Anyone else out there have trouble with interior (wood) snap-in grilles for double hung windows? My seem warped and won’t stay in. I tried the pancake nethod to flatten them- no go. Andersen is claiming that they have had only one or two instances-alltwenty of mine refuse to stay in. Please advise as to your experience.
Thanks Big Foot
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Replies
good post. frequently tech people say:
you are the only person who ever said that.
I have one bad grill out of the twenty I've gotten so far for my double hung. On the other hand I went thru 4 grills for my gothic arch window before I was finally able to get one that evan came close to fitting. I shouldn't accept it because it's a good 3/8ths of an inch too short but it's the best one so far and well I let them beat me..
i've never met a snap in that I didn't love to hate
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
If there isnt anything I dont hate more'n snap in grills in andersons......is snap in grills. I hate everyone I put in...yet Andersons are the best fer the money IMHO
Be hateful of every snap in grill we have to bend and ..........grrrrrrrr....meditate, it helps
Namaste
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
It is so easy to order factory applied muntins that I am suprised to learn that you can get snap ins from Andersen. I've got Weather shields in my house and ended up throwing all the snap ins away after three years. I think that was $17 a pop..
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
Just a thought.....Next time yer on the island( the long one) give me call ahead of time.....a few daze in advance.........tix to some conecerts right here and a nice breakfast and dinner. Might just be interesting. My wife bought tix for the Everly Brothers when I asked for the Isly Brothers.....
Be well bro
Namaste
andrew
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I'm keeping that in memory. It's been over thirty years since I walked that long island.
BTW, The original name of my island was Long Island. They changed it because there were three Long Islands in Maine and every one was confused. .
Excellence is its own reward!
I never realized Andersen made wood grills for double hung. I've had them for special units like circle and arched top windows but always used the polycarbonate grills for double hung units and never had a problem. What is the part # for these wood grills I would like to do some more research.
__________________________________________
One or two instances ? I guess they were the two 5' x 5' custom grilles that they made for my job about two years ago. We attempted to install them in the home of our company owner's best friend in his new Andersen windows. The owner's wife tried to install the first one and snapped it. Just after our painter had stained one side and painted the other. The Andersen rep still hasn't installed the two new ones that Andersen custom made.
carpenter in transition
Are these on the 200 Series TiltWash windows? If so, the grills on those are garbage. We all but refuse to sell them. On all their other DH lines, problems are very, very rare.
Al
Removable grilles on a tilt wash window is a problem waiting to happen, it's best to go finelite.If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Agreed. Although my personal preference is real TDL or SDL, a good GBG system is fine for most uses. Andersen's use of a goofy little clip on 200TW's to hold grills in place drew good laughter at the dealer's rollout meeting I went to for the product.
Al
Just my opinion here, but Anderson's are the most overpriced POS windows out there. I'm not a real fan of pella either, but I'll take em over anderson any day. I am a fan of Peachtree.
Don
Don,
My sister had the opposite experiance with Pella. she's real unhappy with those she got and in the middle of her house switched to Andersen. She hated the fact that Pella ships the flanges seperate from the windows while Andersen has them in the window when they arrive..
In addition the Pellal's came dirty as stink with goo and stuff all over the window and frame. they spent an average of 40 minutes per window cleaning prior to installation. Every Andersen I've ever gotten was ready to install.. (except the gothic arch window that required the flanges to be installed) None of them were dirty or needed any time spent in prepping them..
Peachtree isn't a window we use here in Minnesota.
Frenchy,
Wow, just helped a friend put in 11 pella casements in his mothers house 2 weeks ago. The flanges were attached. I've used pella doors before, and had to snap the flanges in. All this aside, I'm no great fan of pella either, and I really don't like their warehouse distribution network, or the way they renamerenumber the same windows for sales in box stores.
As for the Anderson, I have never seen cladding on one I was happy with, and I've seen some interior wood that should have never been used on windows at those prices.
