Hello:
I’m building a new garage for myself. As background info, I used attic trusses, with two dormers, one facing the front and one facing the back. The girder trusses on each side of these dormers bear directly on the header over the front 16′ overhead door, so the structural engineer I hired called out a steel I-beam with steel columns to support it.
I’ve got all that up now, but to finish the wall sheathing around the door opening, I need to fasten 2x6s around this opening so I’ve got something to nail the sheathing and trim to.
The columns are 4×4 square tubing, 1/4″ thick. The wall is a 2×6 wall with 1/2″ plywood sheathing. What’s the best way to fasten the 2x material to the column?
Brent
Replies
Google for powder actuated fasteners.
The column walls are 1/4" thick; I couldn't tell for sure in my brief look around at a few different web sites whether powder actuated fasteners would work with steel that thick.
Brent
If you use yellow or red colored loads with pins made for use in metal then they will work. But be sure to use adhesive because sometimes the pins don't work to good.
Cork in Chicago
No problem. Ebay's a good place to find used guns, like my .27 Hilti. Make sure you are using a pin intended for steel.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Yep. What those guys said. Nailing a 2 by to 1/4" steel is a textbook example of PAF technology. If you can find a Ramset or Hilti web page, there'll likely be a chart that tells you exactly what fastener and what powder load to use for that configuration.
Plus it's a very manly thing to do, tools AND guns. :o)
Hilti's latest guns have a dial up feature for selecting power level. Loads are all the same, but variable venting make the force driving the push rod adjustable.
BTW each PAD requires a certification card from the manufacturer or supplier of the device. That is somewhere in OSHA reg. 1910.269
Dave
Sounds exacty like what would work on my old oak logs..never thought of that..Duh...Palm nailer turns 16's into hog rings.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
>> Loads are all the same, but variable venting make the force driving the push rod adjustable.
I haven't been keeping up with the technology. That's a great idea if the adjustments are accurately repeatable, which I would expect them to be from Hilti. No more showing up at the site without the right loads. If you've got any at all, you've got the right ones. Thanks.
Yes they will if you get a large enough load. I have seen 2x material shot into the top of an I beam with the nail going right into the center flange of the beam!
Ramset or a Hilti...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
bubble gum an duck tape.
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Bubble gum?
Grand kids gonna be p.o.'d at ya!
Tie wire rules!
Duct tpe you say
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
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Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
Don't let him escape... I'll go get a case of tape and some lead weights.....
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Ligitimate reply now.
If it is a 4x4 colum cenetered in the wall, you need to use 1x on each side to get the 5 1/2 inches. If it is set flush to the inside, then the 2x can go on as suggested above.
An alternative would be counter sunk TEX screws and construction adhesive with a few clamps.
Dave
Not worth buying a powder actuated tool for this. Don't personally know if you can rent one because of possible liability issues. That said I have had to screw wood to the same type of columns in the past. Some of the time it was because glass was already in openings and shooting wood to the steel might have cracked or shattered the glass ( huge no no). Also had to do it at a Texas Instruments job where all powder actuated tools were prohibited.
Go to any descent hardware store and you should be able to get the correct screw. The specific type for this job has tiny little "wings" on two sides of the screw just past the drill point. The purpose of these is to slightly over drill the wood so the threads on the screw don't engage and grab the wood. Instead what happens is the wood is drilled out just slightly larger than the diameter of the screw, and then once the drill point on the screw finishes drilling out the steel and the threads on the screw start pulling the screw into the metal, the little wings (which are real light weight), just get sheared off by the metal, and the screw just keeps on pulling into the metal, and then when the head of the screw sinks down to the wood it sucks the wood up to the metal real good, instead of leaving a gap between the metal and wood.
This said you can also just use machine thread self tapping drill point screws just as well if you feel like predrilling the wood.
Make sure you use plenty heavy screws like #10-24 or there about. One screw every couple of feet will work fine.
A couple of quick tricks to make it a lot easier: Use clamps. Clamp the stud to the column and drill the screws in only part way, just enough to to score the metal column. Leave the screws in place in the stud and unclamp the stud. Now using good metal cutting drill bits make an approximately 1/8" pilot hole on each of the scored marks. Then put a heavy bead of adhesive (sub floor laminate or liquid nails), on the column or stud, then reclamp the stud back to the column in the same spot it was before (forgot to mention best way to do this is just make a single mark that hits both the stud and the column so when putting it back in same place real easy), then just drive the screws in the rest of the way.
This may sound a little complicated but it's not. Once you have the studs screwed and glued they ain't going nowhere.
The purpose of predilling the holes is to save time and a lot of elbow grease on getting the screws to penetrate the steel. Also make sure the screws are plenty long enough to have the drill point fully penetrate the steel and then have plenty of thread to grab the column.
