I’m looking at installing a mostly-decorative wood fence that will run between two trees. That is, the ends of the fence will be at the tree trunks. The trees are healthy and large pines (20″ diameter trunk). If I put the end fence posts near the trunk, I’m going to be trying to dig through major roots. So why not eliminate the last posts, and fasten the fence to the trees instead? I think that stainless steel lag bolts shouldn’t hurt the trees. I’d need some sort of sliding joint that will survive when the tree grows. Anybody tried this? Or have any advice for me?
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Replies
Jamie,
Your predictament got me thinking of how you could pull this off. Since the tree will grow upwards your idea of the lags is fine (they won't hurt the tree) as they can be repositioned on the trunk as needed. As for the dia of the tree increasing, you could mount the last 2-3 fence boards on a seperate top and lower rail which could be attached to the inside of the lower and upper fence rails (bottom of top rail & top of bottom rail )and slid back as the dia increases. You might have to adjust the last 2-3 boards a little so the spacing looks O.K but that wouldn't be a problem, hope this helps.
Your predictament got me thinking of how you could pull this off. Since the tree will grow upwards
My understanding is that as a tree grows, the top grows, but any given spot oin the trunk stays at the same height - but, as noted, the trunk gets wider.
FWIW, I think a fence terminating at and connected to a tree would look goofy - mut Martha Stewart I ain't!
_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Martha Stewart I ain't!
and that is a very good thing!
I think it could look kind of cool if it was done right, a typical 1x6 cedar fence may look a little odd attached to two trees, but something in a more "earthy" fashion has possibilitesNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.
Instead of a fence, how about a hedge?
Darrel --
Yeah, the more I think about this, the better I like the idea of a hedge. I'm sure I can devise a sliding joint between a fence and a tree, but it sure seems like I'm fighting with Mother Nature. More often than not, she wins. Now I just have to sell the homeowners on the hedge, and find them plants that will thrive under the pine trees.
Jamie
Jamie,
I did something like what you are trying. In order to have a straight fence line, the fence was going to have to "hit" one of several large trees. What I did was set a post about five feet from the tree (to give me a chance to miss major roots, which I did) and using a 10' rail the last section is cantilevered over to the tree. I cut these rails a few inches short of the tree so it will be a while before the tree grows into them. As for the pickets I scribed them to form to the tree and they are fairly loosely attached (I was thinking that the tree would push them loose before it grows around them. Nothing is attached to the tree and it is pretty solid.
Mike
Reviving this thread - the part about trees grow out - not up.
See attached
_______________________
Why Don't Blind People Like To Sky Dive?
Because it scares the bejabbers out of the dog
Your mileage may vary ....
Edited 9/12/2003 9:55:41 PM ET by Bob Walker
If you find plants that will thrive under pine trees, please let me know what works. Haven't had much success getting anything to grow under pines.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
Azaleas and Rhododendrons do fairly well around here in Oregon under pine and other needle producing trees:
from: http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/teletip/scripts/5107.htm
"Most azaleas and rhododendrons grow well in a cool, partially shaded location. They can suffer when grown in full sun and will produce few flowers when grown in heavy shade. An ideal place is beneath tall pine trees. Generally, they do best on the north and east sides of your home, where they will be protected from the hot afternoon sun."
Of course, Rhodies aren't necessarily the easiest things to grow, particularly outside the NW...
Both azaleas and rhodies grow great here, including under pines. Problem for the rhodies is that growth often isn't planned ahead and they out-grow the spot. Moving is pretty easy though, assuming a loader bucket.
The wild variety of rhododendrons grows plentifully here on north slopes. Wonderful flowers in the spring. This is a well shaded deciduous forest. And, given appropriate sun, not much won't grow here. Pines, for instance, have to have help.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
As one from a forestry background I can tell you that all of a trees upward growth occurs at the top of the tree. No new wood is added at the base of a tree over the years except the annual rings (diameter). Just a small correction to the last post.
As a long time surveyor, we used to put BM's (bench marks, points of known elevation) in large trees, both deciduous and non-deciduous. These elevations were generally to the hundreth (.01) of a foot.
I've used BM's that had been in trees for 75 years or more, and had not moved vertically any more than a few hundreths.
A tree grows upward and outward, but a point on the girdth near (6') of the ground should not move enough to affect a fence.
However, what if the tree dies? Then you gotta pull your fence down and cut the tree. Build around it.
As a long time surveyor, we used to put BM's (bench marks, points of known elevation) in large trees, both deciduous and non-deciduous.
I've done a few title searches in rural areas, where the old deeds saythings like: "In a southerly direction, more or less, from Grandfather's oak past the root cellar to the fork in the road."_______________________
10 .... I have laid the foundation like an expert builder. Now others are building on it. But whoever is building on this foundation must be very careful.
11 For no one can lay any other foundation than the one we already have--Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:10-11
Have numerous fixtures and attachments to Fir and Cedar in yard, used 30d or bigger galv nails driven in only an inch or so, some have been there 30 years and no problems, have had to pull some out a few inches every decade on faster growing trees.
I was just going to add that one problem with fastners in tree trucks is that the tree grows around them. However, if you use a spike through a fence rail it is possible that the growth of the tree would slowly push on the rail and as such pull the nail out along with the rail. Or it might hold fast and the trunk will grow around the rail. With lag bolts the later is almost assured.
Lastly, I also think it would look goofy or tacky.
Here in my area, it is very common for older fences to have been attached to the scrub oaks in the area. The fences on my property are about 40 years old and the oak trees and bark now have swalled the fence wire. I assume these wires were stapled to the tree, but the staples cannot be seen under the bark, only the ends of the wires jutting out from the tree.
Exactly. and now cut the tree down and make a board out of it. Good luck. Hell on plainer knives too.
You missed that he said scrub oak. You don't cut scrub oak into boards (at least I've never heard of it). In my area there are more oak "trees" than any other plant specie. Most of them are about waist high. The very biggest (pruned and tended) are maybe 14" diameter with the top of the tree maybe 20' off the ground.Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I know, I was speaking in generalities. A lot of people don't like metal fastners in trees.
'round here, the loggers say there is a special place in hell for those that attach metal nails / screws to tree trunks.
Think about the safety aspects to future loggers or tree trimming people. As others have said, the metal ends up being buried by the bark over time.
I think you have to realize that the trees do grow in diameter, and your solution should factor this into account. Maybe canterleaving the rails toward the tree, where they can be trimmed as the tree grows?
If you decide to faster to the trunk after all, think about using wooden pegs are something else chainsaw-friendly.
I dealt with something similar when my boys were younger. I built them a three story tree house that sat on two trees. Both trees were firs and I knew that not only would they grow, but in a storm they sway a BIG amount.
Due to my tree hugger neighbor (who owned the property I built the tree house on), I wasn't allowed to use galvanized nails (might hurt the tree). I used long common nails to attach a pair of cross members to both trees, then I attached the tree house floors to only the bigger tree with the joists sitting across the cross members on the other tree, but not fastened down. When the wind blew, the joists just slid back and forth on the smaller set of nailed on cross members. After 5 years the top of the cross members that were slid on had worn down about 3/8"!
Maybe you could bolt or nail cross pieces to your trees and set the end of the fence rails on them without being nailed. Maybe you could just put a loose circle of wire around the tree to keep the last fence panels from being blown off the cross pieces.
No damage ever seemed to come to the trees that I put long common nails into and they didn't pull out at all.
Do your own thing! (Ignore the taste police here who want to tell you what's tastefull, even though they have no idea where you live or how much land you have, etc.)
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.