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Faux stone porch post bases

Merty | Posted in General Discussion on April 30, 2007 12:32pm

Will be building a porch as part of new construction this summer that will have two large posts supporting a portion of the roof. What’s the best way to make a base that will be veneered with cement pretend stones? (Ironic, we take stones and grind them up to make cement and glue them back together to become stones again.) There will be a poured foundation for these, 16″ square or so. The bases will continue approx 42″ above these foundations. Is it best to make a box of PT ply or lay up cement block or what? How do you make a transition to grade? Living in Minn I’m guessing we may see some frost come winter.

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  1. User avater
    Matt | Apr 30, 2007 06:46am | #1

    I'm having a little trouble getting a visual... Are you saying that the porch floor is raised about 42"?  None the less, I'd recommend structural masonry as a substrate for the faux stone.  I have done it by building boxes of PT plywood, but that was for above grade application and the PT actually just wrapped the masonry core to make the finished size a little bigger.

    The PT would get tarpaper, lath and a scratch coat, whereas the masonry just gets a scratch coat, so the solid masonry saves some steps.

    BTW - you said: >>  There will be a poured foundation for these, 16" square or so. <<  Are you saying the foundation or the column bases are 16" square?  If the finished size of the column bases are to be 16" square you may not be able to use block because of the sizes commonly available - you may need to go with brick.  One other thing about faux stone - it needs to be capped with something other than the faux stone - like maybe cement caps or natural stone.  Again though, I don't really understand exactly what your project is.

    Also though, we don't have the harsh freezing weather that you-all do.  If you don't want the faux stone to come all the way down to grade you could use split faced block for a base and then stone above that.  So if the finished pier was to be 16" x 16" then maybe a 16"x16"x8" tall pier base would be made from 2 split faced blocks and then above that would be maybe 12"x12" brick columns that were faced with the faux stone.  Split faced block come in a few different colors including tan and gray to name a few.

    1. Stilletto | Apr 30, 2007 01:39pm | #2

      You aren't the only one that is confused about his post.   I read it twice yesterday trying to figure out what he was doing.  

      For cultured stone post bases we used chimney block.   The ones that have the flue hole through the centers.   They are heavier but alot faster than laying individual blocks. 

      THen add your stone veneer,  then a natural stone cap.  And usually a tapered column from the cap to the beam of the porch. 

      "If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball."  Patches O'Hoolihan

      Edited 4/30/2007 6:40 am ET by Stilletto

      1. User avater
        Matt | Apr 30, 2007 02:01pm | #3

        Interesting... What sizes do chimney block commonly come in?  I guess if it were going to actually be used as a chimney it would still need a flue liner?

      2. Merty | Apr 30, 2007 03:25pm | #6

        Stilletto-- The chimney block sounds like a great idea. What sort of dimensions do you look at for the foundation below the block?

        1. dedubya | Apr 30, 2007 04:24pm | #8

          Mert , I concur on the chimney block,I use them on any applacation where I need a 2'X2' post or colume =16" support colume with 4" veneer on each side , If below grade I use a 2'x2'x12" footing ,with .5" rebar stubbed out of the footing , and the hollow flu hole  core filled with concete. This size makes good driveway/ walkway enterance posts or corner posts but may be to massive for a porch post  usally around 12"x12" is what size looks good on a porch since most faux stone ranges in thickness from .75" to 2.5" for porch colums I usally just lay a 8x8" or a12x12" colume out of cull brick and reface with the stone again using rebar to pin it to the footer or base,after the applacation of the stone that gives a finished deminstion of about 13x13" or 15x15" posts.

        2. Stilletto | Apr 30, 2007 07:35pm | #9

          Your footing depends on the roof load above the porch.  I like twice the size of the block.  But that doesn't always work,  it depends on how many posts will be supporting the porch. 

          Footings can be a little smaller with more posts.    

          "If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball."  Patches O'Hoolihan

    2. Merty | Apr 30, 2007 03:23pm | #5

      Sorry it wasn't clearer. Thanks for taking the time to decipher it.The porch floor itself will be about 16" above grade and the post bases will extend above floor another 36". I was envisioning bringing the structural posts all the way from the rafters / beams down to the top of the post foundation. I'd then build a box around the lower section of the post for the stone facing. Sounds like your experience says to bring concrete block all the way up to height of the base and start the posts on top of that.

  2. User avater
    jhausch | Apr 30, 2007 03:21pm | #4

    I took the block route (or should I say "am taking").  Used (using) 6" block.  I don't like the idea of sticking the thin veneer stone to ply and lathe.  Also did not want to go through the work of making boxes around sonotubes when blocks give me square right away.

