the waves. I'm in the middle of siding our house with HP, blind nailed, but I'm not using furring strips. Nonetheless, I've got no waves. Are you leaving about 1/32" to 1/16" between planks for thermal expansion? How are you handling the joints? I'm putting a strip of 30 lb. felt behind.

    I face nail the odd one, due to surface imperfections, but in general they are 95% blind nailed without issue.

    Scott.

  8. MikeHennessy | Sep 01, 2009 02:36pm | #10

    It's not the nails -- it's the nailing surface. It's likely that if you had run a string across your nailing strips, you would have seen that they weren't flat across the wall. Welcome to the wonderful world of renovation! In cases of less-than-perfectly flat walls, you're gonna have to shim if you want Hardi without waves. Face nailing or blind nailing -- doesn't really matter. If the nailing surface fails the string test, you're gonna get "The Wave".

    Mike Hennessy
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Everything fits, until you put glue on it.

  9. ms | Sep 01, 2009 03:03pm | #11

    I've done a few projects in Southern VT and have had no problems. Most have been 16 o.c. studs with 1/2 ply and house wrap. I blind nail by hand with the specified roofing nails and use Harvey Bear Clips. These not only speed the job up, but give a uniform 1 1/4" lap, with consistent 4" exposure. Although not called for I leave a 1/16 to 1/8 gap between joints and when it meets corner boards, window and door trim. Even though the siding is inert, I figure the wall still expands and contracts with changes in weather.
    Mark

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