I had the bricklayers build a set of steps yesterday – 2 steps, 3 risers, 9′ wide. I thought there was not going to be a handrail on the steps, but at the end of the day I was told that I had to have one for aesthetic reasons. If I had of known that a handrail was going to be required, I would have had them build the steps 4″ narrower on each side so the 4×4 newel posts could be fastened to the side of the steps… I can’t simply move the railings out 4″ because then they won’t align with the porch columns at the top of the steps.
So, I will need to fasten the 2 wooden newel post to the top of a brick step – the bottom step – for the inclined handrail. The brick layers are still working on site today and tomorrow so I could have them modify the bottom step in some way to accept the newel posts but I just can’t see imbedding the wood in the masonry as being any kind of a good idea… Maybe imbed an anchor bolt? I can’t see that as producing a very stable connection.
Having lots of hindsight at this point… Anyone got some quick ideas, pics, or whatever??? I’m kinda desperate here…
Maybe some kind of valloute? (sp?) Never done that on exterior steps… That would allow fastening to side of masonry as normal. The railings are to be made of painted KDAT PT lumber. A stair handrail would normally be a 2×4 with routed edges.
Edited 5/16/2008 7:14 am ET by Matt
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How bout wrought iron style? They have bolt flange integral
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I thought about the wrought iron look today, but it's not consistent with the style I'm going for. Also It would be more expensive than the wood railings I'm planning. There will be about 32' of railing. I know a guy who does that stuff and he is about $40 a ft. Thanks for the thought though.
Edited 5/16/2008 9:04 pm ET by Matt
I'll have ya a pic tonite, today I am installing an Ipe rail w/4x4 posts on a concrete stoop.
I found post bases at Lowes in the simpson area, look down on the floor , to the right..( They are in all three Lowes I was in recently, same location) They are GREEN and consist of a 1/4" thick 6x6 plate and have a 4x4 collar about 6'' tall to set the post into.
I will have to wrap them with Ipe 1x6 and mabey a moulding at the junction of 1x6 to post, but by anchoring these to the stoop and the starting newel buried, I can make a stout rail.
I paid 15 bucks for two, but the checkout girl may have messed up, I had them in the box they came in, and she scanned it instead of each one.
Gonnna tapcon into the concrete, you may want lead anchors or th like.
EDIT: I just dug them out, they are USP Structural Connecters Item BD. And the are 2 for 15.97$ OK for treated wood.
Edit2: I just pulled up the site, the BD (Bolt down) is not shown, so maybe they be disc. I think I'll hit lowes and get the rest! I encounter this stuff way too often, find "Just the ticket" and then POOF, they be gone..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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Edited 5/16/2008 8:55 am ET by Sphere
Edited 5/16/2008 9:06 am ET by Sphere
That sounds like it might be the ticket... I'll check at Lowes tomorrow. I think I've seen something like that there... One thing I missed... You said >> the starting newel buried << - you mean burried in the bracket?
Edited 5/16/2008 8:50 pm ET by Matt
sorry, no. on my job the starting newel is in the ground, and the rail angles up to a porch.
I didn't get there today, drizzel and other plans popped up.
BUT,, I DID get to Lowes and bought 3 more pairs ( at 32.00 a pr) for just in case the truely are disc. If you cant locate them local, I send em to ya. There is one more pr. at this lowes near me.
I also snagged the last of some simpson HDG 3" big honking screws 14.00$ for 50..again soon to be discontinued. Thats my third box I found. Hex Washer head, like a tapcon, but dipped galv.
Lemme know if you need these post bases or want a pic. not installed.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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>> I found post bases at Lowes in the Simpson area, look down on the floor , to the right..( They are in all three Lowes I was in recently, same location) They are GREEN and consist of a 1/4" thick 6x6 plate and have a 4x4 collar about 6'' tall to set the post into. <<
No luck finding those... looked at both Lowes and HD. I thought that was gonna be my ticket...
Looking at the Simpson catalog I found this EZ post base that might work, although I'm still concerned about drilling in the brick and getting a firm connection, especially since 2 of the drilled holes would need to be very near the edge of the step.
EDIT: I just saw your second post. Can you please post a pic of the bases you have? I too went and looked at the USP catalog online and didn't find anything. My building supply salesmen can get me most anything, but if something is discontinued that obviously won't work...
Edited 5/18/2008 8:17 am ET by Matt
Ah HA! That is very close to what I have. The mounting plate is changed is all I see different.
Same green color even.
I'd go for it, or I can send ya box..How many ya need?
EDIT: Just saw your edit.
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Edited 5/18/2008 8:20 am ET by Sphere
Dig a big hole off the end of the steps, install an appropriate anchor and fill with concrete. Attach the newell to that. Or use decorative iron for the structural portion and cap with the handrail of choice.
Have the masons remove the end bricks from the last step. Drill a large hole in - wait, I'm assuming the brick is being placed on a concrete step base - set the steel post in hydraulic cement and recut and set the brick around the post. Wrap the post if you want.
When I put in steps that will have wrought iron rails, mason sets an empty coke can in the pour to creat a position for the post which is then anchored in with hydraulic cement.
That sounds like an option too... there is a concrete footer but it was placed a week ago, plus the footer is probably 2' below grade... Maybe I could combine a gal steel pipe set in the masonry with sphere's bracket... That would be SOLID...
Think I'm stopping by blowes tomorrow on the way to work....
Matt,
Here's how I've done it. I build the rail assembly and seal the bottom of the post. Then I get the biggest galvanized lag bolt I can find and screw it into the center of bottom of the post, leaving about 6-in. sticking out. Next, I thread a post bottom (such as is often used for porch posts) over the lag bolt and and nail it on.
After boring a hole in the bricks, I dry-fit the assembly to make sure everything fits. When I'm satisfied with the fit, I fill the hole with either an epoxy (I've used Rawl 2-part expoxy) or anchor cement. I push the bolt end of the assembly into the hole and brace it plumb. I use a strip of wood clamped to a 12-in. block to brace it.
Time is of the essence, especially if you use the anchor cement. Make sure you have everything ready before you mix the cement.
I've had very satisfactory results using this method.
Lots of good ideas here....
John:
For a hole that big do you think I would be better off having the masons set a pipe in the masonry, or would I be better off to bore the hole after the masonry is fully set up. I've had problems with masonry cracking with the later method... I do have a nice rotary hammer that would be up to the boring task....
You said: >> Next, I thread a post bottom (such as is often used for porch posts) over the lag bolt and and nail it on. << Don't quite follow ya... you mean like a sheet metal post bracket something like this?
What recommendations do you have for techniques (etc) for drilling masonry with out cracking it or having other problems. I've done it a number of times in the past but gotten mixed results - corner brick comes off, block breaks up around drilled hole, drill into masonry and get a firm drilled hole for the first few inches and then hit air, etc.
For example: I've always drilled the mortar joints when possible - is that the best way to go. For a large hole - say 3/4" is it better to drill with a small bit and then come back with the full sized bit, etc? Should I have the masons install "solids" on these few corner bricks where I where I know I'll be drilling?
Edited 5/18/2008 8:26 am ET by Matt
Matt,
Here's what I've used. The lag bolt threads through the hole.
http://www.vintagewoodworks.com/basmounbloca.html
For an exising brick staircase you need to bore a hole about 2-in. in diameter. You can also leave an opening in the brick as you lay it.
The attached photos show how I did it on a brick staircase I recently rebuilt here in Durham. The original rail was still good and I reused it. Using the wood post with the lag bolt in the bottom is basically the same thing.