Don
Marvin windows is a non starter as far as I'm concerned. Their treatment of unhappy customers will prevent them from ever being selected for my home..
They admitted they had a problem, They blamed it on their suppier. and allowed customers a modest discount towards future purchases..
To get that modest discount they needed to hire a lawyer who took them to court..
Now I admit that I am a fan of Andersen and maybe should disclose all before futher comment.
I've sold equipment to Andersen . I found them a very demanding (but fair) customer who sought value over price. Any statement I made was asked to be provided in print and challenged. If I claimed a certain forklift would turn in such and such a radius they measured it.. If I claimed a particular battery would last X operating hours they required I prove it..
Replacement parts were price checked and service history was examined carefully..
In short they were the most professional buyer of equipment I've dealt with.. To take that level of dedication rather then do as many companies do (Low price wins) is an admirable trait and reflected well on their company.
In addition I really love the way they treat their employees.. They listen to them and if an idea is incorporated they reward the person with a bonus based on the value of the idea.. some ideas are worth tens of thousands of dollars..
It's not unheard of that a forklift operator will make over $100,000 dollars in a year based on productivety and contributions (ideas)
they have first rate medical dental and other employee benefits.. They tend to promote from within and are willing to invest in their employees..
Now commercial over,
I've got a wall full of fogged up windows looking out over the lake. they've made several mistakes and some of their products are not real quality..
The rest of the windows I buy will all be Andersen's
PS It's Andersen not Anderson..
They are very proud of being Danish not Swedish..
Sorry for the misspelling. Hope you're reference to Marvin is generic and not to me. Can't tell you anything about them. As for Andersen, they are not a bad window, I just don't think they are worth the money they charge. My preference was Peachtree for that price range.
Don
Don,
Is Andersen worth the money? Well they aren't the cheapest. nor are they the most expensive. They are kinda the Chevy/ Ford/ Dodge of windows. Because of the discount they sell at , typically 40% off list, compared to other brands they are a deal..
don, don,don.... peachtree is on the list of windows that leak near the ocean...
andersens don't..
pella sucks, marvin sucks, andersen is great . if you want custom.. try Kolbe & KolbeMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Hey Mike...Andersen just bought KML.....custom windows!
New KML By Andersen™ Architectural Windows and Doors Offer Custom Shapes, Sizes and Options for Endless Possibilities
Note: Check below for possible associated photos and/or background information on this topic.
BAYPORT, Minn. (May 9, 2002) — Andersen Windows, Inc. has expanded its broad selection of windows and patio doors with the introduction of KML by Andersen™ architectural windows and doors. The new line offers custom shapes, sizes, options and performance features not readily available from most manufacturers. “KML by Andersen products beautifully complement the Andersen¯ product line, providing nearly limitless options for a wide variety of projects,” said Phil Donaldson, vice president of marketing and business development at Andersen. “An architect can combine enduring Andersen 400 Series or 200 Series windows and patio doors with custom KML by Andersen windows and doors to create the signature features that make a distinctive architectural statement for a home or building project.” The KML by Andersen product line features unique windows, doors and entranceways that are designed, engineered and constructed to suit the exact needs of customers. By combining the highest standards of quality and service with a virtually endless array of shapes, sizes and custom options, Andersen offers one of the most extensive window and door product selections available.
KML by Andersen™ Complementary Window Styles
Following the acquisition of Canadian-based KML Windows, Inc., in 2001, Andersen worked closely with its new subsidiary to integrate its offerings with Andersen’s existing product lines. KML by Andersen™ architectural windows and patio doors that complement current Andersen¯ products are featured in a new catalog available from Andersen distributors nationwide. Highlights include:
Casement Windows – To complement the Andersen 400 Series casement line, KML by Andersen offers archtop casements (a rectangular window with a slight arch at the top), Springline™ casement windows (a fully rounded top), French casements and archtop French casements (hinged on the sides to open to the exterior, with no center mull post), and custom- size casement windows that can be designed to fit nearly any opening.