    However, with 16" square footings, I think the only way you'll make them square is with (2) 8' jamb blocks side by side.  Now you'll need at least 20" square footings.

    Side story.  I told the flatwork guys to toss any remaining crete and clean the chutes into the columns.  Someone mis-calculated the crete needed and there was enough left over to fill them.  I feel sorry for the poor guy who decides to later remove my columns. 

    You have to go back in the archives to see the current state of the columns, but there are some pics on the blog.

    http://jhausch.blogspot.com
    Adventures in Home Building
    An online journal covering the preparation and construction of our new home.
    1. Merty | Apr 30, 2007 03:37pm | #7

      Thanks for the reply and the re. to your blog. I will have to take some more time and read your blog more thoroughly. Looks like what I hope my summer will become. Hoping to break ground this week and get the footings in.

  3. User avater
    Matt | May 01, 2007 01:50am | #10

    OK - so you are doing 1/2 high craftsman style columns.... And I'm assuming the upper part of the column, weather round or square are to have some taper on them.

    For the bottom half of the columns 12"x12" with 14"x14" caps on the lower 1/2 are rather minimal looking and about right for starter homes.  For more upscale homes 16"x16" with 18"x18" caps are about right.  If you need pics let me know.

    Here is the rub though: I don't know how many plans I have seen where the size of the porch posts wern't taken into account.  What I mean by that is that often the relationship between the porch beam and the footers & foundation is not correct such that the top of the columns land squarely underneath the porch beam.   I guess they call that a field adjustment - which means that either the beam needs to be moved in during framing, or the footers and foundation need to be moved out during footer & foundation time - or even both beam and footers moved.  Changing the footers on the fly gets a little dicey since now adays often homes are set so tightly within their building envelope.  This problem is magnified with the craftsman style columns that are fairly large and tapered at the top.   Another thing I do is pad the inside of the beam making it 3 or 4 plys - in other words 4.5" or 6" thick, which helps, but it is kind of a waste of lumber.  Let me know if you need further explanation. 

    Also, again assuming you are talking about craftsman style columns, the architecturally correct way to build it is for the columns to be "grounded".  Look at this pic: http://architecture.about.com/od/housestyles/ig/Bungalow-Pictures/bungalow03.--32.htm  While this isn't necessarily my favorite look for the columns and porch it illustrates the grounding of the the columns rather well.  The bottom portion of the columns are carried all the way to grade.  If you flip through the images on that web site you will see other examples.

    1. Stilletto | May 01, 2007 02:21am | #11

      I always end up furring the beam out,  the plans usually call for a 2 ply beam of some sort.  Giving me 3-1/2" of beam to land my 4x post and the tapered columns that I make. 

      I make the columns out of 3/4 plywood so I add 3 plys to the inside of the beam.  That leaves a nice reveal around the top of the column. 

      I make the tops of my columns at least 4" square,  that gives a little room for play.  And if the 4x decides to twist (they do) it won't take the column with it.

       

       

       

      "If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball."  Patches O'Hoolihan

      1. User avater
        Matt | May 01, 2007 03:59am | #12

        I was thinking that on that one porch you did and posted the pic of - the one with the arches - the columns were a little more beefy than that.  None the less you obviously understand what I'm talking about with the relationship of the beam and the footers/foundation.  This stuff should be addressed in the plans though. 

        BTW - that porch looked really good...

        BTW - From an agricultural correctness point of view, visually the beam doesn't necessarily need to be as wide as the top of the columns.    For example when I googled this was the first pic I came up with.  If the pic were an actual building the capitol would likely protrude on the inside too.  Not really my favorite look, but again - OK from an architectural correctness point of view.

        Hey - here is a thought - maybe we should be using box beams...  What do you think?

        1. Stilletto | May 01, 2007 01:33pm | #13

          That porch was much different than the ones we are talking about.  The HO's brought a picture to me from a magazine and said "we want this,  make it happen." 

          I'll get some pictures today of the porch's that I built that fit the description.  If I understand correctly.  I am working next door to a few houses that I did a couple of years ago. 

          In my experience the porch details on prints can be vague at best.  Most of my porchs have frost footings,  poured walls with a slab poured on top.  Makes it very easy,  especially when you use rafters and not trusses for the roof. 

          What type of box beams are you thinking?  Studs with sheathing on each side? 

           

           

          "If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball."  Patches O'Hoolihan

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