Each time you drill make sure you have a clamp right next to where you are drilling to keep from having any gap between the stud and the column. Also super important when drilling and using self drilling screws in heavy metal-- keep the rpm's slow. Don't heat up the metal or the bits.
Cork in Chicago
I was also gona suggest self tapping screws. Saw some guys repairing a industrial garage door and they attatched a bracket to 1/4" thick angle iron with hex head self tapping screws and a cordless impact driver. Whent in like butter!
A #4 or a #5 TEK screw would do it. Predrill 1st and save yourself some effort... Add some PL400 to the equasion and it'll never go any where's..
Or use a NYC load in the ramset...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Around here, almost all the structural steel has threaded studs welded on for fastening wood. That's what I've done in the past and you don't have to worry about the pin not penetrating all the way or breaking screws as your driving.
Tony
And that's another approach. Even if the steel doesn't come from the fabricator that way, you can use a stud welder to add your own. The only thing I don't like about that approach is that if you need a flush surface on the wood, you have to counterbore for the washers and nuts that go on the studs.
Of course that might also be true for the Ramset solution.
A #5 TEK is rated for 1/2 steel. A #4 is for 3/8.
Any head configuration and lenghth is available you could desire. No special tooling. They'll even self countersink....
Simple... Over and done with now...
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Hilti also makes a threaded stud for thier guns. Been around for years. Shoot the stud in concrete or steel, slip the unistrut on, add washer and bolt,hang pipe, etc.
I have used mostly 1/4 x 20 x 1-2 1/2" studs, but they do a great job. They even make a fastener for hanging ceiling grid. A stud with an eye in the end of it.
I don't know how Hilti sales work now, but it use to be : buy $2000.00 worth of fasteners and charges and they would give you the gun. That figure has probably gone up in the last 10 years, but once you have the gun, you are committed to them.
Dave
but once you have the gun, you are committed to them.
My Hilti's old enough it doesn't take strip loads. Hilti quit offering pins and loads but it's no problem to find other pins and loads, even at Lowe's (concrete pins only and I have to take the loads out of the strips). Just bought a case of excellent steel pins that cost what Hilti formerly wanted for 1 box. I'll be shooting decking to bar joists.
I've never found any need for reds, much less purples. But without the dial-a-charge I do have to haul 2 colors. Not much of a problem. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Is it one of the old high velocity guns, or does it use the push rod to set the fastener?
I thought the old high veloicty PADs were outlawed almost every where by now. Those things always scared the sh!t out of me after a couple of near misses from overcharges and richocets. You couldn't beat them for steel work though..... a purple mammer jammer load, 1 3/4" pin, washer, and lean into that mutha.....never any doubt that 2x sucka was goona stay were you shot it.
Dave
Don't let the pros make you think you need to go get a PAF, you can have the job done in the time it would take to find one. . Your one time thing (I'll bet you have a 3/8 plug in reversible dirll) is custom made for the previous suggestions of drill and tap. 1/4 inch is thick for self tapping, so stick your 2 by up with drywall or flooring adhesive (hold it in place with duct tape even) ,drill 7/32 hole all the way thru wood and steel, follow by 1/4 inch thru just the wood, oil the tap and thread the steel and put in your bolts. 3 per 2 by should do it with the adhesive.
Any one have 32 loads for an old remington? I have a lot of pins and no loads . But that old 32 could set a pin.
Is it one of the old high velocity guns, or does it use the push rod to set the fastener?
It's old, not antique. DX 400B, .27, often offered on ebay, where I got mine ($45 with $150 worth of pins and loads). Uses a push rod, but it'll still give me a sore palm after awhile.
I've tried reds and found them too strong. Have a bunch of purple boxes I bought at auction that I have no idea what they'd be good for. 3/4" steel? I shoot 1/4" with yellows. Mostly I only shoot 2x's into concrete, with yellows.
Had a .32 caliber Remington briefly, until I couldn't find any loads for it. It was built like a tank. Scary.
Also have a good amount of Hilti non-strip .25 loads if anybody's interested.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
powder actuated tools are nice, but if you don't own one, and you just need to fasten 4 2xs to tube steel, then you just need some special screws and a standard screw gun. a local fastener supply place should have them ( i think i have seen them in Home Depot, but don't count on it ) someone mentioned them in an earlier post. they are 1/4-20 x 2 1/2" self-drilling flatheads for attaching wood to steel. they come with cutting wings for the wood predrill which break off when you hit the steel. they require a #3 phillips tip. you can throw a little construction adhesive on as well, but you really don't need it. to see the screws look here:
http://www.fastenal.com/shoponline/search/ItemDetails.asp?ProdID=38391
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