Double-Hung Windows – To complement the Andersen 400 Series line, KML by Andersen offers single and twin archtop double-hung windows, Springline single-hungs, monumental- sized double- and single-hung windows, and custom-size double-hung windows.
Specialty Windows – To complement Andersen 400 Series products, specialty windows include fixed archtop and Springline windows with radius Finelight™ grilles-between-the-glass, octagon (eight-sided) windows, and variety of curved pine and oak interior casings.
French Patio Doors – To complement Andersen 400 Series Frenchwood¯ patio doors, KML by Andersen offers both archtop and Springline French doors and sidelights.
Specialty & Fixed Windows – To complement the reliable, affordable Andersen 200 Series product line, KML by Andersen offers Circle Top™, transom and picture windows.
KML by Andersen Complementary Window Options
KML by Andersen offers a host of standard window features and options that complement Andersen 400 Series and 200 Series products. The low-maintenance exterior cladding is offered in standard colors white, sandtone, Terratone¯, and forest green. On the interior, finish choices include clear pine, primed for painting, or prefinished white. KML by Andersen windows and doors offer grille selections that match the divided light, removable interior grille, and Finelight grilles-between-the-glass options offered by Andersen. Window hardware for complementary KML by Andersen products comes in polished brass, white and clay (a close match to Andersen’s stone hardware). French patio door hardware is available in polished brass, satin chrome, antique brass, white, dark bronze and pewter.
Additional KML by Andersen™ Product Offerings
In addition to the KML by Andersen products that complement Andersen’s current product line, KML by Andersen offers a virtually limitless selection of custom windows and doors. These include:
A wide range of window and door wood species – including pine, oak, mahogany and cherry – to complement any interior décor.
Endless custom color options to harmonize with a home or building’s exterior environment.
Rugged impact-resistant products to help safeguard against severe weather in coastal areas.
Custom-shaped windows and doors that bring architecturally inspired creations to life.
Elegant entranceways featuring unique shapes and sidelight and transom combinations.
Commercial windows and doors — including an ADA-compliant door and monumental double- hung windows -- that combine performance with beauty for multi-family and institutional projects.
Availability/Warranty
KML by Andersen products are available from select Andersen dealers and distributors nationwide. All KML by Andersen products are backed by a 20/10 year limited warranty that is non-prorated and fully transferable. For more information about KML by Andersen products and the limited warranty, please check with your local Andersen dealer or distributor. The Andersen¯ brand is the most recognized and most used brand in the window and patio door industry. For a local dealer, more information, or a copy of the Andersen 20/10 limited warranty, visit http://www.andersenwindows.com or call 1-800-426-4261, ext. 1232.
The Andersen¯ brand is the most recognized and most used brand in the window and patio door industry. For a local dealer, more information, or a copy of the Andersen 20/10 limited warranty, visit http://www.andersenwindows.com or call 1-800-426-4261, ext. 1232.
Mike,
Never heard that, and I've never had that problem. Of course I don't live anywhere near an ocean! ;^)
Frenchy,
The local yard that deals in Andersens has that once a month "truckload" sale. Without that 40%, the windows are way, way overpriced. Also, if you don't catch the sale just right, you can be waiting 2 months for your windows.
Don
don.. my lumber yard is one of Andersen's "preferred quality " dealers or what ever they call it..
anyways.. factory pricing with 6 week lead time for anything is the norm..
the truckload price is good but my normal price ain't bad either..
and i can get any option including factory finished interior in 6 weeks .. for real.. not the marvin 5- week- turns into 8 week deal..
and most of the stock items i can get in 3 days at contractor's pricingMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Maybe it's a dealeryard thing, but after the 40% here, the price of the windows is still 10-20% above a comparable pella. That means for every $100 you put into a pella, the base price comprable from Andersen is $150 to $160. Sorry but I just don't see where Andersen has that much over pella. Again, I'm no fan of pella, but I have never waited more then 2 weeks, and that includes special order windows. Also, the local Andersen yard does not carry the windows in stock. You have to wait for that monthly truck. I'd guess that's what the 40% is all about. They have no inventory overhead, and everything that comes in is already paid for.
