I an installing some windows and a door in a room made of concrete block. I have had trouble with the blue tap-con screws breaking. I have also had trouble with remington .22 driver. My first question is, should either or both of these be driven into the block or the mortar? Are ther any other ways to fasten to concrete block?
Thank you in advance for your help. Brad
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Replies
there is a bit rated / sized for block... another for concrete... use the correct one...
into the motar is easier but doesn'y hpld as well...
the .22 will spawl the block and you don't get holding powe...
BTW... make sure yur hole is clean and plenty deep.. the target grip range is 1" to 1-3/4"MAX...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 8/26/2006 8:03 am by IMERC
thank you for your input.
any other ideas on fastening into block walls?
Hilti togglers...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I agree with IMERC about the .22 blanks firing nails--they spall the blocks. We had siding installed and I went out to see how it was going and the installers had spalled several blocks and the furring strips weren't holding, but they were still using the power nailer. I made them stop. Construction adhesive and a few nails or Tapcons to hold it may work. As someone else said, toggle bolts would work. There are also expansion shielded screws.
You have to hit the mortar joints, block will just break. Your tapcon holes have to be clean and the correct size, a little screw lube helps and don't force them. A good clutch setting on the driver helps. With powder actuated fasteners, you need the correct size nails and the right power load or gun setting. We used to hand nail with hardened masonry nails in the old days. You have to hit them just right with the hammer. You are bound to have a few fasteners that don't grab with any choice.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
If you are willing to give tapcons another try - here are some useful tips that I've learned from this forum after breaking many a screw...
- the tapcon box tells you what size pilot hole you need - that part is easy.
- drill the pilot holes deeper than necessary - the screws are almost certainly shearing off for one reason: half of the cement dust is sitting at the bottom of your pilot hole. When the tapcon is driven into the hole, it bottoms out before you think it should and it will shear off just about every time.
Drill deeper, and suck out the pilot hole dust by placing the shop vac hose flat over the pilot hole. Drive the tapcons slowly and you will be just fine.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
should the tap-cons go into the mortar or the block?
Block..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's a good question...
I try to aim for the block (though brick is what I'm normally dealing with) - the mortar won't likely be as strong. Then again, I guess it depends on where you are drilling into the cinder block - a thin walled section of the block won't give the screw too much holding power.
I'd say aim for a thicker section of the block, maybe just above or below the mortar lines.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
and cinder blocks are made from cinders.
cinder blocks were better suited for chimney construction than for foundation walls. often when cinder blocks become wet they deteriorate and crumble.
carpenter in transition
<<cinder blocks are made of cinder - not concrete>>
sorry about that, old habits die hard.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Your Friendly Neighborhood Moderator
Edited 8/27/2006 8:44 pm ET by JFink
have used tapcons and expansion shields by predrilling the holes. But like others have said, get the right drill bit. Going through the block should be no problem.
If you buy a box of Tap-Cons the bit comes with them. Like other posts said the hole must be deeper than the length of the screw. Luck.
Generally the bit that comes with the screws is for concrete...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
The bit that comes with Tap-Cons is for masonry, by the way concrete blocks are concrete!
that's comparing apples to oranges..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Edited 8/26/2006 8:04 am by IMERC
I dont use the tapcon bits , I found you can get a bosch bit the same size for about the same money and it last a lot longer seems to cut quicker to
Agree to a certain point, with the Tapcon bit you have to have a Tapcon installation kit, but if you are installing a lot of them the bit comes in the box. I do the same thing that you do when the original bit wears out or is lost; buy a sds shank bit for a hammer drill. "May the force be with you".
tapcons are usually a good choice for concrete block
maybe the tapcon you are using is too long
are you installing a 2x sub jamb in the masonry opening ?
you can always use sleeve anchors. they work extremely well but just take a little longer to install. the most common type is a stud type sleeve with a hex head. they are also available as flat heads if the hex head would get in the way.
http://www.concretefasteners.com/anchors-fasteners/sleeve/pricing.aspx
carpenter in transition
We just installed windows and doors in a CMU room/basement/bathroom/whatever-it-was. We have a special Hilti rotohammer. When using that tool, with Hilti bit and Hilti tapcons, it was no problem. When predrilled, we angled away from the window and into the block or mortar, where ever it landed. When we angled, we were fine. When we didn't (only took once), a piece of the wall came off.
Young, poor, and eager to learn