I hop0e this belongs in General Discussion:
I have to replace a kitchen sink faucet. It has been leaking – at the juncture where the goose neck tube meets the section on the sink – its a swivle faucet. Anyway the sink itself is a 12″ deep double sink. Do I need to take the sink out and turn it over to get the old faucet off and replace the new? Any brand names that are goose neck and will not fail like this one did in 5 years?
Thanks, Mike
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Replies
Some of the faucet companies offer replacement orings for the base of the spout.
If the rest of the faucet is working ok might it might save you some hassel.
If you take the sink out, then replacing the faucet is a lot easier, but overall you will have done a lot more work.
Buy the new faucet, read the instructions on how that one is installed, then...
You need to get under the cabinet and look up at the underside of the back of the sink with a flashlight. You should be able to figure out what you need to do to remove the old faucet from what you know about installing the new.
It wouldn't hurt to buy a faucet wrench when you buy the faucet.
There are several good brands. Delta, Moen and Kohler are good. Generally, as long as it's a brand name that you have heard of that is NOT Price Pfister or the brand that you have now!
Rich Beckman
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Thanks Rich. I would like to avoid taking out the sink - but - the clearance between the sink bowl and the wall is very small. I believe the brand name of the current faucet is Moen. I have heard they are very reliable but maybe mine is an exception?Mike
"I believe the brand name of the current faucet is Moen. I have heard they are very reliable but maybe mine is an exception?"
Moen makes a good product. "Reliable" does not = forever.
You very likely do not need to replace the whole fixture to fix a leak at the neck -- Probably only need to loosen the nut at the base of the neck and pop on a new O ring. (Use plumber's grease. It'll go on easier and last longer.) That's a 5-minute job. Even if you need to buy a replacement neck because it has gotten worn or bent, it'll be a lot easier than replacing the fixture. Certainly worth trying before tearing apart the whole sink and/or fixture.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Moen will send you the parts to repair your faucet. Try to find a Moen faucet like or similar to yours at a store and look at the repair sheet or Google Moen and look for yours online. The leak is due to a worn O-ring. Call Moen's 800 number and they will send you the part to honor their lifetime warranty. They have been berry berry good to me. Only exception was a piece that they nolonger made in a color I needed.
I have long been a Moen fan. I purchased one from a Lowes a few years ago. I usually get my plumbing supplies from a hardware supply outfit but I was traveling and ran across a Lowes and dropped in. The faucet was about ten dollars less expensive than my usually supplier and I bought it. I installed it and it was fine, fine for four years and then drip... drip... When I called Moen for a replacement cartridge I was asked where I bought it - they didn't care about model number. I didn't remember until I was asked "Did you get it at Lowes?"
"Oh, yeah, I did!" I was sent the plastic cartridge for the Lowes version, as opposed to the brass one that I normally need/require/get.
Three years ago I installed a Price Pfister designer faucet in a bathroom that gets better than average use. It still has a smooth feel, no problems and the lady of the house loves it. It came from the plumbing supplier, not a big box.
Just my experiences, your results obviously vary.
AFAIK, the standard cartridge in all Moen faucets is now plastic. To me the plastic unit seems better-designed, and the rubber O rings wear about the same either way.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Every so often I remove a pre-war (WW II) faucet that someone tires of or it actually has finally worn out. Every five to ten years new washers, maybe packing and dress the seat. I doubt much of what we are putting in today will last 60+ years - even the brass ones.
I think you misremember. The old washer-style faucets required new washers at least every five years, and if allowed to drip for very long would require new seats as well. Even a cheap single-handle faucet will generally go ten years without service. We have two (cheapo) Valley bathroom faucets that are 30 years old, have had new seals once, don't drip.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Yes, everything did seem better before, including my memory! But when a family of eight (Mom, Pop, kids, occasional grandparent, aunt, etc...) lived in a house with one bathroom the faucets got a pretty good workout. Today, families tend to be smaller and houses have multiple bathrooms.
I remember being the washer replacerperson in our house starting when I was about 10. My dad could do it, but was always too busy. Just a household of five, but there was always a dripping faucet somewhere.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
(The old faucets actually did better if used with some regularity, since the constant wear kept the seats smooth. Fiber washers lasted a long time but were hard to shut off completely, while neoprene worked easily but didn't wear very well, especially on a slightly rough seat.)
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I was about twelve when the old man taught me how to service the taps. I will NEVER forget his instructions about dressing seats. He just wanted them "touched-up a bit - don't take them down too much!" I about had a heart attack when my buddy's father replaced his seats - he never dressed his, if the old seats were rough, new seats went in. Wow, such extravagance. My pop was frugal. He had a blow-out on a tire. I broke it down and he glued a piece of leather on the inside of the tire over the gaping hole. He cut the stiff top off of an old army boot that could no longer be sewn to the sole because they were just plain worn out. He only got two weeks on it - no freeways then. For what we had invested in rubber cement, and the patches for the innertube he could probably have gotten another used tire. His lessons have stayed with me over the years, although I do NOT try to patch blownout tires.