Don
don... i really like one stop shopping... and i never like the pella concept of a "window store".. my outside salesman.. and my inside salesman.. and their factory trained service guy are all pretty up on their whole product line... windows , doors , lumber.. you name it.. i buy everything but my roofs from these guys..
another thing about our area.. the yards can pick and choose between two major distributors for Andersen.. id one drops the ball, they'll move their account to the other one
and the lumber yard competition is just as quick and just as professional.. we've got some great yards here.. and they service the hell out of their contractors... to reduce the temptation to deal with the HD's & LowesMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
By golly, I've got the opposite take on Pella. It's been four years since I bought any of theirs - for good reason. Every order I nade with them was late, messed up, low quality millwork, etc.
The worst was a picture casement combo in a fine home. For some reason they managed to forget the large glass picture sash. I got the flanking casements, the transoms, the picture frame - but no sash. The owners were moved in with draperies hung and my staging sitting outside and plastic over the hole while we waited for their truck.
Not a nice situation for them to put me in. Next archy who speced Pella got an earful and changed his mind.
One thing about the business model of Pella that is good though, unless they changed it. The bonus for all of their people in a geographic area each pay period is dependent on no customer complaints to the home factory. One valid complaint screws everybody out of their bonuses. That is intended to make them all work together without passing the buck. I don't know what happens when it is the factories fault though, which is generally the proiblem in my experiences with them.
Andersen has more of an open "We will fix it" attitude and fewer messups to start with.
But my favorite windows are Weathershield or Norco or Marvin, depending on the circumstances. I'm still awaiting the right chance to try Kolbe`.
Excellence is its own reward!
Happy fathers day Piffin,
Let me reiterate, I'm not a fan of pella either. Dimes for dollars though when comparing Andersen to Pella though, I will go with the Pella. I have yet to see where the extra $$ is justified by Andersen.
As for horror stories from manufacturers, I willing to bet we could start a new discussion on this one where no manufacturer will be teflon coated. I have been fortunate with pella, being immune to the type of screwups you outlined experiencing. Worst I've expereinced was things like cranks in the wrong finish. All stuff that was handled locally.
The last local, full service yard around here does carry Weathershield, but I've never used them. The local "stain and trim" place deal with Peachtree, so for me it's killing two birds with one stone, and I've had no complaints with the Peachtree...especially for the price. Their metal clad, solid extrerior doors are a little pricey, but not ridiculous. Besides, doors and windows are a bit out of my line of work, so I'm sure not a "connisuer" of windows and doors to have much more then an opinon based on limited experience.
Don
One thing that makes it hard to do this comp;arison is that Pella and Andersen are two different kinds of window and of company. As a general rule, Pellas work out to be more expensive for me than Andersens do.
And you're right that they all make mistakes..
Excellence is its own reward!
I remember using aftermarket wood grilles in a home where I installed all Andersen windows including a 5'x 5' picture window. What I remember was that all the grilles had a perimeter frame around them and installed with round headed pins. The only install using wood grilles that went smooth and looked good.
Now, if only I could remember the name of the company that made the grilles, I could be of more help!!!!!
to put it in comparison, what would the window business be like if a Japanese company was running it, ie what would their business and quality model be?
what would they do differently?
quicker delivery?
easier, clearer ordering?
stronger windows?
less parts to field asemble?
Edited 6/16/2003 10:48:31 AM ET by wain
One of the big reasons that I did not choose Andersen or Pella on my new home construction project (75 windows) was because their grill systems are clearly inferior. It only took one trip to HD to see just how well their grills would hold up. And quite frankly, why would I pay $20,000 for a product that I can clearly see if crap every day that I live in my house. As far as I'm concerned, the grills are an integral part of the function of the window. And in this case of crappy grills, it would be like buying a car that had crooked wheels and the manufacturer saying, "well that's what we make and nobody else complains.... we make the best cars on the market".
