Getting ready to start the second floor addition. The entire house will get new siding, eaves, etc..
Wondering what the consensus is for fascias and rake boards. Should we use Azek or a similar product? I obviously want something I don’t have to paint often (if ever), but I also hate when trim coil is bent in 10′ sections and nailed up..It always looks to wavy and sloppy..I would like a straight, flat, maintenance free material that is available in long lengths..
Also, what is the better way to handle what we call here in NY call “pork-chops”? the triangles that are formed from the flat eaves to the pitched rake boards..
Thanks for the input..
Mike
Replies
Greetings m,
This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someones attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
We recently started using a pressure treated and primed wood material from New Zealand called Klear Choice. The wood is Radiata Pine; the treatment is LOSP. It's nice material with a good warrantee.
My brochure lists a website http://www.klcint.com, but, for whatever reason, I can't get it to come up.
It costs about 2/3rds of Azek.
A toll free # for the Oregon distributer is 866-552-4685.
It irks me to have to get a decent product offshore, especially with the raw material supply and production capacity here in the PNW, but that's the world today, I guess.
One of the yards here had samples of the stuff..looked pretty good..then again any 6" junk of wood looks good on the counter..
I'm glad to hear someone has used it with success...
Thanks
I used the Radiata (sp?) pine 2x10's as my facia and a couple of trim headers. Its been up a little over to 2 years and seems to be doing fine. I did find some finger joints in the 20'ers though, but they haven't opened up. I am in Ca., mild climate. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
azek is good if you like spending a lot of money and you like white
if you are going to paint it anyway, i'd recommend either GP PrimeTrim
or Miratec
they both love paint , cost less than pine or cedar.. are more rot resistant than redwood or cedar and come in two thicknesses and a multitude of widths
as for pork chops.. if you don't want to do a full return.. try some variations on the porkchop..
the first thing i do is never set the porkchop in the same plane as the rake.. rather, make the rake lap the porkchop.. it sheds water , you don't have to make a perfect joint, and it adds depth and shadow interest
if the rake is overhung, there are a lot of different things to do that add interest without a lot of work
Edited 2/11/2006 5:54 pm ET by MikeSmith
Mike, I just got back from Tx where they use azek and lp and whatever other pressed chipboard trim. I gotta tell you...it looks horrible!
A while back you told me that rs spruce is passe and I had to withold comment becauase I only knew what the real wood looked like. So I let you slide. Now, I'm not letting you slide.
That stuff that you are pushing has shrinkage issues and looks only slightly better than vinyl covered aluminum coil stock when installed. All the soffits with their perforations looked horrible. The soffits under the porches were hideous with their T style moldings.
I kinda think you guys are a bit hypocritical....complaining about vinyl siding, then putting that junk up.
What ever happened to giving the customers real wood?!!!
blue
texas !
oh well... anyways.. you must have been looking at some schlack job
you can screw up any trim you want to install.. wether it's real wood ( which rots off the house in 10 years around here if it's pine or spruce )
or Azek / Koma ( cellualr pvc )
or GP Prime trim / Miratech
GP Prime trim & Miratech have no more shrinkage issues than real wood.. less , as a matter of fact because their cellular structure is smaller.. so if the stuff you are looking at is GP PrimeTrim or Miratech looks bad , then you can only blame the installer
for decay resistance.. here's my choices:
redwood ( too soft , expensive, hard to paint)
cedar ( in clear .. has wild grain, expensive )
Boston Cedar which is a clear finger-joint.. used it a lot.. but don't like the finger-joints and don't like the price.. also .. it doesn't hold paint as well as the pressed woods ( GPPT / Miratech )
Azek & Koma ( cellular pvc ) does have expansion /contraction issues.. but you have to desing your trim joints around that.. but, it's expensive and only comes in white.. so you have to paint it.. which brings us right back to GPPT or Miratech
frankly , Jim.. you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to trim other that the trim you have used
but, hey, whadda i no ?
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Wow!
That's VERY nice Mike. Very nice.
Are those box/Yankee gutters or are they aluminum painted and built in?
My biggest issue with Azek and Koma is that they are not true dimension. If you use 5/4 for corner boards or window trim, and then do cedar shingles at 5 " they will stick out past the face. And it's lack of ANY rigidity at all turns me off.
Ericyourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
eric..