Thanks everyone for you advice and help. I actually have the wrench you mention. So my next step is to crawl under the sink and contort myself to fix the problem. But a new wrinkle: I THOUGHT the faucet was a Moen. I called my Ex who at one time picked out all of our remodel stuff to see if it was. No cooperation there. The sink is an American Standard, the disposal is a huge 90 horse unit (kidding - but it is very big and expensive) and the diswasher is a silent Bosch? So I just guesses it was a good faucet. Where would I find the name? Is it on the underside of the faucet? I looked everywhere last night. The screen/airerator are all gone replaced by a water purifier system.Thanks, Mike
Most single-handle units you can identify by appearance -- go look at the display at your hardware store. Also, different brands will operate a little differently. Eg, Valley and Delta often force the handle to center when you turn it off, while Moen doesn't.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Thanks - the handle is not forced to the center when shut-off. I;ll try the internet and see if I can find any pictures.Mike
I tend to like the plastic cartridges better, too, but they're not without their problems. On Sunday, my last two emergency calls were homeowners who tried to change plastic Moen cartridges themselves and broke them off inside the valve body. That's the sort of thing that turns my Sundays into 11 hour days. ;>}
I'm guessing they didn't read the instructions.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Lee (and Davis...and Jon...!!)Yes, it is a personal prejudice against Price Pfister. I installed three in a row that the customer immediately declared to be unacceptable. All three had almost no flow. Took forever to fill a glass. Now I've had people mention that there is a part that restricts flow and that it can be removed. But there was nothing in the instructions about such a part and Price Pfister was not helpful on the phone.In all three cases, I had to install a replacement faucet of another brand and then things were fine. Yes, all three Price Pfister faucets were from Lowes or Home Depot. But I've installed plenty of faucets that were from Lowes/Home Depot that have not had a problem.
And I agree with many above that if the original poster's faucet is a Moen, repair should definitely be investigated before replacement is considered.
Rich BeckmanThis signature line intentionally left blank.
Rich,
Just out of curosity, why are all plumbers so against Price Pfister? I am a builder and I have a client that picked out Price and my plumber let me know that he will install them but will NOT service them period. His words were, "my warranty on those ends the day the box shows up on the jobsite". Is this true that all plumbers hate Price and should we (builders) really be discouraging our customers to choose something other than Price?
Interested in all responses.
I think everyone has their prejudices. To me (DIYer), they just seem overpriced (and over-advertised). And not generally a style that I or my wife cares for.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I am not a plumber, nor do i play one on TV. But as a DIY that has done a few baths and a kitchen and previously bought Price Fister i will NEVER AGAIN buy their junk.
They give a lifetime replacement warranty, which is great if you want to do your own work over every 3-5 years, and since you dont pay yourself, it doesnt cost a thing!!!
i've been burned by their stuff and would reccomend against it. I can see why a plumber would not want to handle their stuff, the replacement might not caost $ but the time certainly does!!
Chicago, Kohler, American Standard etc.
I've used several different Price Pfister pfaucets. I haven't had any problems. I do have a leaky Delta kitchen faucet (5 years old), and have had to replace several parts on Moen shower fixtures. So each has their problems.
5 Year old Moen deserves a shot at being repaired.
Before you repair the current one (or replace it)TURN OFF THE WATER TO THE FAUCET. The two valves below the sink or all the water to the house at the meter.
As far as removing the sink to replace a faucet; It does make replacing the faucet a snap but you still have to play contortionist to reinstall the sink. I'd try getting the faucet out and leave the sink in place.
A basin wrench is very helpful here. You just have to get the head flipped the right direction to get it to bite the nut being removed or tightened.
Don't be afraid to remove the P-trap and cabinet doors, it will help you maneuver under there.
Don't forget: TURN OFF THE WATER TO THE FAUCET.
I had to replace my 10 year old Moen faucet a few month ago. I called the Moen 800 number and they sent me a new one for the cost of S&H as the old one was no longer being made.
As for the installation, well my faucet only had one mount. It was easy to get at and I did the install myself. It took lest than an hour and I'm not plumber. I have the usual base cabinet with the wood style in the middle and the myriad pipes and garbage disposer that always gets in the way.
Only thing is that when I had the original installed I used the stainless flex tubing to connect the hot and cold water to the facet. That made the new install a lot easier.
For many faucets (especially older ones) a basin wrench is close to being a must:
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I just replaced one without my basin wrench with me: hitting the large capture nut with some heater from my torch for a few seconds did the trick.
With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord; I will praise Him in the midst of the throng. For He stands at the right hand of the needy, to save them from those who would condemn them to death.
- Psalms 109:30-31
First off, as has been said, if the faucet is OK otherwise, have a go at installing new O rings.
Generally, installing a new faucet is easier than getting the old one off. Neither SHOULD require removing the sink, but special tools such as a basin wrench may come in handy (though I've never personally found a situation where a basin wrench did any good). Often the handiest tool for removal is a hacksaw or disk grinder, or anything else that can help separate the top of the faucet from the bottom.
Of course, clearing out the litter of cleaning products and bug sprays under the sink WILL be required. Best to just pick up some boxes or plastic tubs in advance for this, vs trying to shove them around to make space, or setting them all on the counter. While you're at it, vacuum out the area, or "damp mop", to get up the crud that's accumulated (and keep it out of your hair). Do this all in advance, before you pick up a wrench.
While removing the sink is probably unnecessary, in some cases it may pay to remove the garbage disposal. Most come out fairly easily, with a lock ring holding them to the sink (use the S-shaped disposal wrench stuck into one of the rolled teeth to turn this) and hand-tightened fittings to the drain line.
For basic faucets, you get about what you pay for. The first name brand above the no-names is probably Delta, which is generally a hair better than contractor-grade no-names. Next would be Moen, probably, and then some of the others like American Standard, Kohler, etc. Keep in mind that the brands that are heavily advertised have to charge more for the advertising. Within these brands there is often a range, based both on appearance and quality/durability.
Edited 3/19/2007 12:07 pm by DanH
Since it's a Moen , the Moen part no. is 117 spout O-ring kit. Some times these can be found at lowes or other box stores. The list price is $4.28 good luck, and use the lube on your O-rings.
No, not THAT lube!
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Try a basin wrench. They're a little cumbersome but they work it tight spots.