I am currently living in a house with Crestline windows (while I am building my house) that are about 10 years old. They were the top model when purchased and have simulated divided lights. They have been fantastic windows in every way. So when it came to my project I went out to check out Crestline as well as all of the window people and their products. Crestline has just gone through a redesign and I think their window is simply equal or superior to either Andersen (400) or Pella (Proline) (and they also came in at a better price). Two things that stood out for me on the windows were:
The removable grills are made with a full perimeter frame and are almost hard to get in and out because they "fix" so well in the window sash.
The windows are made with an extruded aluminum cladding on the outside which includes a rigid mounting flange. To me, this is far superior to the Pella fold out nonsense.
Now I'm not saying that these are the best windows ever made. They are not. Weathershield and Marvin are two that come to mind who compete for the higher end market. But in this price arena (including Pella Proline and Andersen 400), the Crestline is just a better all around deal in my opinion
I hope you don't mind the rant
Rob Kress
I absolutely can not believe all this. I have looked in FHB and TOH and Bob's show and all the windows go in really fine and look just great. They go in so well that you almost think the article was a cut and paste from the manufacturer literature.
But really these are "the best" windows
what gives????????
Not to worry about the rant bud. Anyone that builds a house with 75 windows, wants grills and doesn't go GBG can't be right, so rant on brother.
And comparing to weathershield ( I got them) tipped me off. They are the biggest pile of BS going in the window industry. Started with major malfunctions after 3 years and suprise, surpise all were pro-rated or non-warrenty issues. Never once did they supply a name or number of anyone who was trained to repair their windows. I know more about their windows from fixing my own, then the numb nut in customer service. I have had fogged glass, broken balances, broken tilt shoes, foam jamb liner turning to dust. Don't get me started on Weathershield cause I could rant on them till the cows come home.
Call Andersens 800 number even if you don't have their windows and I'll bet they give you a name and number of someone in your area who can help you with the POS windows you bought. Unfortunatley the help you get may be "you should have bought Andersen" .
There is a big difference between customer service and customer self service.
Bawahahahahahah!!!!!!!!
_____________________________________________________________If you were arrested for being a quality builder would there be enough evidence to convict you?
Andersen's customer service is incredible. As well as most companies, they have their problems.....it's how they deal with those problems that makes the difference. Andersen is a quality product......they have their high end 400 series...and their low end 200 series. If you want grilles GBG is the way to go. Andersen now has High Definition grilles that adhere to the glass....they look awesome. Snap in grilles are a pain and I wouldn't recommend them in any instance.
jocobe
IMHO - Weathershield is doggy doodoo
Edited 6/12/2003 11:15:57 PM ET by JOCOBE
rob , weathershield is a company run by idiots... i've been plagued by them since 1980.... their product sucks, their distribution sucks , their warranty sucks.. and their design sucks... other than that... they have good magazine ads..
now.. when owners ask me to work on their weathershield windows, i refuse...
i'll let you know how we do with our latest Marvin adventure...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
BTW....... given the choice... all my windows will be Andersen...consistently good quality, great distribution, great warranty, don't leak... don't fail.. great hardware..
don't lie about delivery schedules... can accomodate most wishes...truly a one-decision product
i've built with Crestline, weathershield, pella, pozzi, marvin, hurd, Kolbe & Kolbe, peachtree, and andersen...hurd, kolbe & andersen let me sleep at nightMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
snap-in grills are a product doomed to failure... especially wooden grills..
the vinyl snap-ins are a little more reliable... but the Grills Between Glass are really nice..
and if you have a deep-pocket customer.. the simulated true divided lights are pretty classy
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
If anyone is interested, I've got 38 pristine unused natural maple grilles still in boxes.