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the gutters are typical 5" aluminum painted to match
everything you see white is Azek except the rails, which are fiberglass
the green trim is GPPT, and the decking is Ipe"BTW.. the "pork chops " are lapped by the rake board
i have the same bendy issue as you with koma, azek & GPPT/Miratech.. so whenever we use it it is always solid backed
EG: any fascia also has a 2x sub-fasciaMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I'm curious how you treated/what it looks like re: the back side of the rake pork chop at the gutter end.
Nice work Mike. A bit of forethought goes a long way.
Thanks.yourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
hmmm.. my mistake.. the sunburst is cedar clapboard, painted
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the porkchop has some thickness to it. about 2"
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/11/2006 8:35 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 2/11/2006 8:37 pm ET by MikeSmith
Edited 2/11/2006 8:39 pm ET by MikeSmith
Thanks Mike, you're the best!
View Imageyourcontractor@aol.com
It's Never Too Late To Become What You Might Have Been
Mike, I started another thread about this but, if you don't mind I would like to ask this here in case you miss my other thread. What type of nailgun/nail combo( if any) do you use to nail your faschia-soffit with.I'm looking for the cleanest approach (for chaulk and paint ) but, will also hold up well. Alot of what we build (garages especially) never get gutters. Thanks, I always admire your attention to detail.
dug.. we always use Alcoa vinyl Pro-bead for our soffits it looks just like bead-board and comes in about 7 colors
for GPPT/Miratech fascia we use butt joints at our corners and bevel cuts for our running joints..
we face nail with 8d SS using a bostich siding coil nail ( we have a cn 63,64 & 66 )Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the info.
There's a (James) Hardie soffit material being used around here. It's fragile on the ground, but once it's up and painted, there's (little or) no expansion to crap out the paint like wood does. There's perforated for the eaves unless you want to ventilate some other way, in which case there's the solid as is used in the gable.
frankly , Jim.. you don't know what you are talking about when it comes to trim other that the trim you have used
Your right Mike, I don't know what I'm talking about but I do know what I like when I see it...and I didn't see one piece of man made fascia or soffit product that I'd buy.
I'm also not buying your comment about real wood rotting off in ten years. That only happens if the exterior skin (paint and caulk and flashings), is improperly done and improperly maintained. Perhaps things rot more quickly by you but around here rotting isn't an issue. I can drive by houses that I built as a young apprentice and the exterior looks as good as the day I installed them.
Real wood...that's the ticket!
blue
hey, blue.. we've got 12" of white stuff on the ground .. what the heck is it ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This post has been on my mind for a while now. There are some particulars benefits offered by wood vs hardi vs vinyl vs aluminum, but wood has some benefits that the other trim materials don't (imo)...
Wood shows signs of duress pretty quickly. I don't like the thought of soaked rafter tails being hidden by vinyl or aluminum. If there is a roof leak over a 100% wooden soffit/facia, you'll see the signs quickly as the paint begins to chip/crack. You can fix the leak and repair the damaged wood (replace or sand/prime/paint) more easily than other materials (except vinyl, perhaps).
Wood will last as long as moisture and the weathered surface is properly maintained.
Wood offers dam near infinite color choice over it's lifetime. Ain't so with vinyl or aluminum.
Wood can be installed by one person. Hardie soffit is a tough b*tch to manhandle with 4 hands.
Wood dust (so far) is pretty benign on the sinuses and lungs. Hardie dust gives me severe headaches for days ofter the install.
Everyone has environmental issues to manage (salt air, severe moisture, asian beetles, etc.) that must be considered, but over its lifetime of service/maintenance in the more normal environs, it's durn hard to beat wood in my book.
I'm with blue on this one.
Troy Sprout
Square, Level & Plumb Renovations
Mike..
I've read about the PrimeTrim, but have not seen it used yet...Thanks for the input..I will investigate it further..
The idea of the "porkchops" will be implemented...That will definitely do the trick..
The porch is gorgeous..that's the kind of design/construction that I truly appreciate..Attention to detail, scale, technique, etc..Really beautiful work...
Want to come do some work in New York???
Mike
are we going to see your project when we go to TipiFest ?
BTW: our lumberyard dropped GPPT in favor of Miratech.. so far i like the Miratech better
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 2/11/2006 9:58 pm ET by MikeSmith
Oh I'll be posting pics once the bldg dept says it's okay to get started (ie..Permit)
Small town beauracracy..you know how that goes..I submitted my paperwork in January..they estimate that if all goes well with the various boards/depts..I could see a permit as early as May..
So in the meantime, I'm getting all the subs and materials ready to go..so that I don't waste time during the actual construction..
Thanks for the input!!!
Mike